RobMcCaffery 2,752 Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) Get off your high horse Parsloes you are reading far too much into something that I haven't actually written, I feel for both the families that lost a Son & Daughter, when my friends Dad shot himself and his wife it didn't change what I thought of him as that wasn't the man I knew! How dare you (once again) rip to pieces my comments for your own understanding, I will explain to you in person one day my feelings on the subject but then you only have one opinion as always and that's your own!!! Like I said I'm not condoning (sp) what he did and YES neither party can speak for themselves the PERSONAL events which led to that tragic day which is something you nor I can even begin to guess at! He was and will always be one of my SPEEDWAY heros for what he achieved ON TRACK his personal life is of no interest to me but certainly had to be included in the book, it couldn't of been that bad a write up as so many people contributed to adding their stories of Kenny ...... Like him or loathe him he is part of British Speedway history!!!! Read the book Parsloes if you're too tight to buy a copy I'll lend you mine ..... then come back and review it! You find what I've written "unacceptable" and .......... so what it's my opinion, you and others wont agree (but then that's REALLY no surprise to me) and quite frankly I don't care if you don't like what I say put me on IGNORE it's ever so easy Comment deleted - life's too short to try to sort a mess like this out. Rob McCaffery Edited December 27, 2009 by rmc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DK Rides Again 4 Posted December 28, 2009 Comment deleted - life's too short to try to sort a mess like this out. Rob McCaffery I read your original comment and it's not about that, nor is it difficult to work out that it's about human nature and curiosity. Let's assume, for a moment, that instead of doing what he did, Carter had sent out a press release saying that he was retiring from speedway, with immediate effect, and that he wanted nothing more to do with the sport; his career would've ended at the same point and, although not quite as dramatic, the end would've provoked some questions, for maybe a couple of years. After that, you would be left with records that show he didn't win very much and some anecdotal evidence that he was, at best, enigmatic and somewhat mercurial, at worst, a bit of an arrogant twit that wasn't as good as he would want us to believe; doesn't sound like the basis of a good book. The fact that his career ended as it did, is the enduring and thought provoking part; it's the thing that makes everyone wonder what demons he faced, what mental barriers he was trying to overcome and did those barriers and demons explain why he blew so hot and cold on the track. It's not about condoning murder, it's about the same curiosity (morbid though it may be) that makes people want to know about folk like James Dean or Marylin Monroe. Without the factual end of the Kenny Carter story, there is no story and there is no book. To my mind, this is a book that was waiting to be written, because it was waiting to be read, by a significant number of people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,935 Posted December 28, 2009 I read your original comment and it's not about that, Actually there were two posts deleted before rmc settled on this,the third try.The first one was ....well he deleted it,so it is best not to comment on deleted posts i think But i do wonder what sort of de-sensitized society we now live in when someone can kill another person and a third persons opinion of the killer isn't altered by this horrific event. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DK Rides Again 4 Posted December 28, 2009 Actually there were two posts deleted before rmc settled on this,the third try.The first one was ....well he deleted it,so it is best not to comment on deleted posts i think But i do wonder what sort of de-sensitized society we now live in when someone can kill another person and a third persons opinion of the killer isn't altered by this horrific event. Perhaps some of us, me included, prefer a society where we're allowed to make up our own minds, based on something more informed than just leaping to an obvious conclusion, and then not to be pilloried for having a view which differs from someone else's. I know that some people do bad things because they're intrinsically bad people, but I also know that some people do bad things when, for example, the balance of their mind is disturbed, despite it being out of character for them; since I haven't read the book, nor did I know Kenny Carter personally, I'm in no position to judge what caused him to do what he did, so I won't. What I will do is defend my right, and anyone else's, to not be pressganged into believing the worst about him, just because someone thinks that is the only correct path. