speedway. the future.

[Tony 0]

Hopefully the EL would be too big to be run on the present basis leaving some dates for the return of the prestigious individual meetings such as the Olymique, Brandonapolis and even the Internationale. After all, the GP riders will have some time on their hands, only riding for one club. Now would Channel 4 or 5 be interested in those?

 

I agree with much of your post above and the related thread but I'm not sure there's much appetite for the individual meetings.

 

I always used to enjoy them, but along with many people do so in moderation, team speedway is my first love. But we now have to consider the format of the GPs, the likelihood of increasing numbers of events and the various national championships and qualifying events.

 

I'm inclined to think the support for many more individual meetings is very limited and the attendances would reflect that.

[SammyR 0]

Very much like the Elite League, a few clubs in the top division in Sweden and Poland are finding it difficult to survive employing G.P. riders.

I think all three countries would be better served by excluding these riders from their leagues, by doing so reducing costs and minimising disruption.

I propose a European League consisting of two teams from Britain, Sweden, Poland, and one from each of Denmark and Czecho.

Like the current EL, each team could have 14 home and 14 away league matches, with one or two extra competitions thrown in, if need be.

Each team would use three GP riders each (let's put in the likes of Peter Karlsson to balance numbers), and the balance of the teams would be doubling-up riders, such as Howe, Stead, Harris, Screen, Barker, etc. in Britain.

For the riders in the domestic leagues, it gives them extra bookings and a chance to compete still with the worlds' best. And it makes most clubs commercially viable, preserving the number of teams in the top division.

The standard of racing would still be more than adequate.

G.P. riders could still get extra meetings by visiting the tracks in the domestic leagues for the likes of the Olympique, etc., as suggested, the WTC, and national championships. I'm sure GP riders would prefer to reduce their workload if it didn't reduce their earning capacity too much.

I'm sure the likes of Sky would fall over themselves to broadcast this league, so that sponsorship would pour in and costs could be covered.

I suppose, in Britain, our two teams would have to be Poole and Coventry or Eastbourne. I'm convinced they would pull in excellent crowds for their fixtures. Alright, no local derbies, but wouldn't we all make the effort to attend one or two European League matches to boost attendances.

Imagine our first league with enough teams for a varied and meaningful fixture list, no disruption through rider absences, and costs which were affordable to secure the future of all tracks. The same would be true for Sweden, Poland, Denmark, etc.

It could even provide an incentive for Germany, Russia, Italy et al. to try to attain Euro League status, spreading the speedway gospel, and increasing the sports' popularity here and abroad.

Sam.

[Mylor 0]

Very much like the Elite League, a few clubs in the top division in Sweden and Poland are finding it difficult to survive employing G.P. riders.

I think all three countries would be better served by excluding these riders from their leagues, by doing so reducing costs and minimising disruption.

I propose a European League consisting of two teams from Britain, Sweden, Poland, and one from each of Denmark and Czecho.  

Like the current EL, each team could have 14 home and 14 away league matches, with one or two extra competitions thrown in, if need be.

Each team would use three GP riders each (let's put in the likes of Peter Karlsson to balance numbers), and the balance of the teams would be doubling-up riders, such as Howe, Stead, Harris, Screen, Barker, etc. in Britain.

 

Sorry about the extended quote guys.

 

I thought about this a while ago but dismissed it on the grounds that the admission fee for, in this case 14 matches would be prohibitive. I'd expect, and probably so would the fans, an increase for the few ECC matches I proposed in my earlier posts. I think it's unlikely that promoters would use the TV and sponsorship money to subsidise admission fees.

 

Strikes me though that we're not far off having a workable solution. It would be good to have the opinions of a few promoters though wouldn't it?

[sandman 0]

I would like to see the promoters take a poll of all speedway supporters and find our likes dislikes etc and take the data and make some changes. If it means better concessions such as food price etc, more dirt on the tracks, better access to the riders, whatever it would take. I do think the riders need to be personalised a bit better, and I think for any tv coverage it is imperative to run a short film on a couple of selected riders at their home, a couple of minutes each etc. As it stands now, outside of a select few all the riders tend to blend together, it isnt as it was in the day when you had Booey and Ronnie Moore who truly appealed to the working class for example. I believe speedway is trying to move past that image, but we arent all rich or famous and it helps to have some on the track that we can relate to. Football is something that people can relate to because it is something we can see ourselves doing, we can relate to some of the players. I know nascar has done a great job of marketing the sport and drivers because these men although very rich, relate to the fans and seem normal people. And from what I hear, there arent the stories of drugs and wife beating etc that you hear of in other sports. Marketing of the riders, track preparation, promotion admission prices for supporters, are ultimately important. Speedway is best on well prepared tracks with dirt, and I would rather have a full stadium with a percentage of discounted tickets than one with a sparce crowd, because if those people had a good time, especially first timers, they will be back. I may be way off base here and sorry if I am. I am not or have ever been a promoter, and am surely not judging them, just trying to be constructive...maybe Norbold can relate to this as he has seen the sport at its peak. :?

