Crump99
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Posts posted by Crump99
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6 hours ago, Sir Sidney said:It needs challenging, because too many people take it as fact, and believe that planning permission has been granted.
Don't worry about the monkey, go straight to the organ grinder on the PCC planning portal with additional comments if you've already objected, or just otherwise object if you haven't done so already. If AEPG do go to the Planning & Environmental Committe for June/July then a big push from the speedway fraternity (and others if they can be persuaded) for a couple of months can only help hopefully.
If you add additional comments then cite the source of your gripe if necessary and what it is that you disagree with. Be factual and keep the emotion to the minimum:
On 3/24/2024 at 8:54 PM, Crump99 said:Here are the two links that will take you straight to the two planning applications that have been submitted for developing the Peterborough Showground to make comments and/or objections. You can comment on both applications.
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10 hours ago, Sir Sidney said:How can the newspaper report this unchallenged and without giving the other side of the story? Very poor
They just print what they are given. Throughout the whole process it has been pretty obvious that Butterfield & AEPG like a one way conversation where they tell you what the situation is without any critical questioning from anyone knows something about the East of England Showground, it's history and Peterborough Speedway etc.
To be fair, Butterfield did take some tough questions in his January radio interview. One particularly tough question came from a 12yo, along with others apparently also from schoolchildren
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20 hours ago, Pitch said:Yes I have seen the post also, I wonder what it could be, fingers crossed hey.
I wouldn't get too excited at the moment. With AEPG making all of the noise for a good while now (and we await their next move) I suspect that we'll just push back against their waffle and vandalism and clarify a few points from the perspective of Peterborough Speedway and its consortium.
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5 hours ago, OldNutter said:While I was wandering through the planning portal looking how it was sitting within officialdom, I came across a list of important dates. One that sprang out was "The Agreed Expiry Date Sun 31 Mar 2024 ". Looking though Googledom it would seem that this date is important and signifies a seismic shift in the processes. It is apparently the date after which the first full phase of the planning cycle has come to an end with no agreement between PCC and AEPG and the process moves into the Government Planning Inspectorate.
If that's the case then I think that they decided some while ago to go that route if necessary?
The September AEPG position was reported as: " Sale of the land is expected to be approved by Spring 2024, again subject to planning approval." - one assumes that that was based on that March timeline?
5 weeks later that had changed to: "This includes the area of land the grandstand occupies and as the ownership of the land is predicted to change sometime in 2024, there is no ability to commit to a 2024 Speedway Season."
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On 4/10/2024 at 9:44 AM, Mick Bratley said:Perfectly summed up. It would be very good if you could very slightly sanitise the text and post it on the councils planning portal in response to the two applications. Your second paragraph regarding the multi use occupancy of the stadium as part of the overall development is something I have been banging on about since the start of this nonsense.
And reminds one of 23/00400/OUT Representation from Consultee (Web) Open Space Management 22/09/2023 which seemed to suggest a similar outcome and use of existing facilities? (made the ET didn't it although I think that you questioned the reporting). Wish that I'd have saved that original pdf. I didn't expect it to be removed and changed due to it not seemingly fitting the agenda.
It also said: " Further to significant Pre App dialogue with the Applicant PCC Open Space Management are disappointed with the current submission of the 2 somewhat underwhelming Applications"
Funnily enough that submission went AWOL and returned on 13/10/23 in a much changed and sanitised version!
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12 hours ago, Mick Bratley said:Perfectly summed up. It would be very good if you could very slightly sanitise the text and post it on the councils planning portal in response to the two applications. Your second paragraph regarding the multi use occupancy of the stadium as part of the overall development is something I have been banging on about since the start of this nonsense.
Yup good suggestion. Time has moved on significantly since the planning applications were posted by AEPG/PCC in 2023. The speedway fraternity was understandably initially up in arms and posted its planning portal objections to this unwanted development. Everyone can still post a further objection with additional comments (probably best to say as such to differentiate from just being viewed as a single source duplicate) now that AEPG's mercenary nature, selling strategy and reasoning has been laid bare, as well as their malicious damage inflicted on Peterborough Speedway and an important part of Peterborough's Culture, Leisure and Tourism industry for 2024 and beyond.
And just a reminder:
On 3/24/2024 at 8:54 PM, Crump99 said:Here are the two links that will take you straight to the two planning applications that have been submitted for developing the Peterborough Showground to make comments and/or objections. You can comment on both applications.
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6 hours ago, scoobydoo said:If Chapman carries out his said intention that 2024 is his last season in Speedway.
