Costs Of Speedway A Joke

[pablo133 49]

the cost must be massive to be competitive buying new engines then having to spend a fortune on them before you can race is a joke, the rules shoud be changes where by say 2007 only bog standard engines with NO modifications can be used including carbs etc this would give riders 2 seasons to sort out new standard engines where the old modified will be well worn out.

this would mean a massive saving to riders in the long term as blown engines would hopefully become reduced and think how the racing would improve youd have close races and only ability will shine through not just gaters winning with the fastest bikes . it would be interesting to see what the riders think would it work or not ??

[AndyM 1]

Pablo, I've been saying for years that machinery should be standardised, slowed down and simplified to cut costs and make the kit more reliable and longer-lasting, all the more relevant in the light of what F1 is doing.

 

There would of course be more benefits too - it might equalise the field, make for greater entertainment value, put the emphasis back on skill and teamwork rather than out-and-out speed and hopefully cut injuries in the process.

 

The BSPA have had several opportunities to do this in the past, but have shied away every time. They did look into the idea of running a tender for the supply of all engines for a season from one factory (eg. Jawa or GM), but beat a hasty retreat when one (Jawa I think) threatened legal action. The bulk-buy standardisation should have been pursued, since it could have saved the sport an absolute fortune, but I can't see anyone taking it on now.

 

In my estimation, it would not be at all difficult to provide a machine specification that is much cheaper to buy and maintain, if anyone has the courage to do so. Why is this not on the promoter's agenda?

[cpbyles 0]

Pablo, I've been saying for years that machinery should be standardised, slowed down and simplified to cut costs and make the kit more reliable and longer-lasting, all the more relevant in the light of what F1 is doing. 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Excellent idea !! - How about we ban all 4-valves, dirt deflectors, laydowns and buy up all the old J.A.P motors we can find knocking around in sheds. We could make all riders wear just BLACK leathers with no Logo's on and admissions would then plummet to 1 shilling and sixpence and the Governing body could dictate who rides for which team - how about it promoters ?

[AndyM 1]

Obviously what I meant

 

You don't need to uninvent technology to simplify or standardise it, as proven by F1. But the alternative is costs spiralling out of control, speedway becoming uneconomic and contracting still further. Or maybe that's what you'd prefer, because the costs certainly aren't reducing at the moment!

[Trees 2,814]

cpbyles - sarcasm is the lowest form of wit

 

On the face of it standard engines seems the way to go to lower costs for the riders, trouble is not all standard engines perform the same which will obviously cause problems within a team.

 

Could a rider make enough adjustments to the bike to suit his style of racing if the engine was standard?

[cpbyles 0]

cpbyles - sarcasm is the lowest form of wit 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Absolutely, I forgot humour was frowned upon !!

 

The point is, there was a time when engines were virtually standard and riders only brought one machine to a meeting with a track spare available which was also standard. Well, that was the theory anyway. But then of course every rider altered a thing or two such as valve port sizes, bores etc and thus it was no longer standard.

 

They toyed around with the idea of the Honda not so very long ago with sealed engines so tampering couldnt happen. The type of standardisation you speak of would leave virtually no scope for adjustment for the individual rider. You can put limits on on an engines performance - you can never standardise it to the extent they are all exactly the same.

[Vince 9,454]

I think that from a riders point of view standardisation would be OK, it would still allow for timing, jetting, compression and cam changes which is all they would ever have to do. The problem woud be to police it, you couldn't logically seal engines because they would still need rebuilding from time to time and to check that an engine was standard would require a complete strip down. There is also the problem that 2 apparently identical engines can perform very differently and if they had to remain as built and you happened to buy the lemon you would be stuck with it. The 2 year time scale might also cause problems as there are a great many riders running around on engines that are 5 or 6 years old. The age isn't usually a problem as you keep replacing the internals anyway.

It's a great idea but I doubt that it could ever be enforced.

