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Sidney the robin

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Posts posted by Sidney the robin

  1. Posted

    On 10/6/2022 at 7:04 PM, auntie doris said:

    Good feature on BBC Points West about the Robins. Some good old racing footage, packed terraces, and interview with Mike Broadbank, Rosco, a Robins fan, and an MP? called Justin Tomlinson, saying Swindon are the Man City /Liverpool of speedway. Just need a millionaire farmer to buy the land from GI then.

    A little mega dramatic  from Tomlinson that Doris, about us being the Man City of speedway., We have also had some very poor teams over the years which makes the success even more special.The results were not the be all and end all for me generally the racing was decent  the track sometimes was not prepared in the good old days as well but overall  was very good.The England v USA test matches were special and the reshaped Abbey in the last year produced excellent entertainment. That really surprised me that track it had a few different lines on it  and Doyley and Razzer were my two favourites great days.

    • Like 1

  2. Posted

    9 hours ago, Grachan said:

    Some similar moments there to the ones I remember, Sidney. Renember the 1974 double header against Hackney and Belle Vue? My first season and the biggest crowd I ever saw there with Bob Kilby guesting for both sides. Couldn't believe it when it was later announced that Kilby would be at Blunsdon in  1975.

    I also remember Malc Holloway riding through the flower beds while the track staff scattered in all directions. So funny.

    The Ashby/Jansson Golden Helmet. I git Tommy's autograph that night. 

    Crump and Lee was another one. For me, the best riding I've ever seen from any rider ever was Michael Lee that night. He was beating Crump by the length of a straight and pulling wheelies at the same time. I remember it clearly.

    Another great memory for me was Andrew Silver coming in as our number 8 and riding straight between a couple of Wolves riders who were team riding on a 5-1.

    Lee took a while to get going in 83 but once he did he was very good . 84 before the ban was getting there.quick could beat anyone he beat Crumpie easily that day in the helmet.

  3. Posted

    So many memories cannot mention all of them here goes 1972 New Zealand v Sweden, 1973 New Zealand v Sweden 1977 Malcolm Holloway hitting the flower beds in a junior jaunt race.1973 a double header Swindon v Sheffield and Swindon v Reading.Malcolm Holloway scoring a 12 point maximum against Sheffield beating Shawn Moran twice.1976 Swindon v Sheffield Martin crash Ashby beating the brilliant Tommy Jansson in the golden helmet 1984 Mike Lee killing the brilliant Phil Crump in the golden helmet shedding a tear writing this criminal that the track has been discarded.

    • Like 1

  4. Posted

    10 hours ago, thecoombdog said:

    Yeah that limited time with Ward in the team was unreal. What a rider he was and he definitely got the crowds in. Doyley will always be a Robins legend after leading us to 2 titles as captain. The last year at the reshaped track was probably the best I can remember racing wise as well. 

    Like yourself and others to see Leigh everyweek was magical i can remember Leigh beating Jason 2.1 in a Belle Vue encounter.The skill the trust of those two were amazing and Leigh has to rank up there with Jessup, Sigalos, Warren, Carter, as being  good anough to be a world champion.As for Darcy what a brucie bonus that was, was so excited to see him ride an amazing talent and for me personally ranks alongside Lee, Gollob as the most naturally talented riders i have seen.

    • Like 2

  6. Posted

    9 hours ago, thecoombdog said:

    The best years for me was seeing Leigh in action every week. He's probably my favourite sportsman of all time. We were so lucky to witness that class every week for years. Will always remember the 2012 title as it was the first for ages and always good to get one over Poole! I remember punch ups at Oxford when I was a kid! Punch ups at Eastbourne when I was a bit older! Crumpy going unbeaten for about 7-8 meetings in Div 2 one year. Personally, great memories of going with my grandparents and then taking my niece and nephew and my own boys eventually. Gutted to be honest. Got plenty of other things going on in life and we haven't had speedway for 3 years but this still feels like a massive loss.