Maybe the consortium should buy the Panthers licence and use the AFA temporarily to run the Panthers team until a closer to home resolution is found for the Peterborough area,
No idea what Chapman is or isn't doing or how his mind works but when he says: "would be very happy to open talks over the ownership at an appropriate time." - I'd like to know his definition of the appropriate time?
This was 31st Oct 2023: " The Peterborough Telegraph understands talks between a six-man consortium committed to saving speedway in Peterborough and Peterborough Panthers owner Keith Chapman are ongoing, but progress has been slow." - slow without a hidden agenda, allegedly
The focus has to be the EoES, the local plan and pressure on PCC/AEPG - talk of alternatives just chips away at another element of LP30 and, as has been noted by PCC Policy, AEPG have tried to engineer avoiding responsibility under LP30 :
LP30 – Culture Leisure, Tourism and Community Facilities - Policy LP36 specifically makes reference to the requirements of Policy LP30 and the loss of existing cultural, leisure, tourism and community facilities.
The applicant will need to demonstrate that the proposals meet the requirements of points k-m, in particular with regard to the speedway track. The applications do propose to make a good, appropriate, level of sport and leisure uses. Normally, the application would not be considered to meet points k-m as they stand, as they do not provide a replacement facility for speedway use, and the speedway track was clearly fit for purpose. This has been made more complex by the Speedway club having been served notice and asked to vacate the site and remove their safety and lighting infrastructure, therefore no longer meeting point k and in no longer being fit for purpose requiring the meeting of point l and m. It is noted that Sport England have provided comments in response to
the application.There will be no local resolution if PCC buckle and AEPG win.
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On 3/22/2024 at 4:15 PM, JoeW436 said:Sucks not having a team anymore…even more so now the season has started in earnest.
And we nearly dropped off the page there. Can't be having that. Need to keep the struggling momentum/interest going. Although it's unlikely, Chapman might do the right thing and offload the club to those actually fighting for its survival?
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7 hours ago, Pinny said:Seen some video footage on social media earlier of the state the stadium is now in... such a shame. Had a couple of great days there for the PL4TT in late 90s and early 00s. Brilliant track, IMO the best in British Speedway. Now gone.
Its going to be an on going thing for stadiums that are built on other peoples land are going to continue falling by the wayside.
It's grim but it's not gone until they get planning approved. Putting that unnecessary vandalism right under the right conditions (hopefully PCC make AEPG pay as part of any agreement) has got to be preferable to starting afresh elsewhere.
With AEPG, their friends and family dumping support comments on the PCC planning portal we could do with anyone who hasn't objected, or who knows someone who hasn't, objecting to both planning applications. Doesn't have to be anything detailed, just read some of the others submissions (click Documents and View associated documents, and note that they only show address & no other detail) and write a sentence or two. It's just a numbers game and there are plenty of detailed objections already on there:
Here are the two links that will take you straight to the two planning applications that have been submitted for developing the Peterborough Showground to make comments and/or objections. You can comment on both applications.
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On 3/18/2024 at 2:46 PM, Bald Bloke said:No fool would promise what he did to the fans before engaging his brain first either , I’m afraid.
Without knowing the detail of what really went wrong, I say that his only mistake was not paying closer attention to the history of who he was dealing with and not getting a contract in writing and signed first before playing the social media game.
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9 hours ago, scoobydoo said:Until the outcome is finally resolved concerning the LP policies, it doesn't matter who is or isn't involved & the club will remain in its present state of limbo
No fool would invest a vast amount of money from there own pocket whatever there wealth if there's a chance of funds having to be made available from elsewhere.
If the club does have a future the consortium will then go though and buy out Chapman and who knows have a future plot of land ready to go or even an emotional return to the showground .
Simple equation isn't it!
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5 hours ago, TTT said:Hate to be a negative nancy but I'd just give up now tbh, Life's too short to cling on to a pipe dream that's never going to happen.
It's time to face reality imo and two obvious things make it impossible for a return even if the council did help the Panthers out as it'll just be another Brandon Stadium situation at best.
1. Tomalin's mouth can talk the talk but he cant walk the walk, Never has someone said they're going to do so much whilst producing F all.
2. Buster is an AEPG insider who wouldn't sell the club anyway due to AEPG keeping him sweet with brown envelope money and they'll continue to do so (If needed). Buster doesn't want Speedway at Peterborough full stop because it'll just cost him money and he knows full well that the vast majority of happy clapper Panthers fans will end up at KL on a regular basis to support all the faces they've been seeing for a good few years at Peterborough.
