Sidney the robin
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Posts posted by Sidney the robin
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3 minutes ago, auntie doris said:Is he still running the workshop? Some fantastic Swindon number 1's in that lot. Doyley the only one to have won League title 3 times for the Robins. Shame the other 2 Aussies never won it.
I don’t think so? he did alot for Jan Andersson over the years very good with engines.When you look back Swindon really did have some poor teams 1983 has to be the worst but if never bothered me the winning bit.If you look back Doris you have seen Briggo, Broady, Kilb, Crash, Autrey ( 1980) Crumpie (snr) , Petersen, Nilsen, Crump ( jnr) Darcy , Doyley we have been very fortunate.
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6 minutes ago, auntie doris said:Crash was perhaps too quiet and modest. I called into his workshop in Marlborough about 6 years ago and asked for his autograph to send to my bruv in Australia."You want my autograph?" he said, looking surprised, and duly obliged. Nice bloke. Was on the Abbey terraces for years until ill-health curtailed that.
Still see him there sometimes Doris , i also got him to sign loads of stuff for me he was embarrassed don’t know why a real nice guy.When i look back Martin with Kilb, Crumpie and Leigh they were riders we all took for granted really they don’t come around that often Doyley now has joined them another great.
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7 minutes ago, steve roberts said:My abiiding memory of Martin was missing the gate and down the back straight lining himself up to pass his opponent on the third and forth bend hugging the white line. Unfortunately white line riding is a rarity nowadays with superfast charges which require middle track outside surges. Perhaps one reason why team riding became more of a rarity over the years?
I think that run off with the great Willy in 1975 said it all Steve he should of been harder Bernie certainly was in 1972.? Ashby rarely gets mentioned but he was a terrific rider to watch every Saturday he had great skill.It saddened me how he was treated by Swindon in 1980 but he had the last laugh by winning the league and bonus with Reading that year.
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18 minutes ago, steve roberts said:...something that Malcolm Simmons commented upon. When he took John "under his wing" during their time at Wimbledon in 1984 it's something that he tried to correct suggesting that John ride his own race rather than continually looking behind him. Always brought great personal pleasure to me when Gordon Kennett (that name again) would often be out gated by aforementioned Davis only for Gordon to continually harass him as John rode wider and wider allowing Gordon to slip thru' winning the race!
It certainly was an art to be able to hold the line Steve, Martin Ashby at the Abbey was superb at this.If he didn’t gate he would bide his time drift out wide then cut underneath in one sweet motion it looked easy it was far from it though.Also with Davis with him he never seemed to go that great at Hyde Rd that puzzled me with his aquipment.
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3 minutes ago, steve roberts said:Spot on with that analysis. It's fair to say that John used all of his limited ability to the maximum (whereas some with massive ability tended to under achieve allowing outside influences and distractions to effect their performances) and produced some great results on tracks not best suited to his style. He openly admits that he preferred the bigger tracks and hated the likes of Eastbourne. I often thought it odd that after requesting a move from Oxford he ended up at another small track down the road at Reading?
As Chunky said when Davis was good he was very very good my real memory of him though was his gating.It would be interesting to know how many races he lost when being in winning positions quite a few i would imagine he always seemed to eventually drift out wide and leave gaps.But he did maximise his ability and had a great career alot of riders would of bitten your arm off to have the career he had.
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5 hours ago, BL65 said:Although John Davis may not have been considered an 'elite' rider, he nevertheless had a few notable achievements in meetings featuring top riders of his day:
- Gained a World Team Cup winner’s medal in the 1977 Final in Poland, scoring 6 from two rides against Poland, Sweden and Czechoslovakia.
- Won the 1978 Ullevi round of the Master of Speedway GP, ahead of Peter Collins, Olsen, Lee, Simmons, Jessup, Crump, Kennett, Mauger, Michanek, Sanders and Louis.
- Won The Laurels in 1978 at Wimbledon, against Kennett, Simmons, Crump, Jancarz, Ross and Jessup.
