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I think that you're all kind of missing the fact that being in the GP's is also absolutely vital to pick up your big sponsorship. Its a lot easier to attract the big payers with the television coverage provided by the Grand Prix series.

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I think that you're all kind of missing the fact that being in the GP's is also absolutely vital to pick up your big sponsorship.

 

Sure, but what do the domestic competitions get out of it?

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Sorry Kev, not completely understanding your question. But if you're asking what British speedway gets from the GP's?

 

- The fact that people see it on the TV and want to go and watch it live at their local track

 

- It cant be denied that the top riders attract extra people through the turnstiles, people want to see the current world champ riding on their track.

 

Of course I,m not talking about regular supporters, as we will go to every meeting regardless but new people coming into the sport.

 

As for domestic competitions, as far as Im concerned the GP didnt affect them too badly this season? There were no GP rider restrictions this year and yet most teams managed to get their weekly meetings on during a GP week. In fact some teams (Eastbourne) just ran without their GP riders.

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- The fact that people see it on the TV and want to go and watch it live at their local track

 

I think that was the hope, but I don't think we can honestly say that we've seen an increase in domestic attendances over the past six years. In fact, I'd say we've seen the opposite, and I suspect much of that is down to the irregular schedules and missing riders caused by the SGP.

 

- It cant be denied that the top riders attract extra people through the turnstiles, people want to see the current world champ riding on their track.

 

True, but that was also the case with the old World Championship which didn't cause anything like the same disruption.

 

As for domestic competitions, as far as Im concerned the GP didnt affect them too badly this season?

 

Friday and Saturday night teams can't ride on ten prime weeks of the season (if you include the SWC), and there were still far too many instances of GP'itis.

 

In fact some teams (Eastbourne) just ran without their GP riders.

 

Do you consider that acceptable to the paying public, particularly if they're getting no obvious benefit from the SGP?

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Some vaild points there Kevin, but I think that the only real option is for a change of race night. I think that Eastbourne are already considering running on a different night to Saturday for example.

 

They wont go back to a one off final and so GP's will continue to run, and squad systems wont make too much difference as you are saying that its cheating the public to run without the GP riders.

 

Personally I would rather watch a few meetings each season without the GP riders than not see them here at all, which would inevitably happen if you forced riders to choose between the two. Sure you may have one or two that opt to pull out but most of them could still earn good money riding GP's, Sweden and Poland.

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I think that the only real option is for a change of race night.

 

But why should British teams be forced to fit-in with the SGP, when they get nothing out of it?

 

They wont go back to a one off final and so GP's will continue to run

 

I agree and I don't advocate a return to a one-off final. However, the SGP should be (or at least should have been) run for the benefit of the domestic leagues which provide the bulk of the riders' income, rather than a private company (not that I'm knocking them for taking the opportunity).

 

In cricket, test and one-day matches provide most of the income of the English (and Welsh) county teams, so it's perfectly reasonable for the national team to call-up riders at the expense of the domestic programme. This is not the case with the SGP, which as far as I know, pays absolutely nothing to the leagues that develop the riders in the first place.

 

Sure you may have one or two that opt to pull out but most of them could still earn good money riding GP's, Sweden and Poland.

 

I don't actually think you'd lose that many riders from Britain, but even if we lost all the SGP riders, I think it's a price worth paying to have a credible domestic competition again.

 

In reality, I think such action might force a compromise - such as a limited number of GPs (say six) during the season, a percentage of the SGP income (when it reaches a certain level) going to the leagues providing the riders, and no arbitrary arranging of cancelled GPs.

Edited by Kevin Meynell

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I think that you're all kind of missing the fact that being in the GP's is also absolutely vital to pick up your big sponsorship. Its a lot easier to attract the big payers with the television coverage provided by the Grand Prix series.

It's needed too isn't it to be able to afford to run in the GP's??

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Sure you may have one or two that opt to pull out but most of them could still earn good money riding GP's, Sweden and Poland.

 

I don't actually think you'd lose that many riders from Britain, but even if we lost all the SGP riders, I think it's a price worth paying to have a credible domestic competition again.

 

In reality, I think such action might force a compromise - such as a limited number of GPs (say six) during the season, a percentage of the SGP income (when it reaches a certain level) going to the leagues providing the riders, and no arbitrary arranging of cancelled GPs.