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,935 Posted December 29, 2009 (edited) Perhaps some of us, me included, prefer a society where we're allowed to make up our own minds, based on something more informed than just leaping to an obvious conclusion, and then not to be pilloried for having a view which differs from someone else's. I know that some people do bad things because they're intrinsically bad people, but I also know that some people do bad things when, for example, the balance of their mind is disturbed, despite it being out of character for them; since I haven't read the book, nor did I know Kenny Carter personally, I'm in no position to judge what caused him to do what he did, so I won't. What I will do is defend my right, and anyone else's, to not be pressganged into believing the worst about him, just because someone thinks that is the only correct path. Pull yer neck in and come down from your pulpit Nowhere i my posts do you see me say someone can't have a differing opinion.This is a forum if you can't take people having another opinion this is the wrong place.If someone else has stated that,then kindly quote the right post.And just because a few people disagree with an opinion that isn't trying to "press gang" anyone.Take a look at any thread of any significance and tell me there ain't a nummebr of people agreeing and disagreeing with something.And anyway this is Shazzy you are talking about.Even if the whole blooming forum disagreed with her post she isn't going to be press ganged into changing her mind And i would imagine you have not only not read the book or knew Carter personally,but also never saw him ride and probably wouldn't know him from adam,because as far as i can gather you were only for a short period at the back end of the 60s and for a couple of meetings a few years back an active speedway fan,so are quite possibly just trolling this forum Edited December 29, 2009 by iris123 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DK Rides Again 4 Posted December 29, 2009 Yes,i look forward to reading "Hitler,not such a bad bloke after all" or the one on the Kray twins "What a couple of lovely lads,always nice to their Gran". But i do wonder what sort of de-sensitized society we now live in when someone can kill another person and a third persons opinion of the killer isn't altered by this horrific event. So these comments were not in any way designed to convey your opinion that the whole of Kenny Carter's existance should be clouded by what happened, and that anyone that thinks differently is wrong? As for my right to be a member of this forum, I have no need to justify myself to you but, since you brought it up, I regularly attended meetings from 1969 until some point in the early 80s, then I went to a couple in the 90s and, most recently, was a regular at Lakeside for a couple of seasons; since then, I've confined my watching to TV, mainly because work commitments have made it difficult to attend my prefered track and so I keep in touch by reading stuff on here and various club forums and websites. So put your troll detector away, it's broken. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,935 Posted December 29, 2009 (edited) So these comments were not in any way designed to convey your opinion that the whole of Kenny Carter's existance should be clouded by what happened, and that anyone that thinks differently is wrong? You can understand english i think.Read those comments thoroughly and show me where i have stated anyone with another opinion is wrong.The first bit was tongue in cheek and way ott.Even Shazzy could see that But it was just taking a pop at what i gathered was her opinion that one should never speak ill of the dead. The second post,yeak go on show me where i say any other opinion is wrong.If i say i can't understand that opinion or that the opinion isn't one i have,does that mean it is wrong?You're the expert,you tell me They are opinions.It isn't like saying someone rode 20 heats got 6 points and has an average of 8.That is either right or wrong Edited December 29, 2009 by iris123 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shazzybird 10 Posted December 29, 2009 (edited) You don't get it do you..? My advice is stop thinking everything's an argument and have a look again at what you've posted on three separate occasions now and ask yourself do you REALLY want to be seen as someone who holds these sorts of views... YAWN YAWN YAWN you're the one that doesn't "Get it" My advice to you is accept everyone has an opinion and not everyone with brown nose you, lay off the cooking Sherry and stop playing at judge and jury! I couldn't give a monkeyshít what you or anyone else think on my view on this subject, I commented on the book and you twisted it like always!!!! Get off my back! As for you RMC ...... I did see your postings they were emailed to me by some kind forum member and all I can say is luckily you deleted them! Edited December 29, 2009 by shazzybird Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Kenny Carter. I was still rubbishting my nappies when he ended his life but I'm still in awe of the speedway rider. He has managed to provoke many pages of debate that many speedway great have failed to do. What a rider. Kenny Carter the guy, what a idiot (and many other words even I'd not dare post on this forum) but what he did makes Kenny Carter the speedway rider, they explain one or two things. The guy was on the edge, he was a "mad man" (said in a good and a bad way). I recent joined a group on facebook, "You may think im a twit.....but your still thinking about me!!!" and that could well have been the title of Kennys book. Even 25 years on he is still making headlines in speedway and still causing people to argue and discuss. There's only one rider I wish I could have seen live, in his prime, Kenny. Stick your Penhalls, Olsens, Nielsens, Morans, Maugers, Collins, Lees...... Kenny is the guy who to this day I really wish I could see live. I'll end as I started, Kenny Carter the speedway rider I'm still in awe. Kenny Carter the person a right idiot but we needed him to be a idiot to love (or hate) him as a speedway rider. