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johnb

Riders Who Never Made It?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Tsunami said:

But he never left the white line, and that was his undoing.

If I remember rightly Daz Sumner took the fire extinguisher at the starting gate out one night at Oxford  So definitely a white line hugger.

Though it was the result of a big dingdong coming out of the pitbend

Should've taken lessons off Cocker he sold anyone and everyone down the river round the pitbend 

Edited by Triple.H.
Predictive text had me again
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14 hours ago, Vince said:

As he was in the U15's with my lad who is 29 I reckon you're 10 years out!

Not quite sure what you point is.

I posted the comments in July 2009 which is nearly 10 years, so Josh Auty would have been 18 or 19 years old. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, spin king said:

Not quite sure what you point is.

I posted the comments in July 2009 which is nearly 10 years, so Josh Auty would have been 18 or 19 years old. 

Brilliant!  This is what happens when a conversation takes place over a decade. 

PS William Lawson for me.  Had bags of ability as a Gem but seemed be reluctant to make the sacrifices his talent deserved.

Edited by enotian

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Much is said about Phil Collins IMO he was the least committed  of the Collins family ( make no mistake he was an excellent rider) but again I always got the impresssion it didn't matter to him as much as it needed to be a superstar as it were .It was a natural step for him to enter the sport just like the rest of his brothers  but for me Peter and Neil just had the killer instict .Phil could have been world class he just was not that interested enough in the sport to do so and that is IMO the reason why  he left the sport at his peak.

Edited by FAST GATER

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18 hours ago, chunky said:

There is a big difference between "not fulfilling your potential" and "not making it". Virtually no rider has "fulfilled their potential" or "won what they should have won". You can certainly include riders like Jessup, Tatum, Carter etc. You can even say the same for Collins and Lee, but obviously, nobody is going to claim that they "made it".

Of course, not everyone is going to reach the top level, and to say that because they didn't, they "never made it". Can you REALLY claim that Tom Owen, Steve Lawson, and John Jackson "never made it", just because they weren't international superstars? Not that any of them really tried to make it at the very top level...

I do like the example used above by Stoke Potter, yet of all the riders mentioned here, Daz Sumner could probably be classed as the biggest waste of talent of anyone! However, I do feel he "made it". Yes, Chris Turner should have done more, and perhaps Paul Tyrer, yet I am still reluctant to say that they didn't make it.

Cobby, on the other hand, was a good example, as was Musson. I would throw in Julian Parr, Declan Eccles, Robert Lightfoot, Keith Millard, Andy Phillips, and riders of that ilk. Millard and Lightfoot had their moments, but were never able to build on what they had started to achieve, and before you knew it, their careers were over.

Thinking about it now, Chris Turner does fall into that category...

Steve

Having known John Jackson well his issue of making it to the very top was all in his head  the fact that he found riding a s/way bike so easy  had a negative affect when the going and opposition   got tough .

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15 hours ago, Tsunami said:

But he never left the white line, and that was his undoing.

Reminds me of Jon Surman during the days of declared compulsory juniors in the British League. A tremendous white line rider who used to put himself about a bit in the first bend and although rather one paced and never really progressed he used to make it hard work for others who had to get round him giving his team colleague a chance to pull away and develop a lead which was basically his remit.

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13 minutes ago, FAST GATER said:

Having known John Jackson well his issue of making it to the very top was all in his head  the fact that he found riding a s/way bike so easy  had a negative affect when the going and opposition   got tough .

Always recall when John whilst doubling up with Wolves in 1976 (the year Wolves ran a 'horses-for-courses' policy!) he anticpated the starts at White City and got away with it everytime much to annoyance of the home crowd before the referee eventually cottoned on but only after the match had been lost.

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18 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Always recall when John whilst doubling up with Wolves in 1976 (the year Wolves ran a 'horses-for-courses' policy!) he anticpated the starts at White City and got away with it everytime much to annoyance of the home crowd before the referee eventually cottoned on but only after the match had been lost.