It depends what the dream and objective is? The reality is that nothing is off the table until planning is approved, or not, and explained/justified in terms of the local plan. I wouldn't throw in the towel quite yet. Getting speedway folk enthused and interested has always been like pulling teeth so no doubt the majority share your view, especially given that there in no local speedway coverage now or no outward communications from the club or alleged club saving consortium and its spokesman.
Tomalin is just one of many in the bigger picture although he was/is a big sponsor who would be needed going forward.
Chapman's continued ownership is a major problem but if AEPG think, for whatever reason, that he belongs to them then good luck with that! He'll do whatever is best for him and his pension fund irrespective of what they think.
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On 3/15/2024 at 10:26 AM, Flappy said:At best this is going to be very long winded.
I agree they should follow the local plan and provide a new venue but I have zero faith in our council or local government to actually hold these people to task.
It all feels at least a year too late and this is where Chapman needed to do more to drum up support and a challenge of Indeed he wanted to save Peterborough speedway.
I think that any outcome or timeline is possible, so until AEPG make their next planning move then it's difficult to know where we are or the direction of travel. PCC have to follow the local plan and publically justify their decisions after plenty of publicity and opposition to the planning proposals. It's not a standard nod through as it would normally be.
Although Chapman is getting all of the flak, and quite rightly so since his 2022 speech, I think that anyone in the "inner sanctum" (copyright Rodders) over the last 3 years has questions to answer. What did the supporters club do in 2023? They didn't do anything, played along to Chapman's agenda, came to the party too late and have all but given up the fight, not that it ever really started for them.
Yes it looks bad but don't give up yet!
Where's your invisible mate anyway? Never has anyone done so little but had so much alleged impact!
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On 3/12/2024 at 7:13 AM, Sir Sidney said:Keep the pressure up on the Council to enforce the Local Plan. If a new stadium is required then AEPG should pay for it.
AEPG wants everyone to give up. Don't give up.
And play close attention to all relevant aspects within the local plan as well as the submissions by major players on the PCC planning portal. It's funny that AEPG say that they and the EEAS have no future obligation to support Peterborough Speedway financially, however, they are keen to say LP36 & 30 doesn't specifically mention speedway. As the only permanent/annual regular sporting and leisure user for 49 years when the local plan was adopted, what else does LP30 allude to? Also by wrecking the speedway infrastructure & stand they are trying to engineer a position where LP30 doesn't apply, as noted by PCC Policy :
LP30 – Culture Leisure, Tourism and Community Facilities Policy LP36 specifically makes reference to the requirements of Policy LP30 and the loss of existing cultural, leisure, tourism and community facilities: The applicant will need to demonstrate that the proposals meet the requirements of points k-m, in particular with regard to the speedway track. The applications do propose to make a good, appropriate, level of sport and leisure uses. Normally, the application would not be considered to meet points k-m as they stand, as they do not provide a replacement facility for speedway use, and the speedway track was clearly fit for purpose. This has been made more complex by the Speedway club having been served notice and asked to vacate the site and remove their safety and lighting infrastructure, therefore no longer meeting point k and in no longer being fit for purpose requiring the meeting of point l and m. It is noted that Sport England have provided comments in response to the application.
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On 3/7/2024 at 10:35 AM, scoobydoo said:despite the extensive efforts of Keith Chapman and his team."
Perhaps they could do a follow up piece listing those efforts so that we can all enjoy the efforts that Chapman made behind the scenes? I saw bugger all out in the open in public!
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1 hour ago, LagutaRacingFan said:New season is approaching and it is starting to sink in that we will not be racing.
Starting
Bloody hell, been in a box for 6 months? There's a battle going on to ensure that that isn't a permanent situation. Focus on that rather than the direction Butterfield and Chapman tried to engineer!
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1 hour ago, bigcatdiary said:The grandstand has been decommissioned not demolished.
"decommissioning" interesting wording for actions that were unnecessary and IMHO done to break the will of any remaining "passionate Panthers supporters" (Butterfield's label), and to try to convince PCC that AEPG have engineered a situation where a perfect working speedway operation was handed over to them but within a few months they've wrecked it to, in their mind, meet the first part of LP30 item k.
I'm sure that their timetable had the stand remaining until 2026 at least so what's the point of tinkering? Answers on a postcard.
They said - A spokesperson for AEPG, which is the company chosen by the venue owners, the East of England Agricultural Society, to sell the land, said: “As part of the sale, the land needs to be clear of commercial operations or agreements.
