June01 269 Posted February 12, 2016 http://speedwayzone.dk/u21em-1978 Pretty good Website for all the U-21s Thanks, but I know the author, and those results come from Wiki. What I'm really after is either someone who has a completed programme, or confirmation the 4th post in the thread is from the SS. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveallan81 330 Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Speedway Star w/e 29/07/78 reports: F. Jensen (Denmark) 13 K. Jolly (England) 12 N. Middleditch (England) 12 S. Finch (England) 12 E. Gundersen (Denmark) 11 H. Nielsen (Denmark) 10 B. Karnas (Czechoslovakia) 8 J. Juza (Czechoslovakia) 8 O. Keirjk (Poland) 6 B. Rjszild (Poland) 6 F. Birbini (Italy) 5 U. Johansson (Sweden) 5 H. Mananiv (Bulgaria) 4 K. Nieuzjsliw (Poland) 4 A. Gigioli (Italy) 2 J. Romin (Poland) 2 Scan of the report here https://app.box.com/s/4hgjlbo0g68qap5jev149v81yq7ati9g Edited February 12, 2016 by daveallan81 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andout 651 Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) OK so here you go, straight from the programme.....so much for the so-called official scores. The first column are the riding numbers and changes are in RED Hope this helps. Haven't been on the BSF for a long time, I see not too much has changed. 12 1 Finn Jensen Denmark 13 14 13 Kevin Jolly England 3 1216 Neil Middledith England 2 1215 Steve Finch England 1 1206 Erik Gundersen Denmark 11 1005 Hans Nielsen Denmark 1004 Josef Juza Czech Republic 808 Pavel Karnas Czech Republic 810 Henryk Olszak Poland 602 Ryszard Romaniak Poland 607 Fausto Birbini Italy 511 Lillebror Johansson Sweden 514 Nikolaj Manev Bulgaria 409 Mieczyslaw Kmieciak Poland 401 Armando Gigliali Italy 203 Roman Jankowski Poland 2 Finn Jensen was beaten in his last ride by Kevin Jolly. Edited February 13, 2016 by andout 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
June01 269 Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) Thank you, andout, that looks much more like it. Given the SS's rider lineup I'm not convinced they were actually at the same meeting anyway! Quite worrying that out of all available sources not one has the meeting winner's score correct. Thanks again. I don't suppose you have the 1979 final scores as well, do you (she asks cheekily but hopefully!) as there seem to be several discrepancies on that too? Edited February 13, 2016 by June01 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveallan81 330 Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) Are you willing to accept Jensen's score of 14 and Gundersen's 10 at face value or do you have other results to back that up? Download the file above again - I've added reports from the following weeks' Star that mention Jensen's 13 and Gundersen finishing 5th. The 1986 yearbook page is also attached at the back. Edited February 13, 2016 by daveallan81 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
June01 269 Posted February 13, 2016 Are you willing to accept Jensen's score of 14 and Gundersen's 10 at face value or do you have other results to back that up? Download the file above again - I've added reports from the following weeks' Star that mention Jensen's 13 and Gundersen finishing 5th. The 1986 yearbook page is also attached at the back. I’m sure I work out my results the same way as you do – take the results, the riding order and the heat format to work out the heat details. I’m terribly anal when it comes to making sure my results are correct before I post