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super_carlos

who should go up and why

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Personally I think the EL is a far better product than the Premier. Of course less clubs is the main problem but on the whole it would be a bitter pill to swallow if we didn't get to see several top GP riders a week.

 

The argument of the premier being a better product just doesn't hold up.

Whilst meeting can still be close and exciting, the premier fans miss out big time on seeing the top guys in action at their track. these guys are worth the admission alone, and to see Rickardsson, Crump, Sullivan and Loram at your track can only be great for the sport.

 

The main argument seems to be that premier league has more teams so more variation every week. A good point but does Sheffield V Somerset have the same appeal as Sheffield V Poole, with, just say for example, Trcick, Adams and Dryml Vs Wilson, Screen and Gollob. (just using Screen and Gollob as two possible signings for Sheffield)

 

I cannot believe Sheffield fans would prefer premier over elite league if it wss presented to them properly. Surely the Sheffield promotion and fans want their team to be the best in the country? That will never happen if they just sit where they are.

 

The elite league will prevail in some form or another. It has to for the premier and conference leagues to survive. Without the elite GB will never, ever have another world champion. GB will end up in speedways backwater(although it's heading slowly but surely that way as I type this)

 

Four clubs are needed to move up to strengthen the elite and make the sport a more sturdy ship to steer. With the likelyhood of further conference league teams applyng tomove into the premier, the premier itself will become unviable with too many teams and the problems of fitting too many meetings into the season.

 

Si I say to all premier league fans, the elite is not some horrible place, but a place for the best racing in the world with the best riders. And something I enjoy and wouldn't want to swap any day of the week.

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Steve from one who has been there, done that and got the ruddy t-shirt, I'll take the PL any day :approve:

I agree that the EL has to exist to fuel BSIs demand for GP riders etc but just because you can see no further than Trick, Crumpy, Pedersen et al do not tell us what we should want.

IMO the PL is a far superior product, riders who actually want to ride in a league for its own sake and not as a glorified training league for the GPs, variety as you say, fixtures that are not messed about with just to suit the TV schedules and probably most of all far friendlier fans.

Sorry to bite, I've resisted for a long, long while but having probably as much experience of EL as yourself and a helluva lot more of PL than you, I just had to say it :)

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Si I say to all premier league fans, the elite is not some horrible place, but a place for the best racing in the world with the best riders. And something I enjoy and wouldn't want to swap any day of the week.

 

Agree with most of what you say, having seen EL and PL at swindon. But economic reality will prevent most teams moving up. If cost at EL level are not reduced then any PL team moving up will need a very big subsidy maybe as much as 100K a year to cover the loses and cost of employing GP riders.

 

The main trouble is that speedway has been largely displaced from the big cities where EL speedway would be viable.. no teams in london, birmingham (not wolves), bradford for example. So speedway is in the regions and in many cases out in the sticks, so wont pull many more fans by moving up. Thats the biggest trouble the EL faces, how do u get punters to pay 2 or 3 quid more?

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I cannot believe Sheffield fans would prefer premier over elite league if it wss presented to them properly. Surely the Sheffield promotion and fans want their team to be the best in the country? That will never happen if they just sit where they are.

 

But dosen't the PL make more proffit? Why would a promoter want to move up?

 

At the end of the day it does not matter how good or bad the EL or PL or CL are, they all have faults.

 

I agree with CVS with the 3 tier structure and the EL needing 12 Teams.

 

I thought that the main problem is because of the huge difference in costs between the two leagues.

 

Neil Machin was taken on to the BSPA committee this year and was tasked to look at the costs. (Forgot what the actual wording was.)

 

Question is are the top EL riders willing to take a pay cut? And could this be enforced legally anyway?

 

What other ideas have people got to sort the costs out.

 

I am not in favour of handouts to get PL teams to move up as is does not solve the problem.

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No disrepect to your favourite Wasp riders but if Newport found themselves in the elite league, you certainly would be impressed if Gollob, Screen or Loram rode for you. Just because they have names? Yes of course, how do you think they got so famous? Because they are EXCELLENT and EXCITING riders. Watto et all coould still ride as reserves and second strings, and you would see racing beyond your imagination!

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Guest border bandit

trick gollob crump adams exciteing yea . if there all in the same race .but put 1 in a race against even some of the better premier league riders and there 10 bike lengths in front. whats exciteing about that

i would rather watch the pl as it is LEAVE IT ALONE

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would the top men travel up to west cumbria to ride for worky every week? doubt it seeing as most are southern based.

 

They ride in Sweden, Poland etc every week, so I can't see Cumbria being too much of a problem.

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It doesn't have a mainstream airport tho Kevin!

 

Rumour had it on the terracings in Glasgow last weekend that one of the main problems Glasgow had when they tried to sign Hansen was the travelling. Aparently its a lot easier for him to fulfil his foreign engagements from Hull (presumably by overnight ferry?).

 

:roll:

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I take your point Lioness - but how many mainstream airports are there in Poland?