- Won the 1980 Daily Express Spring Classic at Wimbledon, against a line-up including Peter Collins, Schwartz, Nielsen, Ross, Penhall, Kennett, Jessup, Lee, Louis and Simmons.
- Won The Laurels in 1981 at Wimbledon, against Chris Morton, Les and Peter Collins, Simmons, Schwartz, Kennett, Kelly Moran and Ross.
- Won the prestigious Golden Helmet of Pardubice in 1984, beating King and Stancl in the final.I see him win the Manpower meeting at Reading ( Penhall rode ) in 1978? he was good awesome that night .
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3 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said:Jack Thomas is in fine form at the moment and is likely to be the difference. Expect him to have at least 6 rides. 4 points either way.
Jack is in fine form at the moment , but if you look at his home form he has scored 1 point in three of his eight home meetings.Also i would say Poole have reserves and a second string that are always tough to keep at the back.If Jack has to have six rides for me that tells you that Birmingham are not going to win the meeting .
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I think this could be a close affair and they might actually be better off on this occasion having R/R for Basso.Thomas, Cook, Hume, Nielsen are the key riders for me. Thomas has hit a nice vein of form recently but i recon Poole by four points or more will the heatleaders of Poole score 30 points between them.?
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1 hour ago, steve roberts said:Agree with you entirely. I saw a lot of him at Oxford (1972, 73 & 74) and his strong point was his gating and he was never known to being the best exponent at passing riders. Very articulate and forthright in his views and was good at attracting sponsors but as a rider he was never up there with the best.
I see alot of him over the years and i never rated him, he was a good gater and he had top notch aquipment but he was never an elite rider.Also see him quite a bit at Reading and his team riding skills were non existent often on the best gates with the lesser team mate.
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4 hours ago, waiheke1 said:I did stats analyis of each season in the 80s, and while you could argue the weightings used, Davis ranked 24th - behind other brits such as Kennett, Bastable and Alan Grahame. As a reference, Crump was ranked 8th, thr only top ten rider not in the field
Agree Davis never performed at the very highest level, with the exception of 1980. After a dip in form mid-80s i recall him having a superb 1985.
I don't think you'll find a bigger Larry Ross fan than me, I'd say his peak ran 79-82 - his only world final appearance was after moving to Aces, and he was cornerstone of their 82BL title win, topping their away averages.
I often thought the result of the USA and Australian final meetings had a huge impact on the actual line up for the final.Both cut throat meetings Crump suffered badly from this Shawn Moran/ Sigalos were two others who suffered also Autrey in 1979 was hit hard through his dispute with the Authorities.
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Just now, steve roberts said:Meet you half way Sid...the Oxford "Budgies" then!
That sounds great in all seriousness though it has to be the Cheetahs Steve. And if Swindon don’t start and certain circumstances allow maybe a few Robins riders might get a place there in time.I personally don’t care who rides i will be there whatever level they ride at be great to see the track back up and running.
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3 hours ago, steve roberts said:Good grief nooooo!
Yes please we have to embrace change Steve.
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4 hours ago, BobC said:Excellent that the Cheetahs appear to be on the road to a comeback. Really enjoyed the 2007 NL season.
Glad you mention Mike Kilby. Swindon v Poole mid 70's. Before this, Martin Ashby v Tommy Jansson in the Golden Helmet. Great times. Mike had gone home after the Helmet races and before Ht8 and had returned with photos from that!
As you say, great photos and smashing family.
Yes i remember both the Golden Helmet meeting’s in 1976 Bob, Crash beat Simmo ( RIP) 2.0 in both the home and away legs.Also in the Swindon v Sheffield fixture crash beat the great Tommy Jansson 2.0 ( RIP) to force a decider at Cradley.. Tommy ended up winning it 2.1 great days, i remember getting Tommy’s autograph and him staying and riding in the second half..Remember those days well Bob, we rode Poole in the Champagne stakes and we had a few challenge matches as well with the league fixture so we got to see quite a bit of Poole in which invited good crowds.