 

Sorry Kev, cant agree there. I would certainly not rather lose all SGP riders, and Im sure the league would be worse off with their absence. I do completely agree with you that the British league should not be inconvenienced either, my only answer to it is to run each week as normal and when GP riders are away you will simply have to run without them. As I said earlier on, I would rather have GP riders missing a few of my teams meetings than not seeing them at all.

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Kevin may i ask why should bsi pay money to anybody, ie bspa or so on. British speedway has caused many problems for the s.g.p in the past. When a rider is invited into the s.g.p he signs a contract which overules all other contracts, this means the s.g.p comes first. No rider will put domestic speedway before s.g.p.

I think british speedway to be very stale and boring at the moment and only watch g.p racing, if riders are made to pick it will be even worse as we all know what the answer will be.

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Kevin may i ask why should bsi pay money to anybody

 

BSI does not develop the riders that it uses for the SGP, but relies on the national leagues (not just in Britain) to provide them. Some develop them to a greater or lesser extent, but without domestic competition and the wages it provides, there simply wouldn't be a SGP. In return, the SGP uses the riders at will, disrupts domestic league programmes, and offers nothing in the way of compensation.

 

British speedway has caused many problems for the s.g.p in the past.

 

Even if it did, I think it has every right to do so whilst riders rely on Britain for the bulk of their wages (not ignoring Poland and Sweden either).

 

When a rider is invited into the s.g.p he signs a contract which overules all other contracts, this means the s.g.p comes first.

 

I'm well aware of that, because events run under the auspices of the oh-so-representive FIM take priority. It doesn't make it right though.

 

No rider will put domestic speedway before s.g.p.

 

Well it would be interesting to put that to the test if an ultimatum was made. Do you think that riders could make a living solely out of the SGP as things stand at the moment?

 

I think british speedway to be very stale and boring at the moment

 

There is no doubt that British speedway has big problems of its own making, but that isn't the issue here.

 

and only watch g.p racing

 

Much of the interest in the SGP is by virtue of the participating riders' links to domestic teams. If you took that out of the equation, then I think the SGP would have very limited appeal.

 

In fact, we're already seeing that reflected in the poor attendances at the majority of the GPs. The expansion of the SGP has not been a huge success (except for one person), which demonstrates there is only a finite amount of interest in seeing the same riders race over-and-over again in individual competition.

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When a rider is invited into the s.g.p he signs a contract which overules all other contracts, this means the s.g.p comes first.

He has no choice but to do so does he?

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Well it would be interesting to put that to the test if an ultimatum was made. Do you think that riders could make a living solely out of the SGP as things stand at the moment?

Hi Kevin,

 

Just playing devils advocate as ever here ;)

 

I think the foreign-based riders riding in the GPs are clearly starting to disregard the EL as a potential income source, when comparing it to the number of fixtures/irregularity and other shenanigans involved in riding in the UK. AJ coming out with a statement saying he is not prepared to do a full season in my opinion is quite significant and hopefully something taken on board at the AGM.

 

Is that what the EL wants or do they want to accomodate the likes of Rickardsson and Gollob (what a sad loss to the UK that is) - I'm sure most fans would prefer to see these kind of top-line riders occasionally rather than not at all.

 

I take on board your points about developing riders Kevin and how you feel the national leagues deserve compensation. As far as Britain is concerned, don't the BSPA make some sort of profit out of Cardiff ?? They certainly are involved in the event.

 

Rico :rolleyes:

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Rico,

 

I think the foreign-based riders riding in the GPs are clearly starting to disregard the EL as a potential income source, when comparing it to the number of fixtures/irregularity and other shenanigans involved in riding in the UK.

 

I agree that the BEL is increasingly becoming an irrelevance, but I think you have to separate the issues. The SGP could not exist without one or more of the national leagues, whether those are in Britain, Poland and Sweden. The Polish and Swedish leagues also get nothing out of the SGP, so even if the BEL is ultimately ignored, the same issues will apply to them.

 

At the moment, the SGP hasn't directly come into conflict with the other national leagues, but could easily happen if it expanded much further. In particular, Poland with its Sunday raceday could easily be disrupted if GPs were postponed or held in difficult to travel places. As Polish fans much prefer team over individual racing (judging by the crowds), I wonder how long they would put-up with things?

