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orion

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Posts posted by orion


  1. On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 2:08 PM, Midland Red said:

    One advantage of those days from the past - there was little or no televised speedway, live or recorded

    So, if you wanted to watch the sport, if you wanted to see the "big name" riders, the ONLY way was to pay your shillings and pence at the turnstiles

    With a big league in operation, there was probably only one chance a season (two with a cup meeting) to see the stars when they appeared at your track

    Other sports that  are much more televised don't have a problem .. another only in speedway thing .

    • Like 1

  2. 29 minutes ago, Gemini said:

    Well it should be shouldn't it? GP once in 12 months. I'm sure if Belle Vue only rode once a year on a Saturday the place would be packed out. 

    Not if there no top riders ….put lesser riders out and no where would be packed even you did ride once a year 


  3. 23 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

    Yes & no, if Doyle was injured your team would look like this

    1. Batchelor 7.76

    2. Wajiknecht 4.08

    3. Ellis 6.76

    4. Jensen 4.51

    5. Musielak 6.41

    6. Perks 3.00

    7. Guest 3.00

    The team just gets moved around and any guests come in at reserve. I don't think it's right that straight swap guests should be used, I'm a firm believer that a result should be determined by the teams own rider's rather than a track specialist guest that actually performs better than the replaced rider. It gives the opportunity for other riders in the team to step up. Also gives another opportunity to an up and coming rider to make an impression. 

    Especially at home that team should have enough to not get beaten if they ride to their potential. 

    So if they were away not only were they be certain to lose the match the crowd would suffer as well .. The above example is why will still have guests because as  nearly every idea lacks any idea about the money side of the sport 


  4. 1 hour ago, Gemini said:

    Sorry you are confused hagonshocker. :lol: My point being that according to some we need the star riders in the UK to get attendances to rise. Keep diluting the product and more will stay away. However, that was a GP so presumably full of the so called star riders yet it was boring. 

    And ? the stadium was full what the racing is like has little to with attendances as Belle Vue  has shown us 


  5. 30 minutes ago, mikebv said:

    You are probably right...

    I can actually see Poland and Sweden adopting the system any day now now they have seen how succesful it can be...:D

    Correct ..the moment we stop using guests will be as successful as Poland and Sweden :D:D  you can see it  now fans who have stopped going will flock back once the news get's out . Clubs will have to take the phones off the hooks as the sponsors phone them up the sport will be awash with money and just like Poland with  20 ,000 purpose built staduims wlll arise just because we don't use guests :P


  6. Just now, mikebv said:

    The fact 'no one cared' is (sadly), probably the biggest clue as to the worth of the competitions...

    Unless it means something to win, then really, why bother? 

    The competitions were massive and people did care .what they never  cared about was  guests being used . 


  7. 9 minutes ago, mikebv said:

    Whilst 'guests are a necessary evil' (in Britain), then the sport (as a team concept) simply won't move forward, because it can't can it? 

    Imagine Wroclaw using Dudek to replace the injured Woffy?

    ZG fans would lynch him should he score the points for Wroclaw that prevents ZG from qualifying for the play offs..

    And Wroclaw fans would lynch him if he scored next to nothing and they didn't. ..:D

    In Poland it actually means something. To fans, media and (probably most importantly) the blue chip sponsors. 

    And if they ran a guest system it wouldn't have anywhere near the same stature, nor mean so much..

    I do though think that guests are here to stay as it's the 'easiest' way of running the sport and provides riders with extra earning potential...

    One rider once told me that 'guesting' was the cherry on the top of the icing on top of the cake...

    I think now for many riders it now just forms part of the cake, hence will carry on being part of the plan..

    imagine Cradley using a guest from Wolves or Swindon using a rider from Oxford ? it happened and no one lynch anyone or really cared . As has been said before thou guests are not ideal not one person has come up with a better and workable idea that won't effect crowds figures . 

    The uk ran a system with guests and at one time had massive stature and still meant a lot .


  8. 8 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

    Guests are a necessary evil. I've always said though that guest riders for Premiership should always be Championship riders with an average of 4.50 or less. Then that rider takes the No7 position and the others move up a position. R/R should only be available after a 3rd rider in the team is missing. 

    So if say Jason Doyle is out injured you replaced him with a championship rider of 4.50 ?  


  9. 8 hours ago, mikebv said:

    But with them the wider media simply won't take it seriously and give it coverage..

     

     

    Been here before ..the wilder media gave speedway loads of coverage when had guests not so many I grant you but still guests .. they also gave mass media to the World  Championship that had some of most mickey mouse and unfair rules you can have . Speedway has always micke ymouse  rules but its not  stop it from  being popular or getting Media attention .

    To much is made of what the public and the media think of the rules .

    • Like 2

  10. 1 hour ago, Vincent Blachshadow said:

    Oh I know people all right. I know people who stopped going because the last time they went the away 'team' included five guests and R/R. I know people who stopped going because they supported Wednesday and Saturday teams but now have to go Monday and Thursday. I know people who packed up when they saw how easy some promoters will gang up to try and put a couple of rival tracks out of business. I know a couple who packed up because they saw riders riding for opposing teams one day then in the same team the next a division lower. There's other reasons people I know have packed up going too but hey, in your little world all people have stopped going because of poor teams. Fix that, heaven knows how these better teams will be paid for, but get these riders back and all will be well!

    At least I concede a few probably stopped going because of poor teams (some who know you, apparently) but you seem to have a blinkered view where other motives are concerned.

    And, since a good proportion of speedway fans in this country watch all three levels of the sport , why would the concept of 'poor teams' bother them unduly as long as the teams were reasonably well matched and conducive to good racing.