That was his best year at top level Bill Bridgett approached us for John to ride at Wolves that  year because he had Jimmy Mac and George Hunter in the team and they would look after him ,his job was to gate and they would take care of thye opposition .John was at that time one of the fastest riders in British s/way (holding a number of track records) on engines tuned by brother Fred it worked treat we had a fab season  .  It was pobable the best season of his career and with hindsight we should then have gone full time Gulf league but my father wanted to watch him each week at Elle Port and he was his main sponsor ,he would not have been as generous  had John moved up .

 

Sponsorship and financial backing often have a major effect on riders careers for obvious reasons !

Edited by FAST GATER
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9 hours ago, spin king said:

Not quite sure what you point is.

I posted the comments in July 2009 which is nearly 10 years, so Josh Auty would have been 18 or 19 years old. 

Ah! that explains a lot, my bad :D

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2 hours ago, FAST GATER said:

That was his best year at top level Bill Bridgett approached us for John to ride at Wolves that  year because he had Jimmy Mac and George Hunter in the team and they would look after him ,his job was to gate and they would take care of thye opposition .John was at that time one of the fastest riders in British s/way (holding a number of track records) on engines tuned by brother Fred it worked treat we had a fab season  .  It was pobable the best season of his career and with hindsight we should then have gone full time Gulf league but my father wanted to watch him each week at Elle Port and he was his main sponsor ,he would not have been as generous  had John moved up .

 

Sponsorship and financial backing often have a major effect on riders careers for obvious reasons !

One of my favourite riders Gater John, i  see him a few times for Wolves he was always a BL standard rider.I would say Joe Owen, Tom Owen, Steve Wilcock, John at Elle, Steve Lawson were great over a long period in the NL.

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16 hours ago, enotian said:

Brilliant!  This is what happens when a conversation takes place over a decade. 

PS William Lawson for me.  Had bags of ability as a Gem but seemed be reluctant to make the sacrifices his talent deserved.

Rather more a case of a father/mechanic who didn't agree with the career path that William seemed destined to follow when I ran the Gems in 2002 and 2003, and this behaviour continued at Edinburgh and elsewhere. After winning races well, his father would undo the settings and make Willian less competitive. William was a natural, with a great drive-in style, rather than a run-in style, and was destined for a very promising future. Unfortunately just as he was settling in well in mid 2002, he broke his leg badly and that stopped his progress until his resumption in 2003. 

Edited by Tsunami
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Andy Hackett, always seemed to be too good at reserve and not quite good enough for second string and this was when the British League was a lot lot stronger than it is these days. From memory he just seemed to be making a bit of a breakthrough at Coventry then broke his ankle and never really recovered... Didn't he end up at Oxford before retiring?

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4 minutes ago, iainb said:

Andy Hackett, always seemed to be too good at reserve and not quite good enough for second string and this was when the British League was a lot lot stronger than it is these days. From memory he just seemed to be making a bit of a breakthrough at Coventry then broke his ankle and never really recovered... Didn't he end up at Oxford before retiring?

...Yes he ended up at Oxford and despite an earlier observation regarding white line riding I thought Andy's approach was just to wind it on and take a blast around the outside which wasn't often the best approach around Cowley where trackcraft was more the necessary way.

Edited by steve roberts

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15 minutes ago, iainb said:

Andy Hackett, always seemed to be too good at reserve and not quite good enough for second string and this was when the British League was a lot lot stronger than it is these days. From memory he just seemed to be making a bit of a breakthrough at Coventry then broke his ankle and never really recovered... Didn't he end up at Oxford before retiring?

The league as a whole was a lot stronger, but the reserve riders were not necessarily the case. Many sides had complete juniors at No 7, some at both 6 and 7.

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6 hours ago, BWitcher said:

The league as a whole was a lot stronger, but the reserve riders were not necessarily the case. Many sides had complete juniors at No 7, some at both 6 and 7.

There was at least one season where the teams HAD to field a junior at reserve. Never understood that, throwing kids in at the deep end; the only thing that will do is destroy their confidence and probably force them out of the sport.

Funny, but while I mentioned a certain quality of rider earlier in the thread, there was a group at a slightly lower level I was also going to mention. Riders like Andy Hackett, Jon Surman, Chris Mulvihill, Gary Tagg, Richard Pettman etc... Of that crowd, I felt that Hackett had the most potential - and was certainly the most exciting!

Steve

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