 

As far as Britain is concerned, don't the BSPA make some sort of profit out of Cardiff ?

 

Well, at least one person does :-)

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At the moment, the SGP hasn't directly come into conflict with the other national leagues, but could easily happen if it expanded much further. In particular, Poland with its Sunday raceday could easily be disrupted if GPs were postponed or held in difficult to travel places. As Polish fans much prefer team over individual racing (judging by the crowds), I wonder how long they would put-up with things?

Hi Kevin,

 

Difference between Polish and Swedish leagues and the BEL, as I know very well you are aware, is that the number of matches are a lot less as teams generally only ride at home every other match. I am 99.9% certain that the Polish league does not run after every GP, so unless they moved every round out of Europe I doubt there will be much disruption to their schedules.

 

Why oh why does a BEL team need to run a 36 match league to find out the top half of the table for play-offs ? Overkill and the perceived need to run speedway at the track every week. Does this boil down to the need to use their (generally) rented stadia so many times over the course of a season or the demands of the consumer, us fans? Make the league special, the BIG one, allow squads that mean the missing and potentially missing riders actually WANT to ride in our flagship team competition.

 

Personally I'd love to see a league that had all the top guys in it, meetings could actually become things I'd look forward to going along to and I'd happily travel further if I felt the product was worthwhile going to see. As it is I reckon I've done 3 or 4 EL meets this season as the product doesn't particularly excite me and entice me to make the effort (I've got 2 tracks within 40 odd miles of home). Just to make sure this post has some relevance to the GPs, I reckon I've probably been to as many GPs as EL matches in a season, despite one product being virtually on my doorstep.

 

Well, at least one person does :-)

Just what are you suggesting Kevin :o , I thought it was the BSPA who were involved in the event.

 

Rico :rolleyes:

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Difference between Polish and Swedish leagues and the BEL, as I know very well you are aware, is that the number of matches are a lot less

 

Sure, but whether those leagues are able to fit their matches around the SGP isn't really the issue (although it makes the situation less critical). They are still producing the riders that the SGP uses, and receive nothing in return for that (except a lot of grief in the case of the 2003 Scandinavian GP)

 

I am 99.9% certain that the Polish league does not run after every GP

 

The 20 match schedule currently run by the Polish League can just about be fitted around the 9 GPs, but if the SGP expanded any further, it would very quickly run into conflict.

 

Why oh why does a BEL team need to run a 36 match league to find out the top half of the table for play-offs ?

 

The British leagues have for years worked on the basis of staging 20-25 home meetings each season. This allows the fixed operating costs to be amortised as much as possible.

 

I suppose you could reduce the overall number of meetings, but you would still have the same fixed costs (signing-on fees, equipment provision, running the back office etc..). There is also the problem that most promotions are tenants, and if they staged less meetings, stadiums might start looking to other things to replace speedway. In fact, we've already started to see this with a number of stadiums (e.g. Oxford).

 

I actually agree with you that riding only once at home every two weeks or so may not be detrimental, particularly since that's what the average is now (19 guaranteed home meetings in a 32-week season) with the current disjointed fixture list. However, neither would I like to see a Polish-style season with only 10 home meetings.

 

Perhaps the top-flight fixtures could be structured around two-levels of competition, with the SGP stars only appearing in one of them. However, I'm not really convinced that fans would turn-out to support the perceived lesser meetings in any great numbers, even though they'd be necessary to make the British speedway financially viable.

 

In all honesty, I don't really know what the way forward for British speedway is anymore. The three big national leagues should never have relinquished the effective rights to the World Championship to a private company, but now that the FIM has sold-out for the next 20 years, it will be very difficult to get them back. I do believe though, that the SGP needs the national leagues for its continued existence, and if it forgets that fact, then it will itself have a short existence.

 

As it is I reckon I've done 3 or 4 EL meets this season as the product doesn't particularly excite me

 

As I said, I think the BEL has big problems with its product, but at the end of the day, it was team racing that got me interested in the sport and I'd can't see the SGP ever being an adequate replacement.

 

I thought it was the BSPA who were involved in the event.

 

And who is the BSPA? :)

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