By throwing Peterborough Speedway out for 2024 they'd met that objective so any of their other actions have just been malicious.
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19 hours ago, Bald Bloke said:I hope that TM eventually puts his money were his mouth is, and helps the Panthers build a new track elsewhere. But i'm not holding my breath..
Assume that's MT? He doesn't have to, that's the point. If PCC do their job then any planning approval will only be granted when AEPG meet LP36 & LP30 of the Peterborough Local Plan. AEPG are doing their best get out of any responsibility within the local plan to their destruction of an important part of Peterborough's culture and history.
An e-mail I received Aug 2023 from the EEAS suggests that AEPG don't really know whether to stick or twist on this? "AEPG may have had discussions with the current speedway operators as well as the local authority regarding the possibility of relocating to another site"
Peterborough Speedway would have a much better chance of returning to the track sooner rather than later if someone interested in that objective was the owner. Whether any of those unsubstantiated claims against Chapman ever get answered or clarified I no longer care, but he does himself no favours by continuing hold on to the licence of a club that he has no interest in. A good businessman can negotiate a sensible deal (what is he selling now anyway?) with future eventualities clauses in if the new owners are successful. The fact that he can't or will not do that only feeds the rumour mill.
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10 hours ago, Hackney said:It appears the fat lady has started singing.
Why?
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On 2/14/2024 at 7:34 AM, Steve Irving said:Why are some of you Peterborough fans still blaming Chapman? Hasn’t he given Mick Bratley and the consortium his blessing to try and negotiate themselves? How are they all getting on with that? Would you like to update everyone Mick on how much of a better fist you’re making of things than Chapman did?
Eventually through gritted teeth when it was questioned why he wasn't selling or making any attempt to take part in the campaign to save the club. Knowing that he had no interest in taking the club past 2023, wouldn't it have been better to hand the club over to those interested in 2024 and beyond? There were allegedly offers although apparently not in his preferred medium of written. If his concern was future eventualities (new track or EoES extension for instance; one assumes that's why he's clinging on to the licence) then it isn't too difficult to write that in to a contract. Bratley and Chapman are in completely different negotiating positions.
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22 hours ago, Bald Bloke said:We have had Mick Bratley on this forum
Seen it said a few times now:
Mick knows how to play the game (you'll have to put your own interpretation on that as I'll say no more!)
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On 2/14/2024 at 10:34 AM, Daniel Smith said:The biggest p*!ck the fans should be pointing the finger at is Michael "The Musk of Peterborough" Tomlin.
Opening his massive mouth, selling the dream to Peterborough fans & not backing it up.
Chapman has never wavered from closure after 2023 & he deemed it a miracle to have got that season as 2022 should have been the last. Every fan knew the situation & was dealing with it in their own mind until 'Billy Big Bollox' and his false promises opened his mouth.
I can't really get angry at Tomalin because I'm not sure that he exists.
However, what Chapman actually said on the centre green in 2022 was: "I'd love to stay at the EoES, it's the place to be. That's not going to happen we know. I do believe that there is a few more years here and that will give us time to build a new base and structure for Peterborough Speedway."
Chapman's tune changed for 2023 and he did bugger all outwardly about a new base or structure, just sung the AEPG tune all of the way through and gave them their PR coup at the end of 2023 and allegedly made more than a few quid at the same time (nothing to do with brown envelopes before anyone gets excited). The Tomalin deal reportedly broke down due to longevity of the club which was Chapman's newly found 2023 position. If Tomalin had started negotiations based on Chapman's alleged 2022 position then that would possibly have led to a deal? That was the situation that we were dealing with and what actually went on is one of those loose ends as Columbo would say. Tomalin's only mistake was not getting everything signed and sealed before playing the social media game. Perhaps he's learned if he's still around?
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On 2/10/2024 at 4:49 PM, Rickyag said:But obviously AEPG and Chapman made sure we didn`t.
You'll be telling me next that you don't believe this? - Keith Chapman said“There are no hidden agendas to what has gone on over the past 18 months"
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On 2/8/2024 at 4:11 PM, Littleze said:The grandstand was outdated, and pretty crap if we are being honest.
Needed some new bulbs but provided a seat in the dry, close to the action with good views of choice and a decent sound system. Not quite sure how you come to that conclusion.
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Peterborough Panthers 2023
in SGB Premiership Speedway League
Posted
I did the same. Can't do any harm as time moves on and the picture becomes clearer.