    I think they are just your own views to be honest and these people don't  exist  lets  be honest you do it in  every debate ..people watch all sport at  all kinds of levels but nearly all  of the time the better standard the better crowd . This guff about good racing and well matched teams really  means next to  nothing other wise  the NL would be packed rather being watched by one man and his dog .

     


  11. 2 hours ago, Vincent Blachshadow said:

    We need more than just the ones who've left because of poor teams back because, in my experience, they won't make much difference. With no particular team to call my own to support I've been watching my speedway wherever took my fancy and met several people around the country I chatted to at their tracks. Many have stopped going and not one of them has cited 'poor teams' as their reason for packing up going to speedway. I don't doubt some have stopped going for that reason, but, as I posted, I don't know of any.

    Of course not.. every time you get into debate you never know of anyone .


  12. 4 hours ago, cityrebel said:

    Am i really bothered what you think. If you're not happy with what's being served up at the Shabbey every other week., have a word with your leader Rosco Russell. I'm sure he will be all ears.

    Well you keep replying so quite clearly you do ...Not a question if I am happy or not as  I still go ..it's the all fans that have left because of poor teams that we should be worried about


  13. 28 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

    People might care, but wether they would stump up the cash to see these top riders is another matter. I couldn't give a monkeys if Woffinden never rides here again. 

    Of course it's another matter but yet  again it has nothing  to with your silly  comment . Your last  comment sums  up  why speedway is nearly dead and what little idea the die hard speedway has about what the public want .

    • Like 2

  14. 21 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

    We can all dream cant we. The fixed race nights never brought the big stars back. British speedway is skint, even the likes of Poole can't make it pay anymore. Unless you have a magic wand, it's all downhill from here. Just accept it, i guess the vast majority of the promoters have.

    Yet again I never said anything about the money side  and I agree uk speedway is skint and there is no magic wand I have accepted it . But that has nothing  do with people not caring about what the standard of rider is as you have tried to make out .

     

     

     


  15. 18 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

    Once a year they might. They wouldn't support it every week at those prices. One off events will always attract a crowd. The GP circus has nothing to do with domestic speedway.

    One off events won't attract anyone if the standard of rider is poor  as I already asked do you think Cardiff would have the same crowds with  NL riders  . League speedway one off events will all get bigger crowds with better riders that just a fact .

     


  16. 1 hour ago, Badge said:

    TBH speedway has gone out of fashion, I used to go back in the 70's to watch Tiger, shrimpy, Billy etc along with my other half, sister, brother - in - law, sister-in-law and brother-in-law, brother and nephew, in the 80's/90's my 2 sons came. All that's left going is me!!, they get their fix on tv or in the case of my 30+ year old sons, they have lost interest.

    Nothing can bring back "the old days" when speedway was king, now it's a sport for diehards (ageing) who follow their team through thick and thin, whilst moaning constantly about how things were back in the day, and how the promoters should be doing this that and the other when in fact they seem to be trying to stem the flow of losing money in today's expensive climate.

    Obviously Cardiff is popular, but the 40,000 odd are not just Brits but many different nationalities watching the big boys, so think we need to just enjoy our racing whilst we've still got it.

    That's just my opinion.:t:

    Same applies ..other nationalities won't come if the riders are poor and that is  the whole point . We got people on  here saying the standard of rider does not effect crowds ..

    • Like 1

  17. 13 hours ago, cityrebel said:

    People don't want to watch speedway full stop, regardless of who's riding.

    So you think the crowds will be the same if the GP riders were replaced by Nl riders at  Cardiff … Speedway fans are like no other really when it comes to simple logic . Cardiff shows if the product is right people will watch speedway .


  18. 1 minute ago, acef said:

    You are right, but if we did that now, then it would be goodnight Vienna within a season. 

    That is financial suicide.

    I actually agree with both of you. 

    Speedway has got itself into such a mess it doesnt matter now if we try to go back to a premium product or cut even more costs and go amateur.

    Chapman is pulling any string he can to keep a tv deal because that is the current life line. It'll keep churning away YOY for another few seasons in it's current state as long as it hangs on to that deal.

    I really think the problem with speedway in this country is really, really simple. People just dont like it. We have gone through a generation change from the sports hay day and we haven't recycled the fan base.

    You could go amateur. You could put the best 7 riders in the world into a team. I dont think it will matter.

     

    Good post . as I said I don't have the answers to get the money to fund the riders etc ..but to say better riders don't bring in better crowds  is the most stupid thing I  have ever heard on this forum . 

    The last bit is so true the horse has bolted and long gone .. you are correct nothing can save it now from the slow death .

    • Like 3

  19. 46 minutes ago, Hawk127 said:

    Your are not doing like for like comparisons. Each has its own level and frankly you are making quotes which have no relevance to U.K. speedway. U K speedway neither has the public interest , significant sponsors or is markets itself as an attractive investment proposition particularly when compared to Poland or the GP’s or even the European championship. U K speedway is on its knees because of the head in the sand attitude of the governing body. All in all U.K. speedway cannot afford top riders, cannot afford to run on on anything other than weekends and cannot run with the finicky supporters who currently grace in fewer and fewer numbers the terraces because it is league racing or nothing. Without supporters attending meetings because of the sport as opposed to the team, how on earth are up and coming riders going to get the training and competitive racing they need.  Ask yourself why so many have deserted their local tracks. Rest assured few if any of the top riders will make any difference to the numbers attending and in the U K that local hero and team has been shafted in an attempt to chase the holy grail. RIP U.K. speedway if that attitude continues.

     

    I ask and know many people who deserted there local track and the answer  is  always the same .. the standard of the league ( riders ) got weaker .. As I said you are the person who's head is in the sand if you think better riders don't bring in better crowds .. that is the attitude and mind set that is killing speedway 

    • Like 1
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