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Phil

Premier League Points Limit 45 or 40

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Should the Premier League points limit stay at 45 or drop to 40.

 

As the decision is being made for no other reason that of so called reducing the costs logic plays no part in the farce of going as low as 40. All the promoters in favour of 40 want is a pool of unemployed riders available to force wages down. Such thinking should have gone out years ago.

 

A 40 point limit will just reduce the quality of the PL and put more cheap wobblers into the league. If their are teams that cant afford to build to 45 in the PL then they should drop to the CL

 

Yep its not going to work never has done never will. the idera that the PL gets nearer the EL will get wiped out by this idear as well Typically Tim Stone seems to be one of the six :evil:

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The points limit should never be less than 46 points with bonus or 42 points without bonus. Those are equilibriums to which averages will always return, and anything less means kicking a few middle-order riders out of the sport in favour of 3.00-point numpties. The only exception is when the league increases in size, and you need to redistribute riders to the new teams coming in, but that should only happen for one season.

 

Personally, I'd favour a points limit slightly higher than the equilibrum to reward promoters with initiative, and to prevent the wholesale destruction of successful teams (and particularly high-placed teams that don't actually win anything). Something like 48 points with bonus would be reasonable.

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Have to agree Kevin 46 or 42 as a minimum

 

If the thought is of expansion then we really must look at splitting the division with (say) a 48-49 average for the top half and the 40 quoted for the lower half allowing those CL teams that wanted to make the step up lives a little easier

 

As with all things we will await the mess that is the EL to sort itself out and then the PL will have to pick up the pieces

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Guest Sir Lunchalot
To me it's simple. There are 90 points in a match. Two teams take part in said match therefore 45 points is the correct figure for averages and team building to make that match as balanced as possible.

 

Not quite ML !! You are right in saying their are 90 points in a match BUT averages are always calculated on the basis of 4 rides a meeting (so if you had 5 rides and scored 2,2,2,2,2 your average would be 10/5 x 4 = 8]. Factor that into the equation and the break even (without bonus points) is 42.

 

The easiest way to think of it is (theoretically) at 4 rides per person per team adds up to 14 heats and 84 points.

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The easiest way to think of it is (theoretically) at 4 rides per person per team adds up to 14 heats and 84 points.

Add in the bonus points and it comes to 46.6667 for a seven man team.

 

I can demonstrate this using probability analysis if anyone doubts this.

 

In practise the aggregate average may be slightly higher as the better riders will tend to get more rides though tactical substitutions and reserve replacements.

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Add in the bonus points and it comes to 46.6667 for a seven man team.

 

Of course, you also have to take into account that there will be a number of dropped points during the season. In addition, GDTS and guest rides are not included in the averages.

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To me it's simple.  

 

Not quite ML !! You are right in saying their are 90 points in a match BUT averages are always calculated on the basis of 4 rides a meeting (so if you had 5 rides and scored 2,2,2,2,2 your average would be 10/5 x 4 = 8]. Factor that into the equation and the break even (without bonus points) is 42.

 

The easiest way to think of it is (theoretically) at 4 rides per person per team adds up to 14 heats and 84 points.

 

Come on Lunchy, I did say to me it was simple :P;)

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Typical Male ML....they have to confuse things :lol: :twisted:

 

I'm with you!

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The 45 limit has to stay.

 

If it went to 40 a lot of teams will have to break up the mould they have set.

 

Sheffield for example have had a very consistent side for years, this is due to youngsters developing and knowing they will have a place next year if they are good enough.

 

Generally the maximum number of riders that change from the previous season is 2.

 

45 encourages riders to progress but not at an unachievable rate.

 

If the 40 pt limit is introduced, Ricky Ashworth will probably then be second heat leader behind Sean, which is too much to ask for a rider who was reserve at the beginning of this season, same goes for the likes of Ed Kennett and Rory Schlein.

 

NOTE TO BSPA - STOP CHANGING THE RULES.