[Mylor 0]

I may be way off base here and sorry if I am.

 

Not at all Sandman!

Excellent stuff.........You're just saying what many of us are thinking. Keep posting. I'm sure you're not gonna receive many negative replies.

[Guest Sir Lunchalot]

My tuppence worth.

 

It's a bit of a "chicken and the egg" scenario I think. Here we are suggesting no GP riders and the costs should be a lot less, but will the spectators be willing to put up with the resulting drop in quality? After having seen the best week in and week out will they still keep turning up to see what is basically a lower standard competition? In my opinion offering the best riders on offer has a greater chance of bringing in the crowds.

 

My beef is not with the GP's as such, it's with the way that the BSI do business with using other peoples assets basically free of charge. For the top riders the prizemoney might be ok and they have lucrative sponsorship but at the lower level the "run of the mill" GP riders have to finance their GP activities out of money earned from the domestic leagues. That's what I think is forcing the costs up. While BSI are allowed to get away with it then they will, and good luck to them, the crunch will come when someone is brave enough to stand up to them. I can see the first signs of cracks appearing in the BSI machine with Hamill opting out of the GP's and the Americans not going to the SWC.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens from here.

[sandman 0]

Replying to my own post, the late Simon Wigg was one who really stood out on television due to his lime green leathers and number plate. A very talented racer who knew how to promote his indivuality. Anyone could pick him out a mile away. If I happened to be a GP rider, I would want something complete different than the standard Kevlars that look like all the others even if they were day glo orange,being an individual like Wiggy is cool.... 8)

[paulr 0]

"What do you want to go to that dump, to watch that s**t for??"

 

The above was a response from a mate when I suggested going to Armadale to watch Monarchs v Trelawny last week.

 

It kind of backs up what I had posted earlier - that the sport suffers from a lack of publicity and public awareness. As most of us on this forum know or have stated, one visit to a meeting is usually enough to get interested in the sport....the challenge is to get new blood to attend.

 

While I read all the earlier posts with interest, many seemed to be about tinkering with the setups of leagues etc which only the existing fans would know about and agree with or otherwise. Would they actually raise awareness and attendances of the sport ? Would they get a few more column inches in the sport section of the national newspapers, what chance has speedway of ever getting a mention in a sports review in the TV news..especially when real important issues like Beckham breaking a finger nail, or England drawing a test match will get preference ?

 

Is seems to me that the sport in the UK is financially suffering - teams just holding on, tracks being threatened etc etc., and as such requires an injection of cash which, unless a Russian billionaire is around the corner with his chequebook, will require either greater revenues from Sky and/or an increase in attendances.

 

I dont know how much promotion goes on locally at/for clubs ( I dont live near a track), but there isnt even a sign for the Brandon track (there is one very faded sign for Karting) and its so easy to drive past it without even knowing it there (as we did last year!!) ... at least Armadale has some yellow signs stating 'Speedway racing' from the motorway.

 

How many speedway teams/tracks are mentioned in the sports section of area guides or tourist information (Poole fans - are the Pirates covered in any tourist offices or websites for the area ??, if so good, but how many other teams are not ??))

 

Things like 'Kids for a quid' do work - but they need to know about it first. Speedway has an opportunity in the summer months when football isnt on to possibly attract more spectators but without sufficient publicity it wont happen.

 

Its unfortunate , and an economic fact, that some tracks are in a poor state, and luckily I took my kids to Brandon first to see speedway B4 we ventured out to other tracks (once the bug had bitten)....they had been to several premier and SPL stadia prior, so had a level of expectancy of what sports stadiums should offer, and while Brandon is a poor relation in comparison to say Villa Park, at least its one of the better Speedway ones !!.

