Costs Of Speedway A Joke

[Kevin Meynell 2]

Not if it was done as a competitive tender with a 12-month contract.

 

You cannot apply management consultancy principles to everything. There are what, a total of two engine manufacturers in speedway these days? Is one really going to bother to stay in the market if the other wins an exclusive deal? Didn't Dunlop decide the speedway market was no longer worth bothering about when Barum got the exclusive deal for tyres a few years ago.

 

without the bulk purchasing element it could not achieve the same cost savings.

 

The speedway market is too small to get much in the way of bulk purchasing savings. It might be possible to draw-up a standard specification and then allow any manufacturer to build to that, but I can't see how making life difficult for the few remaining suppliers is going to solve anything.

[Vince 9,454]

Been giving this some thought and what might be possible is to police all the ancilaries rather than the engines. If riders (in the CL) had to run standard Jawa frames, forks, clutches and carbs that could represent a substantial saving over some of the aftermarket equipment. It would be easy to see at a glance if a rider was running a different clutch or expensive plates, Jawa frames are considerably cheaper than others although many riders would complain that they don't like them. I would also guess that Antig, NuTrack, Stuha and JHR might not be best pleased with the idea. Then if there was a good supply of the standard Jawa flat slide carb (or maybe the dellorto round slide) there would not be very much point in spending a fortune on tuning engines. It would also mean that a rider could go and buy a competitive bike out of the crate for just over a couple of grand. It has to be said though that a new bike would probably be competitive anyway but riders wouldn't be happy with it.

Such a bike could represent a saving of several grand over a bike with all the extras and an engine from a well known tuner.

[pudding 0]

would six lap races alter the way engines are built ????? wouldnt they have to be more reliable i.e less tuned ??? which cuts costs , .

[Guest Jim Blanchard]

Interesting topic folks. Observations here rather than opinions.

 

In 'Superstocks' or any production based motorcycle racing, modifications are usually restricted to allow changes to only certain areas of the bikes whether it’s a private machine or a factory bike. Its passively policed I think, but if anyone protests or you seem to have an unfair advantage in anyway, a bike can be examined, engine stripped if need be and penalties incurred for breaking said rules.

 

There is a single make series going on at British Championship road racing events at present called the Yamaha Virgin R6 cup. All riders entered only qualify on age and experience criteria. They pay £18,000 a year to compete in the series (can bring in personal sponsors to cover part or all if it, as all rounds are televised this seems attainable) No more fees just turn up and race. The bikes are all the same with a lucky dip selection process for each round. At the end of the series they get to keep a bike. The overall winner is given a contract by Virgin Yamaha to ride in the next seasons British Superbikes races. The series is popular, exciting and brings on young riders.

 

Could not this be arranged along these lines for a speedway series? TV coverage would be required (not necessary live) and arranged. Then corporate sponsorship pursued to help run the series perhaps along the lines of the under 15/21 year old championships. Bog standard Jawa’s purchased hopefully at special prices for quantity and perhaps Jawa involvement too. All entrants to pay a set fee to be in the series and as per the R6 cup, personal sponsors aquired to assist with the one off entry fee. All bikes the same and supplied for the meeting on a lucky dip basis. The series champion to be given a team place in a conference or premier team the following season. Maybe pie in the sky, no doubt but I think if there is the will there could be a way. Does it have any viable credence or merit?

 

I think most MotoGp bike engines are rarely worked on at the track. Usually the top factories will not allow anything other than engine mapping changes, telemetry, at the circuit. Plus of course, suspension, tyres, chassis changes. Problem with an engine? Get another one out of the crate. They are so ‘bullet’ proof and reliable these days it is very rarely an occurrence.

 

Vince, how are speedway engines policed in terms of eligibility? Does the 'big motor' bogey ever come up now and if so are there the means to check at the tracks?

Edited April 21, 2005 by Jim Blanchard

[AndyM 1]

The speedway market is too small to get much in the way of bulk purchasing savings. It might be possible to draw-up a standard specification and then allow any manufacturer to build to that, but I can't see how making life difficult for the few remaining suppliers is going to solve anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How many engines are purchased over the course of a season? Even if the riders of one club got together and placed a single order with, say, Jawa, they should be able to negotiate a discount. The manufacturers have had things their own way for far too long.

 

PS. I am a management consultant, so you couldn't expect me to think any other way. However, don't tell me that speedway is special and unique and that the rules applied to other businesses are irrelevant - cost savings can be achieved everywhere!

Edited April 21, 2005 by AndyM

[badge wearer 0]

its not just there it ends having recently read that riders still only get 10p a mile travel and HAVE to pay £4.50 per race insurance let alone engine bills etc,some one on here must know that there must be a very rich middle man earning money out of the insurance just do a quick calculation of what the total figure is for british speedway for 1 week is regarding insurance -a lot of money

[Vince 9,454]

Jim, from what I have seen there are fairly often checks on carbs but as far as I know there has to be a protest in order for the engine to be checked. They are then sealed prior to being checked but I don't know what happens from there (Sam has never gone fast enough to be accused of running an oversize engine ) I suspect that at most tracks the riders have more than enough power and wouldn't need to resort to oversize engines. I do know a very well known Grass Track rider from the 70's who bought an engine off another well known rider and after winning a top meeting commented that the engine he had bought was a flyer to the ex owner who replied that "all those 580's do" I suspect that they have always been more of a myth than fact in Speedway though as the risk of being caught would be pretty great.

