iris123 20,938 Posted January 10, 2020 You seem to get withdrawal symptoms from here though during you sabbaticals !!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 10, 2020 54 minutes ago, iris123 said: You seem to get withdrawal symptoms from here though during you sabbaticals !!!! Fair point iris123. A lengthy break from the BSF as after this Post. TBH speedway - modern or historically - has little or nothing to offer me. I am sure other BSF posters and members will enjoy my pending departure even more than I will! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) I think Steve Roberts is correct - I'm sure the FIM declared that the 1969 World Pairs championship was official a few years ago. It would be nice to find a source for that. I don't think the 1968 event has ever been considered official. It had no semi-finals, only six teams in the final, including two West German teams, and many of the top nations were not present. In '69, there were two semi-finals and a final, with seven teams in the final. The only difference to 1970 was that there were six teams in the semi-finals in '69 and seven in '70. Edited January 10, 2020 by lucifer sam 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,101 Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, lucifer sam said: I'm sure the FIM declared that the 1969 World Pairs championship was official a few years ago. It would be nice to find a source for that. Interestingly, Peter Oakes book, "The Complete History of the British League", has this in reverse. He says, "The 1969 World [Pairs] Final is no longer recognised by the FIM even though gold medals were awarded at the time." Edited January 10, 2020 by norbold 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, norbold said: Interestingly, Peter Oakes book, "The Complete History of the British League", has this in reverse. He says, "The 1969 World [Pairs] Final is no longer recognised by the FIM even though gold medals were awarded at the time." Yes, which means it went from official to unofficial and then seemingly back to official again! I think it's only a few years ago that they decided that 1969 was official after all! Like Steve, I'm sure I saw it somewhere - would be interesting to know where! Mauger always included it in his tally - as far as he was concerned, he had the medal so it counted! Edited January 10, 2020 by lucifer sam 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,938 Posted January 10, 2020 Can also add the heat details for the 1939 Derby. Again another change of format and a straight 20 heats, no final Ht 1. Wilkinson, G.Pymar, W.Longley Ht 2. J.Parker, A.Atkinson, C.Milne Ht 3. J.Milne, L.V.Praag, N.Parker Ht 4. A.Statham, W.Lamoreaux, C.Spinks Ht 5. Wilkonson, C.Milne, A.Statham Ht 6.J.Milne + Lammy dead heat !!, G.Pymar Ht 7. A.Atkinson, W.Lloyd, W.Longley Ht 8. R.Harrison, C.Spinks, A.Lawson Ht 9. G.Pymar, C.Milne, N.Parker Ht 10. Wilkinson, J.Parker, W.Lloyd Ht 11. G.Pymar, A.Staham, A.Atkinson Ht 12. W.Lamoreaux, Van Praag, R.Harrison Ht 13. J.Milne, A.Staham, A.Lawson Ht 14. W.Lamoreaux, Wilkinson, N.Parker Ht 15. Van Praag, C.Spinks, J.Parker Ht 16. J.Milne, C.Milne, R.Harrison Ht 17. Van Praag, G.Pymar, W.Lloyd Ht 18. J.Milne, Wilkinson, A.Atkinson, Ht 19. W.Lamoreaux, W.Longley, C.Spinks (ex.tapes) Ht 20. A.Staham, J.Parker, R.Harrison 1. J.Milne 14.5 2. W.Lamoreaux 13.5, 3. Wilkinson 13 Costly point dropped by Lammy to Statham Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,086 Posted January 10, 2020 48 minutes ago, lucifer sam said: Yes, which means it went from official to unofficial and then seemingly back to official again! Only in speedway... 48 minutes ago, lucifer sam said: Mauger always included it in his tally - as far as he was concerned, he had the medal so it counted! Wouldn't you? 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robbie B 262 Posted January 10, 2020 And of course there was the 1968 World Pairs Final at Kempton, West Germany on 1 September when FIM medals were awarded to riders. http://www.speedwayplus.com/WorldPairs1968.shtml Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andout 650 Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, lucifer sam said: Yes, which means it went from official to unofficial and then seemingly back to official again! I think it's only a few years ago that they decided that 1969 was official after all! Like Steve, I'm sure I saw it somewhere - would be interesting to know where! Mauger always included it in his tally - as far as he was concerned, he had the medal so it counted! You can see that I had mentioned Mauger on the previous page and my discussions about this. His medal though never said "World Championship" according to the man himself! Edited January 10, 2020 by andout change 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,938 Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Robbie B said: And of course there was the 1968 World Pairs Final at Kempton, West Germany on 1 September when FIM medals were awarded to riders. http://www.speedwayplus.com/WorldPairs1968.shtml But do FIM medals mean anything as such ? I am just wondering, because at first, the Internationale meeting was an FIM meeting and presumably riders were awarded with FIM medals? Not sure on that though Edited January 10, 2020 by iris123 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andout 650 Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, iris123 said: But do FIM medals mean anything as such ? I am just wondering, because at first, the Internationale meeting was an FIM meeting and presumably riders were awarded with FIM medals? Not sure on that though FIM used to present medals at all their events, not sure if they still so but as they have run offs for their events I assume they do! I am still pretty sure the 1968 and the 1969 Pairs are NOT recognised as World Finals. But as I said before, I would like to be proven wrong. I have BOTH programmes and they mention World Championship nowhere! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,086 Posted January 10, 2020 26 minutes ago, andout said: I have BOTH programmes and they mention World Championship nowhere! Again, how many sports pride themselves on such meaningful names as "Best Pairs", "Revenge World Championship", "Overseas Final", and "Speedway of Nations"? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,938 Posted January 28, 2020 1930 Dirt Track Derby. Not quite as international as the others, with only Ray Tauser not Australian 1. D.Smythe, Bert Scott,F.Pearce e.f 2.Grosskreutz, C.Spinks,Don McPherson e.f 3.V.Huxley, R.Tauser, Frank Duckett 4. D.Case, H.Hastings, F.Arthur (Arthur was leading when his back tyre rolled off the rim, just as he was having a great tussle with Case) semi 1. Tauser, Smythe, Grosskreutz semi 2. V.Huxley, Case, Scott Final. Tauser, Huxley, Smythe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Przemek 5 Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) On 1/10/2020 at 6:58 PM, andout said: FIM used to present medals at all their events, not sure if they still so but as they have run offs for their events I assume they do! I am still pretty sure the 1968 and the 1969 Pairs are NOT recognised as World Finals. But as I said before, I would like to be proven wrong. I have BOTH programmes and they mention World Championship nowhere! Wiesław Dobruszek in his great "Mistrzostwa Świata Par" opus states expressly that 1970 Malmoe tournament was the first officially recognized World Pairs Final. 1968 Kempten was a trial meeting and after it had proven to be succesful FIM introduced the competition called FIM Best Pairs International Championship to the official fixture for 1969. In October 1969 during the FIM Congress at Ljubljana they at last decided to hold official World Pairs Championship starting from 1970. No word about posterior recognition 1969 final as the first official World Pairs Final. Edited September 22, 2020 by Przemek 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andout 650 Posted September 22, 2020 Absolutely correct.......I was one of the few that held that belief. I know the FIM does NOT recognize 68 & 69. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