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Err....... :oops:

 

Havent a Scooby! I was never any good at Geography as Blondes on Tour to Newcastle proved :P

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I think SCB has summed it all up brilliantly for me.Thats exactly how i feel about EL or PL. Steve i have seen Elite League meetings around the country both live and on sky and some meetings were pretty good but there is no way that it is this wonderful product that you profess,with what did you say,races you can only imagine.Come off it.The main thing i can't understand about your point is you make it sound like we have to watch the GP stars to see great and exciting racing or super skill.We see some unbelievable races at times at Owlerton at Premier level,races that make the hairs stand on the back of your neck,then i think back to when we've had EL guys down.The Elite League Riders Final and World Team Cup and frankly most races were quite boring,with riders strung out on rocket ship bikes 30 yards apart.I wouldn't cross the road to watch that.There are plenty of exciting riders and riders with raw talent too to watch at Premier Level.I love my speedway on a thursday night,and i can't wait till the next meeting every week but i can honestly say with hand on heart if Sheffield were to move up as the Elite League is now i'd be gutted.Where else could you see someone like Carlos Villar too,i can't wait till he comes back :shock::)

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I really can not see Sheffield moving up.

 

I could only really see Andre Compton and Andy Moore in the EL team.

 

Think Sean would prefer to stay in the PL and the rest of the team would not be good enough apart from possibly Ricky at reserve.

 

Any thoughts?

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Phillip, you said about all EL racing being spread out, well it's not all like that. I know most of it but we do get good close racing with lots of passing. Even I don't like meetings where it is all strung out. Take when Poole came to Coventry last, for example, I thought that was a pretty boring meeting racing wise.. most of the times were below 60 seconds and people were just gating and zooming off into the distance. I didn't enjoy that and would much prefer to see close racing with lots of overtaking. When you have meetings like that, what chance have the lesser riders got, when their machines are nowhere near as fast as the top guys. Speedway, in my opinion, is about skill, and overtaking people, not how fast you can go.

Personally, I would love to see Sheffield come into the EL, but that's just because I've heard lots of good things about your track, and the amount of passing and good racing you get, I want you in the EL so I can visit your track! When you are in the PL, I have no reason too so mum won't take me! :evil:

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Guest

Sadly - depite requests from Phil in the 'posting guidelines' bit - this seems to have degenerated into 'my leagues better than your league' type arguements!!!

 

This is just the problem IMHO! The promoters must get into similar discussions at the comference every year, which is why we never seem to move forward!!! :P

 

I go to most Wolves matches - home and away - plus my fair share of PL matches throughout any given season and CL matches when I can afford it - and can honestly say I enjoy ALL levels of the sport. Yes the Elite League has the top stars - but this is not always a guarantee of good racing - and I probably enjoy it slightly more because the matches I see involve MY team. However, I can see the merits of the premier league - most notably the variety of different opposition and the often closer racing than in the elite. The conference league is a good idea for helping the young guys to progress but I do worry that there seems to be too amny 'old hands' just using the league for a bit of a hobby - but that's just my view!!!

 

There IS a big issue about self interest within ALL the leagues - probably with reason in some cases - but we have to see the thing globaly or we're no better than the powers that be who we spend a lot of time critisising!!!

 

IMHO the whole thing needs a big shake up! We need to stick with the three leagues but they need to be more evenly distributed. If this means rider control and my team losing some of the 'big guns' then so be it! No rider is bigger than the club and whoever rides for Wolves will get my support (although I might draw the line at Billy Hamill! :twisted: :P ). I think it's perfectly feasible to weaken the EL teams by restricting them to only one 8.5+ rider and a lower points limit (40 or 42 points perhaps) - also possibly keep the 'doubling-up' thing but to restrict it back to British riders under 21 (or 25 for those who have less than 3 years experience - to prevent discrimation against late starters). And most importantly, no cow-towing to the one or two descenters you're sure to get (my money's on Matt Ford and Colin Pratt!) - they can't run a league on their own so if a majority want it then tough luck!!! :approve: :twisted:

 

Finally (sorry for the long post folks!), going back to the original thread, I think the teams that should join the EL - based on fan support and the ability to make it pay - should be Swindon, Workington, Sheffield, and one of Newcastle, Arena and Kings Lynn. If Ipswich are still determined to go PL then it should five out of those six to join the seven other EL tracks. Of course there will be issues for Workington who will lose out on lucritive 'local' matches (hopefully offset a bit if Newcastle come up too) but there is also the advantage of having lots of 'new' tracks for them to visit. Also I sure many EL fans would make the journey to Cumbria as it makes such a nice change from yet another visit to Belle Vue or Coventry!!! :approve: :roll: I know I would!!! :)

 

The bottom line is that we can't stick our heads in the sand and pretend everything in our own garden is rosy - speddway needs ALL the leagues and it's very short sighted to keep saying 'I'm alright Jack'. All the promoters should try to put aside their own self-interest and look at what's best for the sport as a whole - that way we might actually get the sport back to where it truly belongs!!! :!: :!: :!:

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