Phil 303 Posted October 19, 2003 Should the Premier League points limit stay at 45 or drop to 40. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GoldFool Posted October 19, 2003 depends on how many teams there will be in the Premier. i think they ought to start at the top and work their way down, make the Elite league an attractive package for the top Premier teams/promotions and go from there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mylor 0 Posted October 19, 2003 Whatever encourages CL teams to move up or helps new tracks to enter the PL directly. Let the sport grow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT 167 Posted October 19, 2003 Putting the points limit down to 40 is basically designing your team to lose. :roll: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lioness 1,452 Posted October 19, 2003 Look at the averages of the finishing PL league teams. The majority will have to make adjust ments to reduce to 45. To ask them to reduce to 40 would be farcical and lead to more current PL second strings being unable to find a berth. Instead teams would be more inclined to ride with lower average riders and would be plucking CL riders before they were ready or bringing in foreigners with patriality. Result? A weakened CL, riders being forced to step up to PL level before they are ready and more sub standard foreign riders in the PL. As a result the sport in the UK would become weaker in so far as young GB talent is concerned and the incentive for current reserves to step up is removed and any natural progression made more difficult. Just my opinion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sean 3 Posted October 19, 2003 i can see too many PL riders without team places if they take the limit down to 40. and that would have an effect on the CL with them trying to find places there, which only puts the youth of tomorrow at risk, stopping them from getting a place. why do they have to play with the only rule that is basically self explanitory. 45 pts is a match win , 40 is building a team to lose , Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dekker 239 Posted October 19, 2003 Should the Premier League points limit stay at 45 or drop to 40. As the decision is being made for no other reason that of so called reducing the costs logic plays no part in the farce of going as low as 40. All the promoters in favour of 40 want is a pool of unemployed riders available to force wages down. Such thinking should have gone out years ago. A 40 point limit will just reduce the quality of the PL and put more cheap wobblers into the league. If their are teams that cant afford to build to 45 in the PL then they should drop to the CL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mylor 0 Posted October 19, 2003 ...........40 is building a team to lose , A red herring I think Sean. If all teams started at 40, of course their combined average at the end of the season would be 45. If they make it, say 42 or 40 then perhaps one or two CL teams could pick up some decent riders to help them make the move which I think goes some way to answering Lioness's points. Has this been tried before? If so, what actually happened and did the league grow? It would, of course be a waste of time and talent if it didn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lioness 1,452 Posted October 19, 2003 Sorry Mylor I am not sure how it answers some of my points, can you clarify a bit for me please (I'm blonde I tend to be a bit slow on the uptake!) The way I see it the ones who will be dropped and suffer the most are thos 5 and 6 point second strings. Somebody like for example say Derek Sneddon who will probably be on an average of around 5.2. Too high for the CL but not experienced enough for a CL team to consider him a suitable 'old hand'. Teams would then look towards the CL to steal their best youngsters on 3 points PL average. Teams would then try and persuade some of the potential stars of the future to step up-say someone like Adam Roynon. Undoubtedly a talent but not ready to step up as yet but if he knocks it back he might not get another chance so he has to step up when not ready.(I say like Adam as I realise he is too young atm). Soon the youngsters who look good prospects are snapped up. So instead of then taking a risk on guys like for example Gary Flint (no disrespect meant) they decide with the new countries in the EU to go for a cheap 3 point Czech instead. I just cant see how it would make UK speedway anything other than weaker. It would seriously affect all three leagues, British riders would be most susceptable to loosing their place and it becomes even more of a curse than ever being second string. theres no incentive for reserves to improve because to do so they either have to be superstars like Eddie Kennett and get to heat leader in a oner else by improving they do themselves out of a team spot. I am probably being very niave here, I don't have the depth of knowledge of speedway many on the forum have. Please feel free to put me right on where I've gone wrong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgl07 0 Posted October 19, 2003 A red herring I think Sean.If all teams started at 40, of course their combined average at the end of the season would be 45. Not it would be nearer 47 points because bonus points are included. If they make it, say 42 or 40 then perhaps one or two CL teams could pick up some decent riders to help them make the move which I think goes some way to answering Lioness's points. Has this been tried before? If so, what actually happened and did the league grow? It would, of course be a waste of time and talent if it didn't. Yes it was tried year after year in the late 1990s with figures of 41 and 43 points. It had no noticable effect on the strength of the Premier League. What it did produce was average fiddling with teams leaving out middle order riders and stuffing the bottom end with no hopers. When the first averages were issued and certain riders had massaged their averages down, out went the three pointers and in came middle order reiders from the out of work pool. The PL was very unatable at the time with lots of uncertainty about which tracks would run often until just before the season started. The PL had around 13 or 14 tracks at the time. Since the decision to fix the points limit at 45 the PL has had stability and has also become financially more secure. This has been reflected in its growth to 18 tracks. The Pl has become too big. A few tracks dropping down might help the likes of Mildenhall, Wimbledon and Boston to create a third division. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mylor 0 Posted October 19, 2003 Thanks Lioness/jgl. I am now a goodly bit wiser. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil 303 Posted October 20, 2003 One of the problems I find with speedway is too often you have to break teams up, if it went to 40 points then it would make it even bigger of a problem. More riders might become available at the end of the season and some teams would start throwing silly money to try and get them, which would result in costs going up! On the other hand it could depend on the rules for doubling up / down but if the likes of Shields, Stead, Harris, Stoney, Gjedde, Kylmakorpi, (names just used as examples!!) who are doing alright in the EL moved up permanently. Then there is going to be less top heat leaders about. Some teams might even struggle to get to 45 points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midnight_Lady 2 Posted October 20, 2003 To me it's simple. There are 90 points in a match. Two teams take part in said match therefore 45 points is the correct figure for averages and team building to make that match as balanced as possible. It's a fallacy people/promoters thinking that lowering the average will save them financially :? It will also put many riders out of work :x Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgl07 0 Posted October 20, 2003 On the other hand it could depend on the rules for doubling up / down but if the likes of Shields, Stead, Harris, Stoney, Gjedde, Kylmakorpi, (names just used as examples!!) who are doing alright in the EL moved up permanently. Then there is going to be less top heat leaders about. Some teams might even struggle to get to 45 points. Highly unlikely. There are plenty of Swedish and Danish riders who might be keen to have a crack at PL racing on a 9.00 point average. There will always be riders squeezed out of the EL who could drop down. The whole thing looks like a cock-up attempt by EL apologists to try and undermine the PL and 'bounce' tracks into moving up to the EL. It will not work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gary 0 Posted October 20, 2003 45 points. No question. Even 46 wouldn't hurt. There are enough 2nd string riders out of work now or riding in the farce of a Conference League. It may also stop the 'sandbagging' of averages toards the end of the season by riders to ensure their team place for the following year. I am not having a go at the CL racing, just the farcical rules that allow Mark Burrows, Neil Collins and Andy Smith ride at that level but not riders like Ritchie Hawkins. I still think the way forward is to let the CL become a professional division (including allowing 15 year olds to race) and young riders blooded in a more organised, respected and officially recognised Youth Development League, run in the second half of main meetings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
