London History Site

[speedyguy 20]

I don't suppose they had any hard and fast rules. Clapton, West Ham and Wembley were all near enough I suppose.

 

Incidentally, West Ham, Clapton and High Beech used to take part in the Essex Cup as well.

 

 

Then I suppose the same criteria - if somebody decides that it's near enough it's okay for both the London Speedway site and books like 'Speedway in London'?

[norbold 7,106]

Sounds good to me.

[Beckford Boy 6]

I believe that the track at Barnet was in Mays Lane ,the same road that Barnet FC's Underhill ground is in today.Do any of you learned gentlemen know the exact locations of the tracks at Staines, Elstree, Chiswick and Greenford,all of which have been mentioned on here recently.Curiosity is my only reason for asking.

[norbold 7,106]

Barnet's track was, indeed in Mays Lane. Staines was at the Greyhound Stadium in Wraysbury Road; Elstree's track was in a field somewhere near Elstree , not sure exactly where; Chiswick Nomads were an "away" team without a track of their own, though I believe they used a former cycle speedway track on Mortlake Road for "get-togethers"; Greenford operated on the site of an old trotting track in Birbeck Avenue, Perivale

[Beckford Boy 6]

Thanks for the info'.I'm amazed at the site of the Greenford track,I know it well as one of my son's plays football there regularly.I can only assume that the houses that surround it now were not there then although there probably weren't many Nimbys around in those days.There is also a small enclosed non-league football ground adjacent to the main A40 on what must have been the site. As for Elstree, as you are unsure of the location I wonder if it could have been at the junction of what is now the A41 and A5183 opposite the old L.T. Aldenham bus overhaul works ( remember Summer Holiday, Cliff and his mates) ,about 40 years ago there was a flapping track there which consisted of a straight 200 yards or so dog race track.On the other hand it could have been contained in the Elstree Aerodrome site as I seem to remember reading in a V.S.M.article about Roger Frogley being connected with the flying club there. Any other theories anyone?

[DK Rides Again 4]

I will have to check with my copy of 'Speedway in London' to verify all this new data. It has also raised concerns as to whether Crystal Palace (Penge and Anerley UDC) and Wimbledon were also bona-fide London tracks. More importantly, it also gives doubt as to the validity of both the London Riders Championship and London Cup in the sport's early days.

 

If the culling of clubs advocated for the London Speedways was to be followed, I can only see these as genuine London tracks - Catford, Harringay, Hackney, New Cross and Stamford Bridge...and the Chiswick training circuit.

 

http://londonspeedways.proboards.com/index.cgi

 

 

Don't know about Wimbledon but, strictly speaking, Crystal Palace was in Kent.

 

Crystal Palace park is in the Borough of Bromley, which became a London Borough in 1965, prior to that it was part of the Garden Of England.

[cityrebel 2,960]

as a collector of most things to do with london speedway this is the method i use. i only collect tracks that operated within the present greater london boundary. if they extend this area to include high beech, rye house and arena essex i might have to think again!.

[norbold 7,106]

I think your definition of a "London" track is a fair one, cityrebel, and one I would certainly go along with.

[speedyguy 20]

as a collector of most things to do with london speedway this is the method i use. i only collect tracks that operated within the present greater london boundary. if they extend this area to include high beech, rye house and arena essex i might have to think again!.

 

 

 

Are Rye House, High Beech and Arena Esses/Lakeside the tracks that cause most concern for inclusion on ---

 

http://londonspeedways.proboards.com/index.cgi

 

 

High Beech is served - virtually - by London buses and the tube network. I have in younger years walked to and from the venue after riding out on the underground to Loughton.

Rye House - virtually above north London and the land of the Spurs football club - on the same railway line from Liverpool Street.

Arena Essex - well served to the Lakeside shopping centre from London (green line buses??).

It would need a good reason not to include them as London Speedways IMO.

[cityrebel 2,960]

Are Rye House, High Beech and Arena Esses/Lakeside the tracks that cause most concern for inclusion on ---

 

http://londonspeedways.proboards.com/index.cgi

 

 

High Beech is served - virtually - by London buses and the tube network. I have in younger years walked to and from the venue after riding out on the underground to Loughton.

Rye House - virtually above north London and the land of the Spurs football club - on the same railway line from Liverpool Street.

Arena Essex - well served to the Lakeside shopping centre from London (green line buses??).

It would need a good reason not to include them as London Speedways IMO.

as with all forms of collecting you have to draw the line somewhere. the greater london boundary is as good a line as any.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

Don't know about Wimbledon but, strictly speaking, Crystal Palace was in Kent.

 

Crystal Palace park is in the Borough of Bromley, which became a London Borough in 1965, prior to that it was part of the Garden Of England.