 

I have a school teacher friend and Im going to ask her to ask her class about speedway - do they know what it is etc, and the responses may be interesting. Do riders visit schools, offering free tickets for the next meeting etc ??? Can you imaging the excitement and awareness it would raise if a few riders and their bikes turned up at school ??

 

Sorry for the long ramble.... Cheers Paul

[sandman 0]

Well spoken for sure....

[Midnight_Lady 2]

Do riders visit schools, offering free tickets for the next meeting etc ??? Can you imaging the excitement and awareness it would raise if a few riders and their bikes turned up at school ??

 

Edinburgh have already covered that avenue a few seasons back tho' I am not sure just how successful it has been in the long term.

 

I think Edinburgh do a fairly good job with trying to lure new blood in to the sport. They have already covered the schools thing, they often have kids clubs in for free, they attend the local gala days and have a "float" with riders and bikes on display and posters and fliers are always put out at the beginning of the season along with adverts in the paper. There is also a bring someone along for free with tickets being arranged in advance. All in all not a bad effort from the Edinburgh promotion.

[Mylor 0]

....................all of the above.

 

SCB,

Thanks for your contribution

 

If I were a top rider under the present rules I may think much the same, however, we have already ascertained that the present setup should change as there doesn’t seem to be a bottomless pit for riders to take money from. It all comes out of your pocket and my pocket whether we attend meetings, buy the merchandise or subscribe to Sky.

 

The goose that laid the golden egg for the select few is dying.

 

The discussion on the future of speedway is about much more than how we can maintain the top rider’s earnings at their present level. That’s not what the sport’s about and not what this thread’s about. It’s about viability, expansion and popularity, the sort of popularity that would ultimately bring millions of pounds (or Euros) into the sport.

 

Riders can only take what’s on offer but if it’s not on offer they, like the rest of us, learn to live within our means or find other ways to top up their income from such as sponsorship and, if the sport gains in popularity like it should, advertising and merchandising.

 

The European Club Championship?

I can’t see where you got the idea that it would be held in one country or that riders could ride in it without traveling. I’ve copied part of it below so you can read it again. I did edit it slightly to make it clearer. In another post I did make it clear that we could expect admission fees to be higher for the 3 (minimum) home ECC matches as you would expect.

 

For 2005………..All teams would ride in their national leagues. Perhaps those qualifying for the ECC would become exempt from the BLC if it’s still running. The ECC teams, say 16 or 20, would go into a draw to produce 4 mini-leagues. They would compete home and away. The top 2 go forward to the 2 leg quarterfinals, 2 leg semis, then a final held possibly on a GP track within a few days of the GP (because the corporate & merchandise infrastructure, TV etc would already be there?).

 

Qualifiers would get a full league program, including local derbies, of course, and a minimum of 6 or 8 ECC matches. TV (Sky and/or terrestrial, who may become interested at this level) would get a larger EL and 25 or 33 ECC matches. Promoters get more through the turnstiles and more TV money. Supporters get...............to breathe a sigh of relief at least but I get the feeling it will put smiles on quite a few faces.

 

For those who haven’t read the thread you’ll find it here:

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forum/view...opic.php?t=3294

 

To be fair SCB, you did make some suggestions for improvement in an earlier post. A little confusing for newcomers methinks but valid just the same. The difference between our two approaches seems to be scale. The ECC should grow the sport to such an extent that everyone who wants to should make a good living at it and give the enthusiastic ‘amateurs’ more opportunities should they wish to move up.

 

Your last paragraph ‘Would the EL fans turn up….’ Threw me a bit.

PL fans turn up to see teams without GP riders every week, often in greater numbers. Many of them argue that the racing’s better but that’s for another thread. I agree that teams relying heavily on riders who ride in more than one country would find things tough during the transition but, perhaps by extending the timeframe, that should be manageable. They may even wish to invest their savings in young British talent, start a training track or lease someone else’s for a day or two a week, and/or enter a team in the CL or CT. Yes riders would move up, even whole teams may move up. If we’re not careful we may have a viable EL.

[Mylor 0]

Thanks SCB, good reply.

 

You could be right but I see it as too big a change with quite a risk involved and it requires the backing of the Swedes and the Poles.  

 

I think short of asking our Polish & Swedish members to do a translation job for us the best we can hope for is that one of our more influential members will raise the issues with the powers that be.

 

...........and then the Poles will be left with a few mediocre Poles in there leagues all because riders have chased the money.

