Grand Central

Oh you're right about that. No doubt. But I think BB is just a bit too far back in time for most, now. 45 years since TIYL. Ivan's name still has a decent currency today that I would say is higher that Briggo. But It will be gone soon sadly. And will not be replaced by any other. But as Iris said ... Not even Alastair Cook is a household name. This week he was the answer at our pub quiz because of all the news around his test retirement and amazing scoring. Half the teams did not get his name right. And one put down Ian Botham.

Fair enough to all that. But the real answer to the 'Ivan Mauger question' was NO Speedway has been a household name since him. Not even remotely close. In NZ or anywhere. And never will be to be honest. To answer 'Larry Ross' just sounded ... a bit weird.

This was his quote Honestly Larry may be 'well known' in NZ but could never be called a Household name. Anywhere.

I hate to intervene in your never ending spats with Humphrey ... But surely you cannot be serious in comparing Larry's public profile with Ivans. I will assume you are just joking.

Well, your comment pushed it from 20 to 21. So I am betting a fair few more.

If the riders were truly ready to race no one would have been excluded. That is all they needed to be. It is that simple.

NOTHING NEEDS TO BE DONE just a few riders need to understand one of the fundamental.principles of the sport from down the years. Be at the tapes and be 100% ready to race when the 2 minutes expires. And you will NOT be excluded. Bugger about as it expires and you cannot have that certainty. It's your risk.

Frankly we all know that it is rare and that the riders are usually all ready at the tapes whe the two minutes expires. That is what is supposed to happen. And it works so well so much of the time it would be ridiculous for anyone to try and come up with 'different procedures' when this procredure works very well indeed in thousands of races, as you say. Any rider in Heat 16 who WAS at the start and ready to race at 0:00 was NEVER going to be excluded. That is the only lesson they should ALL learn. Especially if they have designs on being World Champion.

Except ... the referee excluded him. And him alone. So something did actually matter to the only person that mattered. I was trying to reason out just what that was from the evidence available. We can rant and rave but the exclusion will stand. Even if you think the reason the referee used was wrong. (as I do too!) But If I wanted to be World Champion I would at least 'bear that in mind'. Just in case it happened again. Having an idiot in the box has been quite a feature of this year's series. So it might quite easily.

Quite right. I personally agree. But there are many many reasons why I dont agree with a whole load of refereeing decisions. They do seem a bunch of jobsworthy idiots so much of the time. At all levels and in many ways. I am just trying to percieve the reasoning for this jobsworthy idiot in this case. I don't go for curruption. I go for nerdish pedantry on the part of these type of people. It usually explains their daftness in decisions as refereeing always seems to draw that sort of nensense out of otherwise quite sane and reasonable folk. There was a distinction observable between the postion and therefore "readiness" of the rider in white and the other three at 0:00 specifically. White is a length or so back at 0:00; he was neither 'at the tapes' nor under the starting marshalls control. Definitely NOT ready to everyone. And just at that same moment of 0:00 the others happened to be 'at the tapes under the starting marshalls control' Their readiness could be debatable. But after the thirty seconds of gardening that was quite exhaustive by all four; whoever found themselves a length or so back from the tapes at that precise moment the two minutes expired was open to having his exclusion button pressed. And at that moment it was only true of white. It just seems that the starts today with stoppages, warnings and exclusions are proving to be a a major issue at every level that is materially affecting the sporting spectacle at a time when we cannot afford it to happen at all.. And the current poor crop of referees nationally and internationally seem to be just the sort of prattish bunch to mess it up more rather than help sort it out. This is an endemic problem.

To play devil's advocate. According to the rules the critical factor for exclusion is just what the position is at the moment the two minutes expires. Not before , not after. They are to be excluded if they are not ready to race or under the control of the starting marshal at that moment only. We all know that as the clock counted down from 30 seconds all four were fannying around gardening. But as the clock ticks to 0:00 for that one or two seconds ONLY Tai is about one length back from the tapes and the other three are at the tapes (but still fidgeting). One second later Tai moved forward to join the others. But at second-zero he was the one that wasn't and that gave the ref the chance to pounce. I have a picture of the referee poised with his hand hovering over all four coloured buttons. Whoever was 'out of position' at the single moment of 0:00 was going to 'get it' and it was Tai just being a yard of two back from the tapes that gave him that opportunity. Whether he was being even handed in his approach of whether he was 'itching' to put Tai out is moot. But at second-zero Tai, inadvertently, have him the option. And he took it.

On another thread another poster has just described the bloke from Monster as 'an absolute penis of a man'. I am unsure whether this is more perception than fact. But it does seem a reasonable conclusion from the evidence.

Actually I dont see an awful lot wrong with the set up we have currently. If only it operated with a little more sporting integrity. Top 8 being needed to ensure qualification and those below that have to sweat it out for a wild card pick (or have put themselves through the qulifiers as a safety net). Top 3 from the Challenge and 4 honestly chosen wildcards is also fine. The two real flaws I can see are 1) The strange way in which the qualifers were done and dusted so early in the season this year. It has totally spolied the drama and means that some riders know that they are in for next year when this years series was only at the half way point. Daft. 2) The independent nature of the 'picks' is just bogus. Despite what some here will claim. The picking of Holder last October was a sporting disgrace. Thankfully he has not helped to hide the blushes of those who picked him with a rush of 'form' and he should be gone by the year end. Sadly reputations have been tarnished irrevocably.

Too right. It seems to have been forgotten just what a daft pick he was last year and just how many people here were arguing against it on good grounds. Only to hear of his 'surprise' pick by the totally independent FIM. No outside considerations were made, of course, it was done entirely on merit.

It's amazing that the human species survived until this point. Let alone Speedway for 90 years. It's the fatigue. It's all too much.