    To see Briggs,Broady, Ashby, Kilb,  Autrey, Crump (snr)  and Jason , Nilsen, Leigh,  Darcy ( for a treat) Doyley we have been blessed. Also  the lesser lights Malc, Hitchey( so exciting) to watch and Worth every penny a horrible day for me feel  betrayed today feel angry but nothing will change.

    • Like 4

  7. Posted

    1 hour ago, orion said:

    I think that post sums up how a lot of us are feeling today sid.

    The betrayal, lies,and generally taking us all for mugs is the hurtful thing.If only   they would of just been honest with us from the start that is all most of us Budgie fans would expect.Memories of the Abbey so many of them to name the place was a huge part of generations of supporters.My number 1 favourite memory was Malc Wellie Holloway ( RIP) running into the flowerbeds in a junior jaunt.

    • Like 1

  8. Posted

    11 hours ago, orion said:

    Spot on..say no dogs making the rent insane ..maybe he told Russell that the dogs is closing when really it's not.Maybe Tr is in on all the way  with them.So many lies it's just hard to tell .. The club has become a disgrace in all of this..Time for some kind of truth and statement from someone .

     

    You have been slated for years because you dared not to be swayed by  the   b……….         .I knew it in my heart this was happening but the funny thing is it still is a huge shock hard to except.The Abbey has been a huge part of my life and no one can take away the great memories i won’t be going to anymore live speedway my heart is not in it anymore.I hope the sport goes on to prosper but i think not my yesteryear collection will be my main passion now.

    • Like 4
    • Sad 1

  9. Posted

    2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

    I recall that Ivan Mauger was critical of Andrew Silver's style and was rebuked by both Andrew and Uncle Len I remember regarding his comments. Personally I felt his style went against him as he took the bends not in one clean move but I guess that's what made him spectacular to watch although his career did peter out despite a short comeback some years back and he could have achieved a lot more with the right guidance.

    A great point loved watching Andrew Silver  ride but always believed Martin Dugard was a better rider.He improved so much with the help of Hans Nielsen team riding everything.In a way a way Martin could of ended up as just a Arlington homer  a bully but he was terrific had a great career and finished when he felt the time was right.

    • Like 1

  12. Posted · Edited by Sidney the robin

    His interviews and thoughts on the Halifax and Kenny Carter dvds tell you quite alot about Eric as a person.I personally never went to Halifax much more than five times but what a day out loved the track and the people.Loved the clubhouse  where you could have a quiet pint and a chat and the Shay what a sight a great track and a real test for a rider.Eric/ Bonnie Boothroyd and his track staff  made Halifax a great track to visit I only wish i could of visited it more.

    • Like 4

  15. Posted · Edited by Sidney the robin

    17 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

    Absolutely Sid...a record that any rider would be proud of. I'm convinced if the GP's had been around during the eighties he would have added to that total of wins no question.

    I first see Hans ride in 1977 and he  looked very talented but my first memory of him being able to compete regularly on the world stage was in the 1978 World team cup final   Landshut he scored 11 points he was superb.

  16. Posted

    13 hours ago, steve roberts said:

    The 1983 World Final was the eventual turning point for Hans when he admits himself he had got his self belief in check and could have made the rostrum after leading eventual champion Egon Muller before loosing his chain. He felt that riding a small track held him back but the move to Cowley (Swindon was a track he would have considered apparently) moved him up a significant notch and as they say the rest is history.

    Winner four times  six times runner up and two third places from 1980/1999. That  record is insane Steve he also won in both disciplines of the world championship a record to be proud of.

  17. Posted · Edited by Sidney the robin

    20 hours ago, falcace said:

    Great. Always interesting to see head to heads. From the year we are debating would certainly be interesting. Just to flag though, their two meetings in the World Championship were both won by Nielsen.

