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woofers

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Posts posted by woofers

  1. Posted

    I really, really miss my Saturday nights at Arlington, but unfortunately I fear that speedway is not going to re-appear in the southeast of England. Look at a map of where speedway clubs are located and there is really only Poole in the south.

    I live in the Crawley area , Poole is too far for a regular fix of speedway adrenaline. Where else is there to go? In the past I would travel to Reading, Swindon, Rye House, Lakeside, Sittingbourne (Kent). With the demise of these clubs, the fact that attendances did not increase at their 'rivals' shows either a tribal mentality where supporters cannot switch allegiance to keep the sport alive, or they just can't be bothered at all. 

    My motto has always been "any speedway is better than no speedway", hence my support in the National League days, but I understand that level has been diluted now.

    I rarely look at the speedway press / website now, and too be honest some of the televised racing last year was dire, anything from the NSS being the stand out exception.

    I shan't be travelling to Cardiff, the experience I've done many times and enjoy but the racing was dire last year.

    I try not to be a 'doom' merchant but it's difficult to see an upside at the moment, but if there can be a speedway meeting at Arlington, whatever level, I'll be there.

  3. Posted

    I hope you and associates are successful.

    One thing the last 10 months have shown me is how easy it is to ‘forget’ speedway. Saturday nights have revolved around Arlington for almost 20 years but with no other speedway in the vicinity, other things have taken its place.

    I no longer log in to this site or the BSPL to see what’s going on, I have no team to support. When I watch the coverage on Eurosport I can see, as an outsider, what a challenge it is to get folk interested. The meetings are drawn out and take far too long. Sam Ermolenko is not very articulate and for all his experience hopeless at media duties. Kelvin Tatum is brilliant, knowledgable and well spoken but unfortunately he is one man band. Abbi tries hard but overdoes the enthusiasm a little.

    It really does show that speedway is a spectacle that needs to be experienced live, the sounds, smell and sheer speed cannot be captured on TV.

    I, for one, will be beating a track to Arlington as soon as you are up and running. Good luck.

    • Like 3

  4. Posted

    On 11/30/2021 at 1:12 PM, mikebv said:

    If you 'withdraw your services' when not getting paid, you get banned for 28 days...

    Meaning you could lose more in future earnings than you are actually owed...

    Not much therefore, in the way of proper options  for the riders is there?

    Does the Captain not still sign that declaration that no money is owed? 

    And didn't the bond used to be £50k in either assets or cash?  

    Presume that has changed?

    There is a particular section in the meeting certificate (which the Clerk of the Course must ensure is completed and given to the Referee before the start of the meeting) as follows:

     “We being the TEAM CAPTAINS certify that all monies due to each member of the Team have been paid as per the Riders Agreement except as listed below”

    Regardless of whether this section shows nothing, or there a list of unpaid riders on the certificate, the referee would know about it. 

    But what would the referees duty be, even if they were aware of riders not being paid? Report it to the BSPA? Include it in their meeting report? Or pass the certificate over and assume someone else follows it up?

    And what does “paid as per the Riders Agreement” mean? Would the team captain be privy to contractual arrangements?

    Anyway, this really belongs in the past Eastbourne thread, or a General Speedway discussion rather than tainting the current one which is forward looking.

  5. Posted

    8 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

    There will be other mini league competitions

    A 4TT league every track hosts a round

    A Premiership Best Pairs Championship where clubs will host a round each 

    Plus a Premier League riders championship again every club hosting a round

    Potential for a league cup competition 2 groups of 3 home and away once each group winner into a final 

    I think there will be a limit to just how many times people will be prepared to watch the same riders no matter how you dress it up.

    • Like 4

  6. Posted

    22 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said:

    After being brought up on top flight speedway, I was dubious about dropping a league. Reality is that it’s better. Virtually the same riders and more teams. What’s not to like? Roll in 2022 and let’s do it all again.

    Fair play to you Steve for owning up to that. I just hope that something can be rescued from the Eastbourne / Kent situation next year otherwise it’s a sad story for speedway in the south east, non existent, and many supporters won’t return in future.

  8. Posted · Edited by woofers

    How long had the riders not been paid for?