The R6 cup is a great idea (KTM do a similar thing is Supermoto) in many ways but I do wonder if it stifles talent by only being available to those who can make that sort of investment in one hit. I would think that more people could afford to race with the costs split over the course of a season.

Andy M, the last I heard there was a shortage of both GM's and the latest Jawa engines so I don't think there is much chance of getting a substantial discount. There is also the problem that riders tend to buy bikes in bits as many want a GM engine or NEB clutch or Antig frame and so on. Or finances might restrict them to buying an engine now and a new chassis in a few months time. The market is pretty small and secondhand equipment is readily available at very reasonable prices. The problem in the CL is that some are on standard equipment while others are spending several thousand pounds on tuned motors. There are riders in the CL who have 2 or 3 engines each one of which cost more than both of Sam's complete bikes together. Having said that if the rider has the potential to ride that sort of equipment to it's potential he's not going to be in the CL for long, if he is getting beaten by riders on lesser equipment he is the one spending money needlessly. However it is only human nature for riders to think that they are only being beaten because of better equipment and perhaps spend money they can't afford trying to level the playing field. I still think that a 3 grand engine is probably pretty worthless with a £100 carb sat on it.

[Guest Jim Blanchard]

The R6 cup is a great idea (KTM do a similar thing is Supermoto) in many ways but I do wonder if it stifles talent by only being available to those who can make that sort of investment in one hit. I would think that more people could afford to race with the costs split over the course of a season.

 

I don't think it would 'stifle' talent Vince, it would by its nature be 'selective' of course and as in road racing there are many that would not be able to afford the 'one hit' fee and go down the normal route of club racing of paying and developing as they go. By its nature it would be regarded as an elitist group but such is life, as there are privileged groups anyway in all walks. As we know to well! I think it has merit anyway.

Edited April 25, 2005 by Jim Blanchard

[AndyM 1]

Andy M, the last I heard there was a shortage of both GM's and the latest Jawa engines so I don't think there is much chance of getting a substantial discount. There is also the problem that riders tend to buy bikes in bits as many want a GM engine or NEB clutch or Antig frame and so on. Or finances might restrict them to buying an engine now and a new chassis in a few months time. The market is pretty small and secondhand equipment is readily available at very reasonable prices. The problem in the CL is that some are on standard equipment while others are spending several thousand pounds on tuned motors. There are riders in the CL who have 2 or 3 engines each one of which cost more than both of Sam's complete bikes together. Having said that if the rider has the potential to ride that sort of equipment to it's potential he's not going to be in the CL for long, if he is getting beaten by riders on lesser equipment he is the one spending money needlessly. However it is only human nature for riders to think that they are only being beaten because of better equipment and perhaps spend money they can't afford trying to level the playing field. I still think that a 3 grand engine is probably pretty worthless with a £100 carb sat on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good answer, though I still believe this is all the more reason for buying habits to be standardised to enable prices to be reduced. Bear in mind that selling by component actually makes the manufacturer more money than selling whole machines.

 

And the more specialised those components, the higher the margin over equivalent components on road bikes. Can we use generic components to reduce costs?

[Kevin Meynell 2]

some one on here must know that there must be a very rich middle man earning money out of the insurance just do a quick calculation of what the total figure is for british speedway for 1 week is regarding insurance -a lot of money

 

Look at the insurance risks involved in speedway though.

[AndyM 1]

Yes, Kevin. On another thread there was a discussion about how most speedway riders are at least underinsured (income protection, health etc.) because the premiums would be unaffordable, which leaves them exposed in the event of injury.

 

Is the Speedway Riders Benevolent Fund still in existence? If so, surely it can only provide limited assistance.

[badge wearer 0]

yes but a rider pays £4.50 a race then in return will get £150 per week after something like 2-3 weeks off that too me is unfari on a rider.i think the speedway riders ben.fund is still going with approx.£800,000 in it but no one knows who exactly holds the strings to it....

[neil_L 3]

some of this discussion is relevant to the laydowns discussion.

 

What no-one has paid attention to is that speedway riders come in different shapes and sizes. Standard low power engines will mean the lighter guy wins every time as they can pull a tall gear. The racing would be extreamly dull.

 

I would argue the only way standard engines would work would be to go to bigger more torque engines. Thus riders of all shapes / styles can use the right amout of throttle to give them drive. Bigger cc engines would need less revs to pull and thus the engines should last longer and still give those riders with skill to ride the dirt plenty of drive.

 

In conclusion though standardisation appears good it just wouldn't work. As I've said many many times I believe modern speedway is still exciting. Better track prep is a higher priority.

[Kevin Meynell 2]

yes but a rider pays £4.50 a race then in return will get £150 per week after something like 2-3 weeks off that too me is unfari on a rider.

 

It seems a lot (and probably is for Conference rider), but look at the high chance of moderate to serious injury to oneself, plus the ever present threat of public liability. Quite honestly, I'm amazed that any insurance company would even touch speedway, let alone do it for under GBP 20 per meeting.

 

I expect speedway insurance is not an 'off-the-shelf' product so needs a specialist company or specific arrangements to be made. Unfortunately, with such a small market, that is never going to come cheap.

[Guest Isaac Hunt]

600cc engines the answer ?