    Yes, I can see that 8 points from 6 is a poor return from Nielsen in this one test you seem so interested in. Then again, it does better the 3, 4 and 4 posted by Lee in in the USA tests that season, albeit around a decent 12 pointer.

    Sorry to hear that Nielsen and Gundersen were so awful that night at Hackney with Lee and Carter having the beating of them. Below par they may have been, but the records show that Nielsen actually beat Carter in both their meetings and Gundersen also still got the better of Lee once....not bad for "awful".

     

    3rd Test at Hackney 8th July
    Ht 1: Carter, Olsen, L Collins, Knudsen 62.0 4-2 4-2
    Ht 2: Lee, Nielsen, P Collins, Thomsen 61.4 4-2 8-4
    Ht 3: Ravn, Morton, Jessup, Gundersen 61.8 3-3 11-7
    Ht 4: P Collins, Lee, Olsen, Knudsen 62.7 5-1 16-8
    Ht 5: Jessup, Morton, Thomsen, Nielsen 62.7 5-1 21-9
    Ht 6: Carter, L Collins, Gundersen, Ravn 62.5 5-1 26-10
    Ht 7: Morton, Olsen, Jessup, Knudsen 63.0 4-2 30-12
    Ht 8: Nielsen, L Collins, Thomsen, Carter (ret) 63.2 2-4 32-16
    Ht 9: Lee, Gundersen, Ravn, P Collins 62.4 3-3 35-19
    Ht 10: Carter, Olsen, Rasmussen, L Collins (f) no time 3-3 38-22
    Ht 11: Lee, P Collins, Eriksen, Nielsen (exc) 63.1 5-1 43-23
    Ht 12: Jessup, Gundersen, Morton, Ravn 63.4 4-2 47-25
    Ht 13: Lee, Olsen, Knudsen, P Collins 62.3 3-3 50-28
    Ht 14: Thomsen, Morton, Jessup, Nielsen 63.2 3-3 53-31
    Ht 15: Carter, Ravn, Gundersen, L Collins 63.3 3-3 56-34
    Ht 16: Morton, Olsen, Jessup, Knudsen (f exc) 64.2 4-2 60-36
    Ht 17: Nielsen, Carter, Thomsen, L Collins 63.6 2-4 62-40
    Ht 18: Gundersen, Lee, P Collins, Ravn 63.3 3-3 65-43

    In heat 8  ( Hackney test ) Carter was in front having passed Hans on the second lap and packing up on the last lap.Falcace you odviously followed the professors career like Steve Roberts and he was a true GREAT he certainly grew on me over the years.Was never a fan but see him quite a bit for Oxford and other meetings and you had to be impressed by his perseverance after a few setbacks that really impressed me.But the most impressive thing from Hans was his brilliant longevity at the top and going out at the right time.Being a Lee fan 1983 was a reminder of just how good he was and to be able to beat Hans/Erik who were the benchmark was no mean feat.Looking on now Hans would certainly be in my top 6 riders of all time and how many more titles could he have won over the GP format??? quite a few i think.

  18. Posted

    3 hours ago, falcace said:

    Definitely interesting and sometimes revealing, but not always presenting an accurate picture. For example, Gundersen has an 8-3 head to head comparison with Nielsen in World Finals and I think that does reveal something of a psychological edge he had over his rival. On the flipside, Carl Blackbird bagged a few wins against Nielsen, but I can't put that down to anything more than a quirk.

    For me Erik always held an edge in big meetings against Hans pressure maybe who knows.Hans after his lucky let off against Tommy went on and look he was a great rider.My point was 1983 the BEST version of a Lee and a Carter had the beating of him Hans went to Oxford went up a few levels where certain riders fell away.

  19. Posted · Edited by Sidney the robin

    5 hours ago, falcace said:

    Agreed. Would have been a lot of GP winners. Mort started the season on fire, Lee and Carter picked it up late season. Gundersen, Sigalos and Sanders all had their moments. But out of all them, they were all prone to a bad night here and there. That hardly ever happened with Nielsen.