    There is a particular section in the meeting certificate (which the Clerk of the Course must ensure is completed and given to the Referee before the start of the meeting) as follows:

    “We being the TEAM CAPTAINS certify that all monies due to each member of the Team have been paid as per the Riders Agreement except as listed below”

    If it’s as long as being suggested, either the certificates were signed in ignorance or unchecked, or there was a list of unpaid riders on the certificate each time which the referee would have known about. But what would the referees duty be, even if they were aware of riders not being paid? Report it to the BSPA? Include it in their meeting report? Or pass the certificate over and assume someone else follows it up?

  9. Posted

    27 minutes ago, hammer1969 said:

    I wonder where this all leaves Les Fineing of Fineprints as according to Companies House records he is joint shareholder with Ian Jordan which I would imagine would make him 50% responsible for any monies owed.  Last time I heard Les Fineing mentioned at Arlington he had just come out of hospital after having heart surgery

    It’s a limited liability company so there is no apportionment of debt or responsibility to shareholders. Les would only be liable for any monies owing under a directors guarantee that he may have signed up to.

    • Thanks 1

  10. Posted

    1 hour ago, cityrebel said:

    I'm owed money, but it wouldn't stop me going again. Not everybody will be on board though.

    I’m the same, I’d go but would probably pay each week, as the season ticket savings are usually marginal anyway.

    But….I’m not sure I could stomach NL level ‘racing’ on the basis of the NL / ‘second halves’ I saw this year. It was miles away from the product we saw when in the NL of 2017 and 2018. With respect, many of the guys struggled to turn the bikes and the races were more akin to strung out ‘demonstration’ or training laps. No one is going to do a 100 mile round trip to watch that regularly.

    To be honest the whole structure of British Speedway needs a review, the Premiership is tedious with just 6 clubs (and Wolves won’t support that again). It is laughable to an outsider that with the current Premiership / Championship set up, the same riders race against each other on a regular basis but in different leagues and clubs. At least with the lack of national media coverage we are saved the embarrassment of that being ‘exposed’ to other sports people. (Or perhaps that would be the kick start to making changes?)

  13. Posted

    5 hours ago, geoff100 said:

    Shall we try guess who was first rider to want to leave them??

    Would guess Lawson and Kerr were the two ‘leavers’, Kennett the retiree, and lionsfan2012 the first to state £50k on speedway updates.

    Wonder which Promoter objected to the Team GB U23 fixture taking place, despite it being scheduled in an Eastbourne ‘protected slot’?

    There is a wealth of information in this article that sheds new light on the actual running of speedway in Britain and locally at Eastbourne, some of which will put the ‘know all’s’ on here back in their box, but other aspects that have never been spoken about. It’s a fascinating and insightful Q&A session, and as far as I can make out, open, transparent and honest - something Ian Jordan has always been. I will miss his enthusiasm, bravado and telling it how it is.

    • Like 3

  16. Posted

    2 hours ago, rocket007 said:

    So it's ok for Eastbourne to run up big debts, close down then re-open under a different company not owing anything. What about the poor sod's out of pocket, or is that just tough luck. If Eastbourne want to open again, all previous debts should be paid off first.

    That’s how any limited liability company works, and it happens. Small company directors usually have to give personal guarantees to cover any loans or debts, I doubt that Ian Jordan is walking away from this laughing, and I suspect he is out of pocket to a bigger tune than any of us, because as it stands I won’t be out of pocket, I’ve just received an email regarding my season ticket refund.

  17. Posted

    As I mentioned earlier, I’m not sure Eastbourne were the most popular promotion at the BSPL, and probably haven’t received a Christmas Card from them for some years. Ian Jordan has on more than one occasion mentioned his gratitude to Glasgow for single handedly  siding with them on the 2021 team building / points issues, so that probably put their noses out of joint to start with.

  18. Posted

    19 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said:

    That was positive but were there any things which changed what was on offer to the person who attended, or was it  "some intro music, riders appear on bikes/line up and are introduced, toss a coin, 15 races interspersed with hits of the 80s and a bloke driving a tractor and someone saying it's Bert's birthday next week, next up is heat 3 etc. whilst the person stands around in the cold checking their social media and writing out their shopping list/picking their nails."  This is not a criticism of Eastbourne because that's exactly what I see at many other tracks.  'Kids go free' has made me attend and a friend of mine but when there are are looking for something else to do, not just watch the racing.

    OK, so what do you suggest? What happens at other events that could be drawn in to speedway ?

  19. Posted

    There’s a lot of “advice” being bandied about on here with the benefit of hindsight, some of it more logical than others, although I’m not sure all of the criticism is warranted.