Create some stability in the sport.

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NOTE TO BSPA - STOP CHANGING THE RULES.

Create some stability in the sport.

 

Yes, it seems like every year they look to change things just for the sake of it!

I really don't think this is the solution to reduce costs.

 

“Speculation suggests many clubs are in favour of reducing the points limit in a bid to cut costs for the 2004 campaign.”

 

“A meeting of all PL clubs will take place at British Speedway's HQ in Rugby, Warwickshire, tomorrow where next season's plans will again be discussed.”

 

http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle....rticleID=682347

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If there's going to be a points limit, the logical figure is 42 NOT including bonus points.

 

A points limit of 40 is just ridiculous. It looks like nothing more than strugling teams looking for a chance to get up the league a bit without making much effort.

 

Also, a 40 limit (including bonus points presumably) is going to put riders out of work because they can't be fitted into the teams. Then, when all the averages go up the following year, more riders will be out of work.

 

A side effect of this will also be more 'old hands' going into the Conference League because they can't get a team place, thus causing youngsters to struggle for places in that league.

 

Given a choice of the two it has to be 45.

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Agree it should either be 45 including bonus points, or 42 excluding bonus points (thereby reflecting actual match scores).

 

If it were drop to 40, in addition to putting riders out of work (probably 1 heat leader per team), you would probably find there would be an excess demand for riders in the 5 - 7 point range who in turn could raise their demands, thereby defeating the so called cost cutting rationale of a points deduction to 40.

 

Alternatively, I fear that we could end up with top heavy sides which retain their heat leaders and fill positions 4 - 7 with 3 and 4 pointers. Then instead of getting real four man races, in most heats we could also end up with type of racing common in the EL where the big guns slug it out at the front, whilst some way behind, the minnows scrap for 3rd & 4th.

 

In good old rock & roll speak lets keep the Status Quo :!: :lol:

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I wonder if anyone who wants this 40pt limit has actually thought about what it would mean team building wise.

Consider the season just finished.Glasgow finished 12th,we rode for the most part with two heat leaders.If we had a 40pt limit and wanted to use our own assets plus those who rode last season on loan to us this could be our team:

1.Stancl 9.13

2.Leverington 4.57

3.Brady 5.89

4.Henry 5.67

5.Grieves 8.41

6. an other 3.00

7. an other 3.00

Total 39.67

This doesn't take into account any possible reductions.Not that it would make much difference(0.36)

Just imagine you were Workington or Edinburgh,with their top two,almost half would go right away.

What it would do would make the heat leaders averages shoot way up due to easier rides,making it impossible for the out of work riders to come in as teams would be way over 40.

 

Try it with your own team and see what you come up with.It's a frightening thought.

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Excellent post DW....never thought to try and illustrate it that way.

 

Surely it just goes to show that no way should a points deduction be considered

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I wonder if anyone who wants this 40pt limit has actually thought about what it would mean team building wise.

Consider the season just finished.Glasgow finished 12th,we rode for the most part with two heat leaders.If we had a 40pt limit and wanted to use our own assets plus those who rode last season on loan to us this could be our team:

1.Stancl 9.13

2.Leverington 4.57

3.Brady 5.89

4.Henry 5.67

5.Grieves 8.41

6. an other 3.00

7. an other 3.00

Total 39.67

This doesn't take into account any possible reductions.Not that it would make much difference(0.36)

Just imagine you were Workington or Edinburgh,with their top two,almost half would go right away.

No I think that the top two would have to go in Edinburgh's case: :cry:

If you attempted to keep just Frede, Rory and Magnus the team would have to be stuffed with three-pointers.

 

This is the best I could come up with on 40 points using Edinburgh assets:

 

1 Rory Schlein 7.97

2 Derek Sneddon 4.88

3 Theo Pijper 6.61

4 Christian Henry 5.67

5 Magnus Karlsson 7.69

6 Matthew Wethers 3.78

7 New rider 3.00

Total 39.60

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