    It did at Hackney in the test he was awful as was Erik       Lee / Carter had the beating of  both of them...Both Lee/Carter could beat anyone at any given time generally check the head to head over the years between Lee / Nielsen very interesting reading Falcace  from 1977 -1984.

  20. Posted · Edited by Sidney the robin

    13 hours ago, waiheke1 said:

    And in case you were interested Sid, Aces vs Sheffield 1/10/83

    Golden Helmet:

    1. Morton Lee 67.9

    2. Lee  Morton 67.1

    3. Lee Morton 68.7

    Aces vs Sheffield:

    Ht1: Lee L Carr Ross P White fell 69.3   3-3

    ht 5: Lee P Carr D Morton P Collins Fell 70.0 (Collins fell L4 while leading) 15-15

    ht8: Lee Wilson L Carr Smith 70.4   23-25

    ht11: Lee Morton Bargh Smith 70.2  35-31

    ht 13: Lee P Collins G Short C Morton ef D Morton ex tapes 70.4 Morton ef L3 while in second  42-36

    Lee 15 point maximum 

    (Meeting a double-header; Aces vs Birmingham followed, with Nielsen scoring 13, beaten twice by Mort)

    Thanks again to beat Mort 2.1 at Hyde rd took some doing but to beat Carter  4,.0 and Erik 4.0  in the helmet took some doing.to.

  21. Posted

    3 hours ago, waiheke1 said:

    Belle Vue V Poole 19 June 1983

     

    Belle Vue - Peter Collins 12, Chris Morton 10, Louis Carr 8, Larry Ross 7, Kenny McKinna 5, Peter Carr 4, Andy Smith 3

     

    Poole - John Davis 10, Michael Lee 9, Kevin Smith 4, Vaclav Verner 3, Erik Stenlund 1, Neil Middleditch 1, Andy Campbell 0

     

    Ht 01: Lee, L.Carr, Stenlund, Ross (ef) 70.2 (2-4)

    Ht 02: McKinna, Verner, Campbell (ef), A.Smith (ef) 71.8 (5-6)

    Ht 03: Collins, K.Smith, Middleditch, P.Carr (ef) 70.2 (8-9)

    Ht 04: Morton, Davis, McKinna, Campbell (ef) 70.4 (12-11)

    Ht 05: Collins, Lee, P.Carr, Stenlund 69.8 (16-13)

    Ht 06: Ross, Davis, L.Carr, Verner 71.0 (20-15)

    Ht 07: Morton, K.Smith, McKinna, Middleditch (f exc) 69.4 (24-17)

    Ht 08: Davis, L.Carr, Verner, A.Smith 72.2 (26-21)

    Ht 09: Collins, P.Carr, Davis, Verner (f exc) 71.4 (31-22)

    Ht 10: L.Carr, Lee, Ross, K.Smith 71.4 (35-24)

    Ht 11: A.Smith, Morton, Lee, K.Smith 72.4 (40-25)

    Ht 12: Ross, Davis, P.Carr, K.Smith 71.0 (44-27)

    Ht 13: Collins, Morton, Lee, Middleditch 71.2 (49-28)

    Thanks for that Waiheke1 must appreciated.

    • Like 1

  22. Posted · Edited by Sidney the robin

    8 hours ago, falcace said:

    Hmmm...ok. Either you form an opinion based on credible evidence and facts or you don't.

    Waiheke1 had already mentioned Andy Smith beating Lee in 83. And I'm sure there are other examples of lesser riders beating Nielsen that year. But the bigger picture and the facts show Hans Nielsen consistently scored more points than any other rider that year and finished it as the BL no1, Intercontinental Champion, Nordic Champion, WTC winner, World Pairs bronze. Mike Lee had a very good year. But he won nowt. 

