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pablo133

Costs Of Speedway A Joke

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600cc engines the answer ?

why ???? it would be just the same , tuned to the max & still costing £'ssss , six lap races is worth looking at , rider's would need a more durable motor , the insurance will be the same , supporters see more action and it wouldnt cost anything to implement , am i the only one who think it could work

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Exactly. Detuning is good, extra capacity is throwing petrol on the bonfire!

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I think 6 lap races would just lead to the same engines being rebuilt more often and therefore becoming more expensive.

Can't see any benefit in bigger engines as I think they would just be adding more speed to the equation.

I still think that if you are going to introduce any sort of restriction it has to be simple and easy to police. Restricting manifold sizes or similar will never work as people will just spend a fortune trying to get the same power as before the restriction. One obvious thing that nobody has mentioned is adding weight to the bikes, I don't believe it would be practical as by the time you added enough to make a real difference the bikes might become difficult to ride. It is another option though.

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vince my idea of 6 lap races would also add weight to the bikes due to more fuel being needed , we all know you will never stop development of race machines so it needs a different approach thats easy & cheap to imlement , and MY idea would give speedway more value for your money ,

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I've just watched Briggo's Golden Greats from 1989 in Landshut, Germany. Penhall, Collins, Betts, Fundin, Knutsson, Wassermann, etc etc.

10,000 fans 2 Valve Jawas and a well pepared track with dirt. This was obviously just for fun, however still great speedway.

 

In my Grand Plan thread I suggest lower hp for engines and smaller tracks for the lower leagues.

 

Jawa make a 2 Valve still and it can be bought in an upright configuration.

Jawa

2 valve formula ford type racing for the CL with smaller tracks allowed giving a greater chance to build one.

Small is beautiful

Would Carmarthen Dragons still be going if they went for a smaller track? I wonder.

 

I would like to see good modern riders on 2 Valves, http://www.ollenygren.com/ has some.

Good old fashioned challenge match. Can't be that hard to organize, maybe the upper echelon wouldn't compete, I bet you could get Screen, Stoney, Wilson etc to have a go. Proper meeting, good prize money and upright 2 valves on a track with DIRT!!

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That was December 2003, Malcolm. Don't suppose the BSPA, Benfield or the equipment manufacturers have been beating a path to your door in the meantime, probably because there are too many vested interests to sort out what needs to be done.

 

Yours is an eloquent vision which doesn't uninvent the past 30 years. Where are the visionaries with authority to make it happen? :unsure:

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Guest cheetahhawk
Is the Speedway Riders Benevolent Fund still in existence? If so, surely it can only provide limited assistance.

 

Yes AndyM, the Speedway Riders Benevolent Fund is still in existence. The treasurer is Bernard Crapper and I am just one of his helpers that do the collections. Every track has a collection once a year and we also do collections at big meetings such as the EL pairs, PL pairs, British Final,PL and EL riders finals.

There is a thread at the top of the page on Speedway General Discussions, all about the Ben, Fund.

Edited by cheetahhawk

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That was December 2003, Malcolm.  Don't suppose the BSPA, Benfield or the equipment manufacturers have been beating a path to your door in the meantime,

 

I'm still waiting for a call. Maybe I was out and missed it.

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I posted a suggestion about standard engines nearly 2 years ago. I cannot see why it wouldnt work. Do we really think that highly tuned 4-valvers add anything but cost to speedway ?

I dont think there is much rocket science involved in a making a virtually unbreakable standard engine that is simple to produce. Work out the numbers of riders in the leagues produce say 3 engines per rider. Divide the cost of the engines plus a factor to allow for overhauls after a given number of meetings. Divide this cost by the numbers of riders registered, and that is the cost for each rider to register. The engines are held by the tracks and each rider draws a number. That is their engine for the meeting. Carbs and settings are sealed, no tinkering allowed. The only adjustment allowed is by way of chainwheels and sprockets to suit the rider. Obviously each rider will have his own frames since these are custom built . It might even be cheaper to throw an engine away if it should blow up !

I expect an awful lot of flak after this posting :lol:

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  I expect an awful lot of flak after this posting :lol:

 

Good, you absolutely deserve it !!

 

Tracks holding the engines ? - drawing numbers ?, this has been branded around before and is a totally ludicrous idea !! Supposing the home team was totally honest and the selection of engines was totally random (fat chance) it is unfair that a riders pay night depends purely on how lady luck deals him an engine.

