Swc - The Joker

[Midnight_Lady 2]

To add another twist, does anyone else think that a rider should not be able to borrow another team members bike. It was plain to see that Gollob's was not up to scratch yesterday.

 

What a ridiculous thing to suggest especially as it's a team event

[al4elt 0]

This is one of speedway's great myths...that GB would have won the title that year if Hans hadn't got in Scott's way. This was rubbish then, and it's still rubbish now! Certainly Hans stopped Scott from getting past but it fails to acknowledge that PK - who'd been brilliant all night - had made a superb gate and was half a straight ahead of Scott and Hans at the time. SWEDEN won the title that year...GB were not robbed of certain victory!

 

I seem to remeber Hans looking over his right shoulder whilst Scott was pinned watching and waiting for PK to pass.

[al4elt 0]

What a ridiculous thing to suggest especially as it's a team event

 

Agreed, just wanted to see others thoughts.

 

I remember the days of if your bike was bent or off the pace your only option was the track spare.

 

Now that could have been fun.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Dean'o

[lupus 1]

I seem to remeber Hans looking over his right shoulder whilst Scott was pinned watching and waiting for PK to pass.

 

Then you'll also remember that the fastest line that day was round the outside down the back straight.....exactly where PK was riding.

[al4elt 0]

Then you'll also remember that the fastest line that day was round the outside down the back straight.....exactly where PK was riding.

 

Fair comment, although who knows how fast Scott's run up the inside could have been if Hans had not shut his throttle off. I'm not arguing over who won the race or who was faster. It has been said on this thread by some that every rider should race to win, not race to manipulate the score, ie to ride for second to ensure that Poland could not play the joker. I'm simply stating that it has gone on before and it will happen again.

[ColnagoDream 4]

So to sum up the World cup final. If Jason Crump had come second in last ride instead of winning it, Australia would have won the final but because he won it they came second. Try selling that to the non speedway public.

[lupus 1]

Fair comment, although who knows how fast Scott's run up the inside could have been if Hans had not shut his throttle off. I'm not arguing over who won the race or who was faster. It has been said on this thread by some that every rider should race to win, not race to manipulate the score, ie to ride for second to ensure that Poland could not play the joker. I'm simply stating that it has gone on before and it will happen again.

 

Fair enough....as a huge PK fan I just get annoyed that his 'victory' that day is frequently put down to the fact that Scott was robbed. The fact is that PK was riding better than Nicholls that day anyway and the chances are he would have won the race anyway. There was no 'collusion' between PK and Andersen - Andersen made the decision to lock down Nicholls himself. PK was just riding his own race on the best line.

 

You are right that these things have happened before and will happen again but that's the nature of the game. For years the Americans used to 'help' their fellow countrymen through to the World Finals etc and people were often up in arms about this. Personally I think it was the Brits who got it wrong and were too busy trying to be the number one brit all the time instead of helping each other. Other people may disagree with this but that was my personal opinion at the time and remains so now!

Edited July 20, 2009 by lupus

[topaz325 1,855]

In the Daily Star today it says the "Aussie's were robbed"....................mmmm

 

i must have missed that bit?

[The~SAINT 0]

There is nothing to discuss, really.

 

Any rule that benefits a losing team in order to make the event artificially closer than it actually is, is open to abuse by the teams taking part.

 

Encouraging a team to lose points in order to manipulate the score brings a sport into disrepute.

 

It is also an insult to the spectators who pay to see the best team win.

 

If a sport has to artificially manipulate the scoring system in order to keep fans interest then it does not deserve the support of those fans.

ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON !!!

[al4elt 0]

Back to the main point of this thread - The Joker.

 

I understand why the joker exists. Its there to keep the score lines close and therefore some will say yesterdays result proves its worth. Afterall it provided a last heat decider.

 

However the fact that a well played joker can completely reverse a points situation as it did yesterday is wrong. In league racing the best outcome would be to reduce the lead a team has not cancel it out completely.

 

Therfore you have to conclude that Australia were the victims of a poor rule system which in my opinoin need's to be looked at.

 

 

[ipswichwitches 16]

Back to the main point of this thread - The Joker.

 

I understand why the joker exists. Its there to keep the score lines close and therefore some will say yesterdays result proves its worth. Afterall it provided a last heat decider.

 

However the fact that a well played joker can completely reverse a points situation as it did yesterday is wrong. In league racing the best outcome would be to reduce the lead a team has not cancel it out completely.

 

Therfore you have to conclude that Australia were the victims of a poor rule system which in my opinoin need's to be looked at.

Agreed. In the EL, you need to be 10 behind before using the tactical ride. If that works to plan and you get the 8-1, you're still 3 points behind. Maybe in the SWC, the joker should be used when you're 8 or 9 behind, so although you can wipe out most of the defecit, the team that was in the lead is still in the lead, but now only by 2 or 3 points. Would seem much fairer than the current ruling.

[oldtimer 340]

The joker is there to make the scores closer and the meeting more interesting, it does not make the racing better. All this is fair enough if the powers that be just want speedway to be an entertainment, however this is short sighted, as speedway would be better served if what should be the most important meeting in the calander was taken seriously by the media. The Joker ensures this will never happen.

[RacerDon 5]

The joker is there to make the scores closer and the meeting more interesting, it does not make the racing better. All this is fair enough if the powers that be just want speedway to be an entertainment, however this is short sighted, as speedway would be better served if what should be the most important meeting in the calander was taken seriously by the media. The Joker ensures this will never happen.

 

In truth the joker(s) has never once revived a one sided speedway meeting, but has been used on numerous occasions to allow almost evenly matched teams to produce a completely unjust result, often in critical matches. Yesterday was a clear example of this, with the most blatant of course being in 2006.

 

All well within the rules, and I suppose it can be fairly said that, like Reading three years ago, Jason Crump rode honestly and fairly to win his heat, and in doing so naively played right into the opponent's hands.

 

 

 

[lucifer sam 3,953]

In truth the joker(s) has never once revived a one sided speedway meeting, but has been used on numerous occasions to allow almost evenly matched teams to produce a completely unjust result, often in critical matches. Yesterday was a clear example of this, with the most blatant of course being in 2006.

 

All well within the rules, and I suppose it can be fairly said that, like Reading three years ago, Jason Crump rode honestly and fairly to win his heat, and in doing so naively played right into the opponent's hands.

 

Whilst I agree about the unfairness of the joker, I'm not sure what you're talking about. The Danes won at Reading in 2006 without the use of a joker.

 

All the best

Rob

 

[Grachan 7,362]

Whilst I agree about the unfairness of the joker, I'm not sure what you're talking about. The Danes won at Reading in 2006 without the use of a joker.

 

All the best

Rob

 

I think he means Peterborough v Reading Rob.