them, and use as many sources as possible, which means it can take hours, or even days, to collate, cross reference, total and re-check. In this instance, and having started the heat detail process as I usually do, I have no issues with any riders’ scores except the four previously mentioned – Olszak, Nielsen and now Gundersen and Jensen. In answer to your question of whether I’m happy to accept the above poster’s result as definitive, well, no. I only had a quick look this morning without all the details in front of me, saw the “10” in red, and figured that was “end of problem”. I assumed Jensen’s 14 would fit in with the format/results when revised, and that it could have been a simple typo in the original report that filtered through to other sources...and who am I to question someone who was actually there?! But now I’ve gone through the whole thing I am convinced Olszak (assuming he is O Keirjk in the SS?) and Nielsen scored 6 and 10 respectively, and thanks to your posting of the article which states “Jolly was one of two riders to beat Jensen. The other was…Gundersen” I’m also convinced Jensen finished on 13. So it’s taken much longer than usual, but I think I’m finally there. Thanks to each and every poster on this thread, as your information has been invaluable, and here is what I think the final result was: Junior European Championship - Lonigo - 22.07.78 1..Armando Gigliali (ITA)..0,0,0,1,1 = 2 2..Ryszard Romaniak (POL)..2,1,1,0,2 = 6 3..Roman Jankowski (POL)..1,1,0,0,0 = 2 4..Pavel Karnas (CZR)..3,1,3,1,0 = 8 5..Hans Nielsen (DEN)..3,3,0,1,3 = 10 6..Erik Gundersen (DEN)..2,2,3,2,2 = 11 7..Fausto Birbini (ITA)..0,0,2,2,1 = 5 8..Josef Juza (CZR)..1,0,3,2,2 = 8 9..Mieczyslaw Kmieciak (POL)..2,1,1,0,0 = 4 10..Henryk Olszak (POL)..1,3,0,2,0 = 6 11..Lillebror Johansson (SWE)..0,2,1,1,1 = 5 12..Finn Jensen (DEN)..3,3,3,3,1 = 13 - 1st 13..Kevin Jolly (GBR)..3,2,1,3,3 = 12 - 2nd 14..Nikolai Manev (BUL)..0,0,2,0,2 = 4 15..Steve Finch (GBR)..1,3,2,3,3 = 12 16..Neil Middleditch (GBR)..2,2,2,3,3 = 12 - 3rd 17..[R]..Ladislav Hradecky (CZR)..DNR 18..[R]..Danny Kennedy (AUS)..DNR Ht 1..Karnas, Romaniak, Jankowski, Gigliali [F/Ex] Ht 2..Nielsen, Gundersen, Juza, Birbini Ht 3..Jensen, Kmieciak, Olszak, Johansson Ht 4..Jolly, Middleditch, Finch, Manev [Ex] Ht 5..Nielsen, Jolly, Kmieciak, Gigliali Ht 6..Olszak, Gundersen, Romaniak, Manev Ht 7..Finch, Johansson, Jankowski, Birbini Ht 8..Jensen, Middleditch, Karnas, Juza Ht 9..Gundersen, Middleditch, Johansson, Gigliali Ht 10..Jensen, Finch, Romaniak, Nielsen [F/Ex] Ht 11..Juza, Manev, Kmieciak, Jankowski Ht 12..Karnas, Birbini, Jolly, Olszak Ht 13..Jensen, Birbini, Gigliali, Manev Ht 14..Jolly, Juza, Johansson, Romaniak Ht 15..Middleditch, Olszak, Nielsen, Jankowski Ht 16..Finch, Gundersen, Karnas, Kmieciak Ht 17..Finch, Juza, Gigliali, Olszak Ht 18..Middleditch, Romaniak, Birbini, Kmieciak Ht 19..Jolly, Gundersen, Jensen, Jankowski Ht 20..Nielsen, Manev, Johansson, Karnas Ht 21..Jolly, Middleditch, Finch Please feel free to correct me, but be aware that if I have to go through it all again I may cry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andout 651 Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) Obviously it does not agree with my filled in programme but a mistake could have happened.....anyway, yes I do have the 1979 programme and its filled in. However, I do not speak or read Russian so this one is going to be more difficult.....if you can tell me what you need I can look it up, ideally if you have a riding order