 

It's what happens in speedway and other sports at all levels. Poole appear to be more affluent than many others in the EL and can attract the best even though there would be fewer of them available. Some riders may chase the money, others may wish to win a few trophies. It's by no means certain that the two would go together.

 

Or the 3 leagues could try and run a European League as well as there own Elite Leagues but with different teams (a bit like the BLC, that way us PL teams won't be affected ).  That would give it time to settle, even out and for all the problems to be solved before they made it into a bigger more prestigious competition.

 

With all the goings on in the BLC I see the need for a strong international controlling body to make this viable but then we need one of those anyway. I'm not sure the fans would take to supporting 2 separate teams (even if they could put 2 together without affecting the PL) and can't see how this would fit in with the aim of reducing costs.

 

Methinks we're on the right lines though. Do you?

[Mylor 0]

SCB,

 

Speedway is a business like any other. Ultimately businesses that don't look after their customers will fail to thrive (the state the EL is in now) and eventually fail altogether.

 

In an 'us and them' culture managers won't listen. Enough customers putting forward reasonable ideas over a long enough period will influence the best of them, and only the best will survive.

 

The forum is becoming more respected in the circles that count. Managers and promoters (Coventry, Oxford and Wimbledon) are browsing the threads and beginning to post without needing to hide their identities. The more we encourage this, the better our chances of getting the best of our ideas adopted and the sport can move forward. Hopefully the best managers will post their ideas too. It may take a little while but it is within reach.

 

From this moment SCB, you are no longer scum but a valuable asset who can make a difference. Keep posting

[Guest davej92]

Ok Here goes - i may jump across topics here but i think all are relevant to the current state of the sport.

 

firstly the GPs. they are here and they will remain. the sooner we (fans and promoters) realise that the better. every rider wants to be world champion and not many riders are going to give up the chance of a gp career versus league racing.

currently gp prize money is not capable of covering the costs therefore the riders have to ride in the various leagues to cover costs. maybe it is time for someone to run a gp team on the same basis that the f1 teams run - to develop new machinery - anyone listening at honda/yamaha?? problem there is that you have the possibility of world class riders on experimental kit and not as fast as they should be. bloody hell - we may get some racing!!

 

second thing about the gps is that we know that they are going to be on a saturday night - therefore again we need to live with it. promoters who run on Saturday night tracks either need to change their night or run without gp riders. IMO british speedway should be run on ONE SINGLE night in the week in a similiar way to football with teams home one week and away the next.

i know certain tracks have problems with clashes due to other events at their stadiums. These promotions are obviously second class tenants if they cannot change their night - if so they have a problem which needs sorting - typically they do not make as much money as greyhounds for example. quid pro quo - we need to make speedway profitable for promoters and one way to do this is to get the fans back.

 

how do we get the fans back??

1. we give them their team - ie 10 riders (a squad!) who ride for them. not them and a polish team, and a swedish team and a PL team.

2. we give them speedway once every two weeks - its bloody expensive to take a family of four to meetings every week.

3. re-introduce relegation and promotion - i know there are massive differences of opinion here - but i don't see an alternative

4. introduce a european competition for the top teams in each country

5. clean the stadiums up

6. make the promoters realise that they do actually need to promote their sport - and wearing a 20 year old belle vue jacket and smoking a fag isn't exactly the image that will attract your average 20 year old male!

 

etc, etc

 

i'm rambling so i'll stop - anybody agree with me on any of this??

 

Dave

[Gemini 4,894]

.1. we give them their team - ie 10 riders (a squad!) who ride for them. not them and a polish team, and a swedish team and a PL team.

Interesting post, but a few flaws I think.

To answer the point above - where do you think we are going to find ten riders per team who would be willing to just ride in England once a fortnight and not ride for any other team abroad?

2. we give them speedway once every two weeks - its bloody expensive to take a family of four to meetings every week.

Speak for yourself! Why should we all be reduced to a meeting every two weeks because some can't afford to take all the family?

3. re-introduce relegation and promotion - i know there are massive differences of opinion here - but i don't see an alternative.

Afraid that won't work due to some tracks not wishing to be promoted for various reasons - but mostly the expense of being in a higher league.

5. clean the stadiums up.

Agree with that statement. Must say that since new owners have taken over at Brandon they are concentrating on doing just that and are doing a brilliant job.

6. make the promoters realise that they do actually need to promote their sport - and wearing a 20 year old belle vue jacket and smoking a fag isn't exactly the image that will attract your average 20 year old male!

Not thinking of anyone in particular here are you?