Thornaby48

Are we starting to get to the crux of falling attendances ? After having the starter and main course at SP 177's cafe we are told there will be a 15 minute delay before the dessert because the chef wants a rest.

Could one reason new young fans are not coming through is the time meeting finish? They usually start at 7-30 and finish between 9-30 and 10 and then they have to get home ,it could ,perhaps be too late for many when they have school or college the next day or they want to get back to their computers. The most popular sports such as football and rugby are 9 times out of 10 played on a weekend afternoon so there isn't a problem, we never hear them comment about lack of support. So if this could be a factor lets try to finish the main match in good time. Why do we need an interval after heat 10 ? All we are doing is standing around for 15 minutes twiddling our thumbs waiting for the last 5 heats get under way. Redcar do provide entertainment of a sort with a competition, interviews with any former riders who are there and the excellent Smoggie the Bear entertaining the kids but I would rather be watching the racing.Whilst the Redcar stadium is very pleasant with a friendly atmosphere it is basic in places, no cover from the weather on the standing terraces for instance , and it can get chilly up here late on. Last Thursday I attended Redcar v Ipswich (a very good meeting) which was threatened by rain so the promotion got a move on and 15 heats, a couple of delays as the track was graded ,no interval until after heat 15 and the main match was over by 9pm, which if you had kids gets them home in reasonable time. Let's return to the old "40-38"(13 heats) days with the interval after the main match and before the Rider of the Night second half then people can decide whether to go or stay It would be interesting to know if a Saturday track ,like Berwick starting at 7pm, pulls in more youngsters than a mid week track.

Very good meeting and Ipswich deserved the win, Redcar just cannot all fire at the same time. Due to the threat of rain the main meeting was finished by 9 pm so no hanging around ,good all round.

You know me too well ha ha

I am of the older generation and my mobile phone is very basic, I don't want a fancy phone that does everything but make a simple call.I enjoy collecting the match programmes and filling them in and looking back at past meeting I have attended ( well over 1100) .Having said that for the modern generation it could be a good idea.

What we have to be care full of is that we are not trying to reinvent the wheel. Basically speed way has existed for 90years as a team sport with 4 riders racing four laps scoring points for their team trying to win the league, no fancy Mickey Mouse gimmicks like bump starts or 8 riders in a race or female riders ( although if my memory serves me correctly Middlesbrough had a lady rider in the second half in the early 80's). You don't find the other major sports of football, rugby,or cricket worrying about attracting young fans and reinventing the basics of the sport.True cricket keeps trying to reinvent itself with the T20 and run yourself silly competitions, football doesn't say make the goals double the size and have 3 goalkeepers. So speed way must keep its basic format but alter the internal mechanics of the sport such as guest riders, r/r etc. The people to blame for its demise are the promoters pure and simple and their lack of foresight and business sense.Speed way will exist for many years to come I am sure.

I quite agree about the cost of the programme.At Redcar the programme is £2.50 and basically there is nothing in it. I always buy one ,I don't know how people can get full enjoyment without one. Surely a basic score card with results and fixtures is all that is needed costing say £1.00. Does anybody really look at all the adverts in a programme, I dont

The last thing we want in speed way is to use the word "circus", that gives the impression that the sport cannot be taken seriously. Why not return to the successful 1970's with 13 heat TEAM match followed by a couple reserve races for the up and coming and the individual Rider of the Night races for all and sundry perhaps counting towards an end of season grand final. Bring back the SIlver Sash match races as well. How is that for a variety? What we have to appreciate that when a business loses its customers they are very difficult to bring back. Forget the old fans they will return in time, I did after 14 years, concentrate on attracting new fans. In the mean time sort out the guest rider problem, look at refining the r/r system with no. 8 riders, encouraging local New riders ,organise an attractive league, the use of tac subs etc. and start next year anew.

Good post. How about letting the riders or team manager onto the centre green when protesting to the ref about something or in some cases appearing to protest when they were actually asking the ref how his holidays went. In the "old days" it certainly stirred the crowd up in a friendly hostile way and created some interaction.

Yes I agree it is gimmicky but it is a one off meeting and if the gimmick caught the attention and curiosity of the locals bringing in first timers then it is worth it. All adverts have gimmicks and let's be honest after the Julie Lewis Memorial meeting K.K. was dubious about running the Silver Helmet meeting.