[Trees 2,814]

Absolutely, I forgot humour was frowned upon !!

No winked at actually

There is also the problem that 2 apparently identical engines can perform very differently

How do they work it in production bike racing?

Edited April 17, 2005 by Trees

[AndyM 1]

Offer riders in a race four identical bikes and let them choose one at random. Then it's pot luck which performs better or worse!

[cpbyles 0]

No winked at actually 

 

How do they work it in production bike racing?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Point Taken

 

I can't see how Speedway can be compared to F1 or Production bike racing in whatever format simply because Speedway is the only form of Team event running on a League basis. Seven riders per team, 10 or whatever teams per league etc etc. Adds up to an awful amount of machines racing week in and week out in this country alone.

 

Any form of Standardisation would need to be Global and that in itself is an unrealistic proposition. And if we were to go down the road of using a pool of machines every meeting, who would meet the cost of buying, replacing and repairing these machines ? - the clubs themselves ? - I think not. Someone also mentioned the policing of such machines - more personel required, sounds to me like this is getting a more expensive idea than what we currently have.

 

On a final note, we have been looking at costs, but are we maybe looking in the wrong direction ? Taking into account inflation, by my reckoning a standard speedway machine of today is no more expensive than a JAP cost in the sixties, on the contary infact. The reason I mentioned black leathers in a previous post was to highlight the fact that sponsorship as we know it now was virtually non existent and the riders pay incredibly less, again taking inflation into account.

 

No matter what job you do, the pay is always deemed insufficient and unevenly

distributed - think I'll leave it at that !!

[Kevin Meynell 2]

There may be a case for standardising engines and components to reduce power, but a single manufacturer would do little to reduce costs. You'd just end-up in a monopoly situation as other manufacturers would drop-out of the market, and you'd be at the mercy of one supplier.

 

In addition, standardised sealed engines are not as 'equal' as some people seem to think. I race in a kart class which uses sealed engines that can only be maintained by approved dealers. Are they all the same? Are they hell! Furthermore, there are always whispers that certain dealers will make non-standard modifications for certain drivers who are in with them. It's certainly the case that some drivers seem to blow-up a high number of engines.

[Sir Jasper 192]

I dont neccessarily agree with the standardisation of engines in the top flights. A way to reduce costs for newer riders is to design a league with standardised equipment ie get a cheap engine deal for all conference riders , much like the formulas on the way up to f1, this then ensures all equipment is the same etc etc like formula 3 or formula BMW.

[Vince 9,454]

How do they work it in production bike racing?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The mid pack guys run standard motors and the front guys have their engines blueprinted which leaves them as standard in theory but actually uses a large selection of parts and some machining to make the tolerances perfect. Blueprinting can be just as expensive (maybe more so) as what we would call tuning. I have seen 2 identically built car race engines run on a dyno on the same day and with the same carbs etc and one has produced nearly 5% less power than the other. Even Moto GP riders who have 2 supposedly identical bikes that have cost a fortune to put together inevitably find one to be better than the other.

[pablo133 49]

when i raced karts there was a class called britain for the standard engines and a class for the modified engines which was mega bucks this should be done in speedway especially for the lower leagues like premier and conference, random checks on engines and big fines would stop any cheating and think of the cost saving for the riders, even using worn tyres etc as long as everyone had the same rules to work from there would be no advantage

[AndyM 1]

There may be a case for standardising engines and components to reduce power, but a single manufacturer would do little to reduce costs. You'd just end-up in a monopoly situation as other manufacturers would drop-out of the market, and you'd be at the mercy of one supplier.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not if it was done as a competitive tender with a 12-month contract. If done professionally, it could save the speedway industry and absolute fortune. The alternative is for a much stricter machine specification to be issued to all (both) manufacturers and allow riders to select which label was on the box, but without the bulk purchasing element it could not achieve the same cost savings.

 

Whether or not this is desirable is a different question! I think it would be.