We already know that two so called identical engines are NOT going to be identical

let alone 14 of them - I can just imagine Beckham or Rooney having to draw numbers to see what boots their playing in - regardless of size !! B)

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Hardly a comparison to football boots, is it? Not saying the idea is practical in the current climate, but it's an excellent solution to allow rider skill to be paramount above equipment differences. We need imaginative thinking and to consider a full spectrum of blue skies thinking if we're going to get a decent perspective.

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I don't think things like low power engines or a set up for the CL that can't be easily changed for the PL are going to ever work because if a rider is to progress he will at sometime need to ride in both divisions if he is to progress. You would then have the situation where he would have to spend more money than ever because he would need seperate bikes for each division. Personally I hate the idea of smaller tracks, they are already getting smaller than they used to be and Speedway without the speed is only half the spectacle (just how much smaller could Carmarthen have been?). I know they do it in the States but that is hardly a hotbed of Speedway action.

The idea that a set up like the ones used in Road racing or Supermoto one make series could be transferred to Speedway is also unlikely in my view. The difficulty is that unlike the R6 cup or similar the bikes (engines) would have to be in several different places with different mechanics working on them, they are also used a lot more often. I still think that the only limit that could be easily policed is to restrict the ancillary parts to less expensive items. These parts can easily be seen at anytime throughout the meeting and would lessen the (perceived) need for expensive engine tuning.

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I don't think things like low power engines or a set up for the CL that can't be easily changed for the PL are going to ever work because if a rider is to progress he will at sometime need to ride in both divisions if he is to progress. You would then have the situation where he would have to spend more money than ever because he would need seperate bikes for each division.

There could be simple reversible changes to save money for CL. I.e. An NGK spark plug for your petrol motorcycle is around 3 quid, an NGK for a speedway bike is 40 to 50 quid depending on who sells it. You can use stock Jawa ignition or spend 400-500 quid on a magic box.

Oil for a speedway bike costs a fortune, fancy clutch plates, using an edge on a tyre, turning it around using the new edge and then tossing it costs money.

Lower the compression, run them on petrol and regular motor oil (potential new sponsors there), no fancy mechanical extras. If a rider has money them let them spend it on making the bike look good and promotion for themselves. Buy a decent van so they can get to the track.

 

 

 

 

Personally I hate the idea of smaller tracks, they are already getting smaller than they used to be and Speedway without the speed is only half the spectacle (just how much smaller could Carmarthen have been?). I know they do it in the States but that is hardly a hotbed of Speedway action.

 

You know Britain is not a big place and so small tracks if they fit an area in a low impact fashion should be considered. As for the States other factors prevent lots of tracks being built, another discussion if anyone cares. The riders from the tracks that are there Penhall, Hamill, Hancock, Morans, Miller, Janniro etc are more than enough proof for the worth of small tracks.

You should try and get ahold of some Ascot videos. Phil Collins, Mike Faria, Billy Hamill 3 wide in the turns lap after lap swopping positions, awesome stuff.

A nice wide small track with a little banking.

Edited by Malcolm

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That is exactly the point I am trying to make about making the ancillaries (clutch, ignition, carburrettor) standard items, they are easy to see and police. As I think I posted earlier there is little point in spending a fortune on tuning if you are going to put a crap carb on. I don't think you should convert to petrol because you would again be moving too far away from a bike that could also compete in the PL. You already have to use a tyre for a whole meeting in league racing and most of the oil companies have a mineral based oil so there wouldn't be much of an extra market for sponsors.

You could equally say that Mauger, Briggs, Moore, Fundin, Loram, Rickardsson etc etc are proof that a big track is better. I have seen some of the videos from the States and the racing is close but the speeds so low that it doesn't interest me in the slightest, it is almost another sport in the way that the indoor or ice meetings are over here. Carmarthen and Weymouth are about as small as I would ever be interested in watching Speedway at, I really can't see that the size of the track is going to get over the problems that stop new tracks i.e. noise and traffic. The only benefit I can see of small tracks is that you could probably find indoor sites where you could hold the odd meeting.

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I don't think you should convert to petrol because you would again be moving too far away from a bike that could also compete in the PL.

This 898 powered ft bike http://missoula.bigsky.net/newton/a10a.jpg

runs on both fuels depending on what a promoter will allow, just carb re-jetting needed to swop between petrol and methanol. The engine would be easily converted to PL spec. Weslake once offered a petrol conversion for their engine. I think they said it would take an hour to do and in tests the petrol bike was actually faster off the line.

 

I have seen some of the videos from the States and the racing is close but the speeds so low that it doesn't interest me in the slightest,

Have you seen Ascot? At Costa Mesa Josh Larsen was clocked across the start/finish line at 62mph. Speeds look very different on video with the camera following the action.

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