One of the finest sights in speed way was to see two riders ,either home team or away , riding together as a team keeping the opposition out. One rider going wide the other riding the white line. The late Jack Millen used to do it a lot whilst at Sunderland keeping close to a young Dave Gatenby and provided exciting racing. It was always a rare sight ,something I have not seen in a long time. There have been occasions in a meeting when team riding could have been used only for the faster rider to power away leaving his partner behind turning what could have been a5-1into a4-2 or worse. Having never ridden a speed way bike I don't know what type of view a rider has of behind him, so perhaps or perhaps the team manager could from the centre green signal to his riders what is going on

I do not like the use of guest riders but I accept that in speed way it is a necessary evil, there are not enough good riders around to cope with missing riders. I am in favour of only using a guest for an injured no 1 and limit it to say 6 meeting. Otherwise I am in favour of r/r, but as it stands it is not matching like for like. To my mind riders should be allowed up to two r/r rides. Let's take an example: Redcar v Peterborough .Peterborough used r/r for Ulrich Ostergaard ave 7.41. The riders used as r/r were: Scott Nicholls. 7.74 Ellis Perks. 4.95 B. Wilson-Dean. 5.90 M. Palm-Tort. 6.68= 25.27. Let's call this the Rideable Average(RA) If Ostergaard had ridden his RA would have been. 7.41x4 rides = 29.64. A loss of 4.37 Had the inform Palm-Toft taken a second r/r in heat 13 in place of Perks (increasing the RA to27.00) then , instead of a heat loss 5-1 they may have had a heat loss of 4-2 giving them the away win bonus point. Had Nicholls taken 2 rides and Palm-Tort 2 rides then the RA would have risen to 28.84 much nearer to Ostergaard's RA and making a more realistic like for like. An other example was the Berwick v Sheffield match. Berwick used r/r for N B Jakobsen 6.50 ave.= 26.00 RA The r/r riders scored 6 points. The riders used were : K Doolan. 6.24ave D.Appraiser. 5.36 A. Summers. 7.54 D.Howe. 6.09= 25.23RA. almost the same as Jakobsen's so only one ride each could be taken unless they gave the inform J. Etheridge ( 5.05 ave) 2 r/r rides So as long as the rider being replaced RA isn't exceeded then a fair like for like is achieved.

Referring back to my 1975 Speed way rule book there is a section called Equalization and Cancellation which says " if opposing teams qualify for the use of a guest and / or rider replacement,then these methods will not be utilised; instead teams will use their own resources." This of course is back in the days of 13 heats and a second half and the no 8 was used whereas today we even use a guest in the reserves.

I have a copy of the1975 speedway regulations that state that in the event of r/r being used the no 8 has to be programmed and that he must be given at least 2 rides during the match or in the second half. Since we did away with the old 13 heat formula a proper second half doesn't exist which of course limits the opportunities for up and coming riders to get valuable experience. I prefer the r/r system to filling a team with guest riders ,having said that I agree that a team should use its own riders.

I am not up with modern technology so am at the mercy of the tablet, or what ever it's called.

Speed way, like cricket , is very focused on averages---batting, bowling, riding.Historically in speed way the two lowest averaged riders occupy nos. 6 and 7.THis could mean a rider yo-yo into and out of the main team. At times a rider in the main team can ride below his average due to loss of form or recovering from injury and needs a boost to get back into it. The 7th in the averages must be a reserve but why not allow the team manager decide which of the 4,5,6 riders in the averages to take the other reserve position? A recent example of how this would work is the Red car v Scunthorpe meeting.Tobias Busch returned from injury for this match , he is 4th in the averages,___ .48 higher than M B Andersen in 6th place. The team manager would have the option to use him at no.6 to allow him to ride back to match fitness, then put him back in the main body of the team when he sees fit. This also means the team manager has more say in the selection of the team rather than being a servant to the averages.

Oops forget to mention ,the top 4 scorers could then race off for the title.The idea of using 6 local town names with guest riders sounds attractive

The 3 local teams I mentioned would be made up of Red car riders just for that night, so Stockton could be the Anderson bros., Red car could be Ben Barker and sayTobias Busch and Middlesbrough could be Dimitri Bergen and say Thomas Jorgansen, just throwing names about there. Then pairs could be invited from Berwick, Newcastle and Workington.I know that this is a pairs meeting with pairs meeting each other once but I think that this might be more attractive than an individual meeting.

I agree with you about Kevin Keay, he certainly keeps the Red car fans informed and puts on a very good show. I consider the speed way at Red car far better than at the old Cleveland Park.Basically I suggested that people prefer team racing rather than individual meeting ,so have 6 pairs representing local towns. ____Stockton, Middlesbrough, Red car with Berwick, Newcastle and Workington.This way supporters have a local team to follow rather than just a favourite rider.

Following a comment in the Red car programme a few weeks ago about the very poor attendance at the Julie Lewis Memorial Meeting, I sent an e-mail to the promoters making a suggestion of how they could make future individual meeting more enticing. Guess what----I am still waiting for a reply even if it was just to say it was rubbish suggestion. If I cannot get a reply from my local promotion what chance getting anything from the BSPA?

This sounds like speed ways version of Brexit

Name me one wealth club ,they are all nearly bankrupt!

Due to pressing a wrong button this has gone wrong. As I was trying to say------perhaps the team manager could from the centre green give riders a signal as to what is going on.

When I was recently at Berwick they had posters in shop Windows and leaflets in the Tourist INfo centre, so they make an effort.

I totally agree with you. Last night's meeting Red car v Scunthorpe was excellent with some tremendous racing in and both sides deserve a lot of credit.However, I know that Scunthorpe have been hammered with injuries so how would I explain to a new fan that they used 3 guests and r/r to them for them to take speed way seriously.