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2 hours ago, norbold said:I haven't really commented on the substance of this topic, nor answered the original question, so here goes....
I was, of course, brought up in the era of The Big Five and have followed speedway ever since. I have to admit I did lose interest in the 80s and 90s, though I still managed to get along to some meetings at Ipswich and followed the sport in the Speedway Star, so what I have to say, may be a bit unfair on that era. But, I do feel that speedway lost its way a bit during that period, which is maybe why I lost interest.
I think there is no doubt that the Grand Prix revived a flagging sport and gave it back some oomph. There is also no doubt that the old one-off finals at Wembley were magical occasions and the atmosphere was just incredible. 80,000 fans at Wembley couldn’t help but create such an atmosphere. But there was no way that would have been sustained through the 80s and 90s, even if Wembley was still the venue. The sport really needed a big change if it was going to survive.That change came about with the Grand Prix and I absolutely agree with those that say that it is a much fairer way of finding the best rider in the world over a whole season. Of course, there have been times, as I mentioned above, when some riders have been unlucky with injury and maybe should have won, Jason Doyle and Leon Madsen to name two, not to mention running out of fuel like Jason Crump! But I agree that was far more likely to happen under the old one-off than in a whole series.
As for the riders themselves, as others have said, I always think it difficult to pitch different era riders against each other. No-one would question that watching riders like Zmarzlik, Doyle, Sayfutdinov, Lindgren, Pedersen and yes, Gollob (let’s not forget him) is what speedway is all about and why we love it. But so was watching riders like Briggs, Fundin, Craven, Harrfeldt, Lofqvist and others from the 60s era, who were no less thrilling and spectacular.
Speedway has always had its thrill merchants. Of course I never saw them but when you read about the exploits of the likes of Vic Huxley, Billy Lamont, Tom Farndon, George Newton from before the War, this has always been the case (as an example, click on my avatar photo of Lamont and Huxley!).
So, to sum up, I do think the introduction of the Grand Prix was the right thing to do at the right time, but I do not agree that it has produced more thrilling and spectacular riders. They have always been around.
Great post and agree with everything here, and yes at the time i was not happy with the one off final being kicked into touch.But I realise now it was the right thing to do and now i watch every GP do i enjoy every one of them NO.But being honest with myself i did see plenty of dross in yesteryear as well so nothing has really changed in that respect.Your point of entertaining riders is totally spot on, they have always been there, ( ie) a few come to mind Nigel B , Lofqvist, B.Thomas, Hitch, Gollob,( endless others as well).
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1 hour ago, steve roberts said:How great it would be to stand on the third bend as of old however most of those I stood with are no longer with us including my much missed Dad.
I actually loved Oxford’s track shop a terrific shop on bend two so that is where i watched mainly got quite a bit of my memorabilia from there.My first time there i think was for the Individual champions meeting and in the Hans era we used to go in the brilliant new restaurant .This was a real eye opener for me after being used to the shabby saying that you always got a good meal in the restaurant at Swindon.Also in the window leading up to the restaurant Mick Kilby sold some of his photographs there were some of the best photographs i have ever seen.
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Be great to go back to Cowley that could be my only speedway fix depending on Swindon of course.Fingers crossed that everything goes well for the new promotion maybe they could become part of one big league that has to happen soon.
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4 hours ago, keepturningleft said:No intention to disparage the great riders from the past, but few, if any people on this forum ever saw Craven ride and there is precious little action footage of him, so we can't really make a judgemental comparison other than listening to other people's reminiscences.
You could say that about Tommy Price and Fred Williams but we all have a view.!,
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1 minute ago, OveFundinFan said:Peter did indeed have a great talent. We know his nickname was “the wizard of balance”. I think he was 5’ 2”, so small. We see many photos of him with his head as low as the left handlebar. Not always his riding style, more when he was riding the inside line. Remember that in the 50’s/60’s handlebars were wide and often upswept. This made it the more incredible his style of riding. Getting his head down low would put centre of gravity low, which no doubt helped his balance.