it would make it much easier. Edited February 13, 2016 by andout Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,633 Posted February 13, 2016 ..anyway, yes I do have the 1979 programme and its filled in. However, I do not speak or read Russian so this one is going to be more difficult.....if you can tell me what you need I can look it up, ideally if you have a riding order it would make it much easier. It should look like this: 1(2) Рон Престон (США) (1,3,3,3,3) - 13 2(3) Айрат Файзуллин (СССР) (3,п,3,3,3) - 12 3(4) Ари Копонен (Финляндия) (2,сх,3,3,3) - 11 ------------------------------------------------------------- 4(12) Кнуд Элегаард (Дания) (3,3,2,ф,2) - 10 5(7) Андерс Эрикссон (Швеция) (1,3,2,2,2) - 10 6(1) Станислав Урбан (ЧССР) (0,2,1,3,3) - 9 7(11) Збишек Холли (ЧССР) (п,2,3,2,2) - 9 8(13) Тронд Хельге Скреттинг (Норвегия) (3,3,1,1,п) - 8 9(5) Марек Кепа (Польша) (3,1,0,2,0) - 6 10(10) Яромир Бартош (ЧССР) (2,2,0,0,2) - 6 11(16) Владимир Панькин (СССР) (п,2,2,1,1) - 6 12(8) Стефан Береч (Венгрия) (2,1,1,0,1) - 5 13(14) Йозеф Айгнер (ФРГ) (2,1,0,1,1) - 5 14(15) Ханс Альберт Клинг (Дания) (1,1,1,2,0) - 5 15(9) Ян Эрикссон (Швеция) (1,0,2,с,0) - 3 16(6) Фаусто Бирбини (Италия) (0,0,0,1,ф) - 1 R1-Карл Бидерсбергер (Дания) R2-Кристиан Брандт (ФРГ) 1 (2), Ron Preston (USA) (1,3,3,3,3) - 13 2 (3) Ayrat Fayzullin (USSR), (3, f, 3,3,3) - 12 3 (4) Ari Koponen (Finland) (2 r, 3,3,3) - 11 -------------------------------------------------- ----------- 4 (12) Knud Ellegaard (Denmark) (3,3,2, xt, 2) - 10 5 (7), Anders Eriksson (Sweden) (1,3,2,2,2) - 10 6 (1) Stanislav Urban (Czech.) (0,2,1,3,3) - 9 7 (11) Zbyshek Holy (Czech.) (f, 2,3,2,2) - 9 8 (13) Trond Helge Skretting (Norway) (3,3,1,1, f) - 8 9 (5) Marek Kepa (Poland) (3,1,0,2,0) - 6 10 (10) Jaromir Bartos (Czech.) (2,2,0,0,2) - 6 11 (16) Vladimir Pankin (USSR) (f, 2,2,1,1) - 6 12 (8) Stefan Berecz (Hungary) (2,1,1,0,1) - 5 13 (14) Josef Aigner (Germany) (2,1,0,1,1) - 5 14 (15) Hans Albert Klinge (Denmark) (1,1,1,2,0) - 5 15 (9) Jan Eriksson (Sweden) (1,0,2, r, 0) - 3 16 (6) Fausto Birbini (Italy) (0,0,0,1, xt) - 1 R1-Carl Bidersberger (Denmark) R2-Christian Brandt (Germany) In a previous iteration the three falls are marked as exclusions (и) so best guess is they should be fx. Source: http://www.russpeedway.info/forum/showthread.php?t=2292&page=2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
June01 269 Posted February 13, 2016 Thanks, Arnie. Just wanted confirmation on the final scores for riders 5 (Marek Kepa), 7 (Anders Eriksson), 11 (Zbyszek Holy), 12 (Knud Ellegard), 14 (Josef Aigner) and 15 (Hans Albert Klinge) please, as speedway org say 8,9,7,11,4 and 6 points respectively. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andout 651 Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) Oh dear...here we go again.....my programme is filled out in good handwriting and there are differences.... 5 (7) 13221 9 7 (11) 01322 8 11(16) 02212 7 13 (15) 12120 6 I think I would take yours arnieg as correct but its interesting, even Russian fans make mistakes....LOL Edited February 13, 2016 by andout 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
June01 269 Posted February 13, 2016 So your programme and speedway.org seem to agree, and arnie's link and Wikipedia seem to tally. The joys of statistics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Puma23 27 Posted March 6, 2016 Complete results 1977-2016 http://www.historyspeedway.nstrefa.pl/mims.php 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