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted December 30, 2009 Kenny Carter. I was still rubbishting my nappies when he ended his life but I'm still in awe of the speedway rider. He has managed to provoke many pages of debate that many speedway great have failed to do. What a rider. Kenny Carter the guy, what a idiot(and many other words even I'd not dare post on this forum) but what he did makes Kenny Carter the speedway rider, they explain one or two things. The guy was on the edge, he was a "mad man" (said in a good and a bad way). I recent joined a group on facebook, "You may think im a twit.....but your still thinking about me!!!" and that could well have been the title of Kennys book. Even 25 years on he is still making headlines in speedway and still causing people to argue and discuss. There's only one rider I wish I could have seen live, in his prime, Kenny. Stick your Penhalls, Olsens, Nielsens, Morans, Maugers, Collins, Lees...... Kenny is the guy who to this day I really wish I could see live. I'll end as I started, Kenny Carter the speedway rider I'm still in awe. Kenny Carter the person a right idiot but we needed him to be a idiot to love (or hate) him as a speedway rider. Er, no-one thinks of Carter as a "twit" ... They either blank out the reality of the terrible thing he did and revere him. Or as I do, can't separate the shocking nature of what he did and grieve at the sheer terrible aspect of that whole business. As I said before, it wasn't just two lives lost that shocking day it was in large measure too the soul of our sport... If you think Speedway has ever recovered in the eyes of the mainstream media you are totally mistaken... And I post that sentence reluctantly because I don't want to be seen as joining the ranks of shazzy and co who minimise the human tragedy. But it has to be said, yes, Carter helped destroy Speedway as the media-popular sport Peter Collins in particular had made it just a few years earlier. You're young SCB, but Carter isn't fit to grease the chain of the incomparable PC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midland Red 2,383 Posted December 30, 2009 Er, no-one thinks of Carter as a "twit" ... They either blank out the reality of the terrible thing he did and revere him. Or as I do, can't separate the shocking nature of what he did and grieve at the sheer terrible aspect of that whole business. As I said before, it wasn't just two lives lost that shocking day it was in large measure too the soul of our sport... If you think Speedway has ever recovered in the eyes of the mainstream media you are totally mistaken... And I post that sentence reluctantly because I don't want to be seen as joining the ranks of shazzy and co who minimise the human tragedy. But it has to be said, yes, Carter helped destroy Speedway as the media-popular sport Peter Collins in particular had made it just a few years earlier. You're young SCB, but Carter isn't fit to grease the chain of the incomparable PC. Enough! I keep reading these posts, and the comments in Backtrack, and wonder if anyone really understands what can happen to someone's mental state - if you've read about Kenny's background in life, you would perhaps agree that it would probably have had a destabilising effect on him, which probably led to some of the "outrageouse" things which occurfrfed during his racing career. As far as the final act of his and Pam's life, there had probably been further build up of anguish in the brain, leading to even further, tragic, instability As one who in the last two years has suffered from a series of panic attacks, and now fears what may or may not be going on inside my head, and worrying about what others may consider trivia, I begin to understand a little about what mental illness can bring - perhaps some others need to stop and thank God that they don't suffer in any small way, 'cause it's no fun, I can tell you - I've felt the walls closing in on me and the head feeling as if it's going to burst, and that's only the tip of the mental illness iceberg, I know I do wonder, however, how the tragic events at Grey Horse Farm in Bradshaw could possibly be blamed in any way for the decline in the media-popularity of speedway, unless it was the exit of one of the country's brightest star riders from the scene, one who has never really been replaced I am surprised, nay, shocked, as Parsloes' comments above - Collins was a great rider, so too was Carter, so too were Lee, perhaps Loram, before them Wigg - the final sentence from Parsloes above post is unbelievably sad and untrue RIP Kenny and Pam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonyMac 720 Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) If you found our Kenny Carter book, Tragedy, a good read when it came out in 2007, then you will probably also enjoy our latest book, by Kenny's kid brother Alan. Light in the Darkness will be out later this month. Although Alan was a big road-racing star in his own right, his revealing autobiography is packed with interesting insights about Kenny and speedway, and some of his opinions will no doubt shock some people. I know Bruce Penhall has been amazed by what he has read - and he's read every page. Alan has effectively 'coloured in' the grey areas to be found in Tragedy - when we were denied access to the Carter family - and his is undoubtedly a much, much better book as a result. Let's face it, just about all of us have had our say about Kenny, so it's about time we heard what he was really like, on and off the track, from the man who knew him best. You can now read Alan's intro to his book on our website: http://www.retro-speedway.com Edited June 5, 2011 by tmc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