Whilst a great talent, and one of the famous five ( Knutson came good 1959/60), his performance in the world finals was perhaps not as consistent as the others. For example 1959 9th, 1961 10th, and 1963 10th (his last world final). Fundin, Briggs, Moore and Craven were pretty much same age…. All born 1933 or 1934, so they were all rose to their peak at the same time, and about to start their decline (the Mauger years staring in 1968). Whether Peter would have won any more world titles we will never know, but I would say it was not a cert.
I never heard Fundins eulogy at Peters funeral, but I don’t understand where it is said Ove said he would not have won as many world titles as he did if Peter had lived. Ove won in 1963, Peters last final (Wembley). when he finished 10th, and Ove only won one more world title, 1967, meaning Fundin had already won four. This is taking nothing way from Peters record, it’s just a fact.
A real talent Craven in a terrific era great rider looking back Ove but Barry did very well to win the titles he did the opposition was sublime really tough.
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1 hour ago, keepturningleft said:No intention to disparage the great riders from the past, but few, if any people on this forum ever saw Craven ride and there is precious little action footage of him, so we can't really make a judgemental comparison other than listening to other people's reminiscences.
Surely you acknowledge that Peter was a superb talent i never see him ride but my uncle did on numerous occasions and he raved about him so that was good anough for me.Bartosz i love watching him ride but to mention those other guys ( eras apart ) not even worth considering great riders would adjust to any era in my view put the great Tom Farndon in that mix as well.
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12 hours ago, keepturningleft said:GP's, without a doubt.
I saw 3 world finals, Wembley '69 and Odsal '85 & 90, great occasions all, but GP's are a much better way of doing things.
Besides we get to have a magnificent big time occasion every single year at Cardiff. Previously the big night only came to the UK once every 5 years or so.
Some are moaning about a likely 2 horse race this year between Laguta and Zmarzlik, but honestly what's not to like. Zmarzlik is incredible to watch, a hundred times more spectacular than Mauger, Briggs, Olsen and many others put together and he pulls off moves you would never have see any of those afore mentioned riders make.
More spectacular than Briggo really ? and by the way they have 13 world titles between them hardly a bunch of also rans.
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Will this meeting be on Birmingham radio.?
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7 hours ago, PirateShip said:Sadly as we know speedway is a numbers game.
I thought Anders may have performed better than he as given how he had been riding in Poland.
That said he as a big future and I feel Redcar have only made a short term gain with the changes.
This will only fire Anders up more to do better at Edinburgh?......if that's where he's gone.
Ryan Kinsley......I wouldn't like to be him as he seems to be being used to make up the numbers first at Lynn now at Redcar.
Kinsley at this level will struggle away from home good luck a real tough league at reserve.
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21 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:Having just seen the new September 1 averages, both Rory and Steve have increased theirs with (surprisingly) Danny dropping slightly!
Assuming the new averages are correct (you're never 100% sure with BSPl!) then Poole should retain their same 1-7 riding order for September, which I confess surprises me slightly, unless Middlo reckons Worrall and King switch 3 & 5? BUT if it ain't broke, why change it?
Why change it no reason to Skidder the heatleaders are all riders i like Worrall especially sometimes he throws a duff one in but he has been class.Look at the Redcar/ Edinburgh away encounters what riders scored ? quite surprising really .Sorry to be a pain Skidder what are the Poole averages.?
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3 minutes ago, Endeavour said:Can he replace Luke Crang? Can’t remember if Drew was a rising star.
Any updates on Willie Lawson’s position in the team?
I don’t know sure he could ? Lawson is finding it mighty tough in the top five.
Birmingham v Poole. 1st September 2021
in SGB Championship League Speedway
Posted
That Wolves meeting was watched and deleted within two hours it was so boring Brennan/ Flint were the only bright spots.The sport is in huge trouble in the UK and there has to be debate and major changes come November/ December.Will it though ? NO a few rule changes trying to paper over the cracks and the show plods on.