    However, I don’t think it’s as cut and dried as appears and there will have been “goings on” behind the scenes which may (Eastbourne) or may not (BSPL) be revealed.

    A few things spring to mind:  

    Regarding promoting and bringing new ideas, embracing social media etc etc, look back to the start of 2019 and see how much effort was put into revitalising Eastbourne Speedway, there was no lack of effort in branding, merchandising, sponsorship, Eagles website etc etc which on the whole was well received and applauded. Ian Jordan has been as open and honest as anyone I can recall involved in speedway, and operates on a “speculate to accumulate” basis - on this occasion it doesn’t appear to have worked but not through lack of vision or effort.

    Then there was the actual business of the BSPL actually accepting Eastbourne and Birmingham into the Championship, (remember every announcement of the BSP website stating their applications were under review pending required criteria). It did drag on. Is it a coincidence that both these clubs are in financial difficulty? Probably a coincidence. But were the BSPL lenient in granting licences, or guarantees or did they require additional sums? 

    I’m not keen on the way the BSPL requested Eastbourne say nothing on Tuesday, “following protocols”.  It’s clear who’s running the show isn’t it? Noteworthy that Eastbourne aren’t signed up to the subscribers of BSPL.

    It’s no secret that I hold the BSPL with a degree of disdain and the official announcement today on their website clarifies the lack of professionalism they operate under - the headline makes no mention of Eastbourne, the first sentence reads “confirm with withdrawal” instead of “confirm the withdrawal” and the fourth paragraph uses “famous” twice in short succession, all something a PR officer should pick up on. Obviously this press release wasn’t proof read, although it must have been in the making for some days.

    I wonder if the BSPL really do “realise the impact this will have on the sport in general, and the Championship in particular” and just what are the “thoughts” they are offering to the supporters, riders, officials etc etc. Perhaps they’re pleased to see the back of Eastbourne, who have been a thorn in their side for some time….

    • Like 1

  21. Posted

    2 hours ago, hammer1969 said:

    Every club I've supported has gone starting with West Ham, followed by Rye House and now Eastie not to mention all the others I've visited regularly over the years, Hackney, Wimbledon, Romford, Lakeside to name just a few.

    So it’s your fault then ! (only joking).

  23. Posted · Edited by woofers

    There has always been some doubt about the ability of Eastbourne to survive, even in the last days of the old Elite league, Bob Dugard was bank rolling the operation and laughed at anyone who asked about the returns from Speedway.

    The product has been on its knees for years, but any new promoter or anyone with new ideas seems to get short shrift from the BSPL mafia. Bob Brimson tried, and was hugely critical of those running the top administration, he said something along the lines of “I’ve dealt with shady characters in the music business but nothing like the people in Speedway”. Rick Frost (Peterborough) gave a similar impression when interviewed at Arlington.

    If the product and business plans of the top clubs is so good, why has Buster Chapman got fingers in three clubs ?

    If the administration of the BSPL / SCB / ACU is so good why are we still awaiting the result of the “full investigation” of the last minute cancellation of the final National League meeting Eastbourne v Mildenhall in 2018? (Mildenhall called off). Because there wasn’t one, despite all the PR crap that followed.

    Is there truth in the posting on this site that Godfrey has all the new tyres and teams have to collect and pay him for them?

    I wouldn’t trust the BSPL for anything (they can’t even draft their memorandum and articles of association correctly, and always screw up writing the rules so ambiguity creeps in).

    Speedway needs an independent body to run it. The current operating model is outdated and broken all round. 

    It will hurt me if Eastbourne fold, I have supported them for 15 years, a season ticket holder and generous contributor to various funds, I sincerely hope something can be rescued, perhaps next year. My mantra during the NL years was some speedway is better than no speedway, but I’m not optimistic.

     

    • Like 10
    • Thanks 1

  25. Posted

    6 minutes ago, Marky_Mark said:

    Ian has just confirmed that he has not left and there will be a factual statement released tonight.

    He has also stated that whilst there are known cash flow issues, everybody will be paid their money.

    Lets wait for the statement, as he has also said that lots of the rumours are inaccurate.

    First sign of something positive for a couple of days, fingers crossed Eastbourne can pull through.

    (The rumoured stadium rent issue is odd to me and would only make sense if the landlords feel they can replace the speedway rent with something more profitable, surely an income stream is better than no income ?)

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