 

Are you sure..?

I know Bromley is/was in Kent but I'd have said that Crystal Palace was more likely to have been (back then..) in Surrey..???

[norbold 7,106]

Wikipedia goes along with Crystal Palace having been in Kent:

 

"Several localities claim to be the area to which [Crystal Palace] was relocated. The street address of the Crystal Palace was Sydenham S.E (SE26 after 1917), but the actual building and parklands were in Penge. At the time of relocation most of the buildings were in Croydon, as were a majority of the grounds. In 1899, the county boundary was moved, transferring the entire site to Penge Urban District in Kent. The site is now within the Crystal Palace Ward of the London Borough of Bromley."

Edited March 10, 2009 by norbold

[DK Rides Again 4]

Wikipedia goes along with Crystal Palace having been in Kent:

 

"Several localities claim to be the area to which [Crystal Palace] was relocated. The street address of the Crystal Palace was Sydenham S.E (SE26 after 1917), but the actual building and parklands were in Penge. At the time of relocation most of the buildings were in Croydon, as were a majority of the grounds. In 1899, the county boundary was moved, transferring the entire site to Penge Urban District in Kent. The site is now within the Crystal Palace Ward of the London Borough of Bromley."

 

 

Part of the problem with Crystal Palace, as a place, is that I'm not certain it even exists.

 

As that, unusually accurate, Wiki quote says, the park is in Penge (and always has been, despite the fact that for many years the idea that it was in Sydenham was the popular currency) and, in fact, at the time that Joseph Paxton negotiated for use of the park for the relocation of the Palace, it was known as Penge Place, at Sydenham Hill.

 

It would seem that referring to the area as 'Crystal Palace' started out as a popular colloquialism and just drifted into universal use; I haven't looked very hard, but I haven't seen any references that can tell me if or when it became official.

 

If you live around here, it's always been a bit difficult to pin down, because the area straddles five boroughs and at least three postal areas, and it seems to be constantly moving; since coming here in 1973, we've had the postcode changed three times (and some postcode recognition software still doesn't accept our current one, which can cause havoc with things like credit searches and online shopping) and for the first few years, the whole house was in Lewisham, except the kitchen, which was in Lewisham!

 

Anyway, the fact is that Crystal Palace speedway track, while it was operating, was firmly in Kent.

 

As an aside, I've recently seen some aerial pictures of the park grounds taken in about 1950; I was under the impression that the track was pretty much destroyed by the anti-aircraft installations, but these pictures show, plain as day, what looks like an intact circuit, complete with concrete starting grid and grandstands.

 

Seems a shame that it couldn't have been resurrected to take advantage of the post war boom.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

As that, unusually accurate, Wiki quote says, the park is in Penge (and always has been, despite the fact that for many years the idea that it was in Sydenham was the popular currency) and, in fact, at the time that Joseph Paxton negotiated for use of the park for the relocation of the Palace, it was known as Penge Place, at Sydenham Hill.

 

One of the extraordinary things about south London (one which marks it out as totally different from East London certainly...) is the amazing number of 'places' there... There are just an prolific number of areas all with their own place names and all still used, all around Crystal Palace... Penge, Sydenham, Anerley, Norwood, Thornton Heath, Selhurst...: and as RKRA says, that excludes Crystal Palace itself which isn't really an area name at all...!!!

[DK Rides Again 4]

One of the extraordinary things about south London (one which marks it out as totally different from East London certainly...) is the amazing number of 'places' there... There are just an prolific number of areas all with their own place names and all still used, all around Crystal Palace... Penge, Sydenham, Anerley, Norwood, Thornton Heath, Selhurst...: and as RKRA says, that excludes Crystal Palace itself which isn't really an area name at all...!!!

 

 

I think you'll find there's plenty of area names still in use in East London (and every other part of London) but the main thing that effected my area was the arrival of the railway first, and then the Palace.

 

Back in the mid 1800s, there were a lot of little villages that had grown up to take advantage of the industry created by the 'Great North Wood', but the area was still pretty sparsely populated; what joined them all together was the tourist industry that grew around the Palace.

 

Just to use one example, in 1851 the population of Sydenham was 4500, ten years later (the Palace reopened in 1854) it was up to nearly 11000 and, by 1900, it was 40000; the same thing happened to all the other nearby villages such as Penge, Anerley and Norwood (which gained it's name as a contraction of the previously mentioned North Wood).

 

I think we've gone OT far enough to mention another little aside connected with my adopted area of London; did you know that Southend-on-sea is so named to differentiate it from Southend in London?

 

Ten points, a gold star and a 'tick VG' to anyone that can name what Southend is called now