    Worth a look at a title deciding big race between the two in 83....if there is any "blowing away" to be done, Nielsen is not the one on the receiving end....

     

    For what it's worth, I think the bigger loss to the sport post 83 was Dennis Sigalos....a real class act. With a 10.75 average, second only to Nielsen, he was nearing his peak. And unlike Lee, his loss to the sport wasn't self inflicted.  I think he had the skill, talent, professionalism to be in there with Nielsen and Gundersen fighting for the big prizes throughout the 80s, had he not suffered a career ending injury.

    I certainly agree with you Falcace on the Siggy assumption he was a class act and would of been a threat to the Danes.Also don’t forget Billy the kid he was approaching his peak before his passing and had really pushed on in his career.Back to Lee yes of course most of his problems were of his own doing but was also pushed along the way with the help of a few vindictive people within the speedway circle.If times had of been different we COULD of had a period of a fit/ Stable Carter, a motiavated Lee, Siggy, Billy, Erik, Hans all pushing for glory it was not to be.1983 was a very good season for me enjoyed it very much even though the Swindon Robins had a dreadful team shocking really.

  23. Posted

    18 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

    Biased, I know, but Nielsen was THE rider of the middle/late eighties/early nineties in my opinion as Ivan was in the seventies with Olsen poking his nose in now and again although Peter Collins gave them the runaround and Michanek was sublime in 1973.

    For me Steve Ivan/ ( Ole  he was not everyone’s cup of tea not yours ) were the benchmark from 69 / 73 .Michanek was a mega rider a beast top class Tommy got killed when approaching his peak Collins and  then a gangly Lee come on the scene.

    • Like 1

  24. Posted · Edited by Sidney the robin

    9 hours ago, falcace said:

    You say that....but...

    • Nielsen topped the averages with 10.82. Lee was 6th with 10.16 and third Englishman.
    • Nielsen won the Intercontinental Final.
    • Nielsen would have been in a run-off for 2nd in the World Final with Sanders had he not packed up in the final race whilst well ahead making Lee 4th.
    • Nielsen won the World Team Cup with Denmark, dropping only 1point through qualifiers and final.

    I think that clearly trumps anything achieved by Lee, who finished the season very well, but was actually pretty poor in test series against USA (for example). Nielsen actually won things that year and finished as the top rider in the British League.

    It's easy to fall into the trap of overestimating a performance of a rider on some cherry picked meetings, but ultimately they are deemed pretty irrelevant in a wider scene. I think I have said on here before I saw Chris Morton single handedly blitz a field of Nielsen, Wigg, Moran, Gundersen, Pedersen, Knudsen, Tatum at the British Open Pairs at Sheffield a week before the 86 World Final. I was convinced he had a huge chance of being World Champion a week later. But the natural order resumed when it really mattered and Mort finished down the field.

    You said Nielsen was the best rider probably..? in1983 ..Lee got injured in the test series at Wimbledon in the USA tests.yet stats say Nielsen was great .For me  1983 Lee/Carter  had the  beating of him not easily  but t in 83 Lee and Carter blew him away often yes HANS was a great RIDER  and went on to prove GREATNESS.but not in 1983.

    • Like 1

  25. Posted

    4 hours ago, falcace said:

    Lee was good in 1983. Very good. And at times, downright brilliant. I don't think he was the best rider in the world that year. That was probably Hans Nielsen. But he was back in the mix for sure and it would have been much more interesting having a motivated Lee, an active Penhall, a fit and stable Carter and a fit Sigalos around for a few more years to challenge and possibly beat Gundersen and Nielsen. 

    I don’t think Nielsen in 83 was anywhere near the best rider in the world he was world class not doubt it. But in 83 Carter beat him easily in the helmet .And at Hackney  in the test match Lee/ Carter both destroyed Hans/Erik.Lee beat Hans in both the BLRC at Belle Vue and the pride of the east meetings comfortably 1984/ Hans moved up a level.

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