stevehone 3,427 Posted November 10, 2003 but if any league team tried to rename themselves(just look at the Wimbledon example), the fans would go mad. Even nicknames or team emblems are part of the team's history and have an important place in the psyche of the local community as a Wimbledon fan we gave up shouting a long time ago. they have moved to MK and within 2 years will be called MK. if you want the speedway equivalent... oh it just happens to be Wimbledon again, moved to Eastbourne mid-season as Wimbledon Dons. then became Eastbourne Dons, then Eastbourne Eagles again. the same will happen in football, so no differences really, it's just that there are more people to shout with football. History means nothing to businessmen running the clubs, whatever the sport. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hammer 10 Posted November 10, 2003 Dear Stevehone I have met a few Speedway promoters in the past and I have to say that you wouldn't trust them with an adult knife and fork. I presume it must be the same with whoever allowed Wimbledon F.C to get in to the state it has. Alot of people in charge of local teams have no idea of the history and place those teams have in the heart of the local working class men and women who look forward all week to cheering on the Dons, Hammers etc. Or if they do Know, then they don't give a monkey's..... Lots of love - Hammer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted November 10, 2003 Mind you, most Speedway fans would watch seven Chimps on tricycles if the promoter's tried it. What do you mean would? I've watched about 10 different chimps on bikes in the last few years at Newport! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest big al Posted November 11, 2003 Yes, you are right that football teams do change their strip regularly, but if any league team tried to rename themselves(just look at the Wimbledon example), the fans would go mad. Even nicknames or team emblems are part of the team's history and have an important place in the psyche of the local community. Hammer :roll: Whilst I agree with your sentiments to some extent, in practice it does not always hold water. For example, Bradford Northern rugby league side changed their nickname, much to the annoyance of traditionalists...and have never looked back since with crowds increasing by 3 or 4 times. They went for the Bulls as a name and created a whole new marketing image which they promoted vigorously with great results. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lioness 1,452 Posted November 11, 2003 Ooops! I missed that reply of Hammer's! Hammer, I am afraid I disagree with you on quoting Wimbledon as an example of a football team re-naming itself. This was not the case-Wimbledon HAVE renamed themselves AFC Wimbledon and are doing very nicely now in spite of all attempts made by money men to kill then off. They still have virtually all those who previously followed them and a few newcomers too. The club you refer to is Franchising at its very worst NOT a renaming...they still have the cheek to call themselves 'wimbledon' although they bear absolutely no resemblance to the club whose history they stole. Looking at the football side the nearest I can think of in recent terms is Inverness Caledonian Thistle who renamed AND merged to join the Scotish League. Many thought the fans would not support the new team but invariably they have as the product (in this case league football) was what they wanted to see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hammer 10 Posted December 25, 2003 (edited) Dear Lioness, you seem to be arguing with yourself. I used Wimbledon as an example of how ripping out a team identity, gives that team no credibility as a singular entity. Your hair splitting over how the backroom business was actually executed has nothing to do with my argument. Let's make this really easy and take Hackney as an example. Could you imagine a Football team being called the Hackney Hawks, then the Hackney Kestrels and then the London Lions all in recent times and all at the same location?. The identity completely gone, Hackney supporters confused about what they should do?. In the end Speedway just becomes a wall of death type spectacle with no loyalty to local history. And what's more, along with club credibility, the sport's credibility suffers as well. This is why most normal people see Speedway on the same level as banger racing or, god forbid, sidecar racing. lots of love- Hammer Edited December 25, 2003 by Hammer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trackman 3 Posted December 25, 2003 (On behalf of Trackman) Well at least it wasn't a swan PMSL! your not wrong SCB, never did like that swan ;O) Regards. PS. Merry Xmas! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sidecar121 0 Posted December 25, 2003 This is why most normal people see Speedway on the same level as banger racing or, god forbid, sidecar racing. Welcome back Hammer....Let you out for Christmas did they? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hammer 10 Posted December 25, 2003 Dear Mr Sidecar, They have let me out for the christmas period as long as I comply with my strict medication regime. On the other hand, surely this forum is for the development of one's understanding of speedway matters and not for commenting on the mental health of it's supporters. lots of love - Hammer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lioness 1,452 Posted December 26, 2003 Dear Lioness, you seem to be arguing with yourself. I used Wimbledon as an example of how ripping out a team identity, gives that team no credibility as a singular entity. Your hair splitting over how the backroom business was actually executed has nothing to do with my argument. Let's make this really easy and take Hackney as an example. Could you imagine a Football team being called the Hackney Hawks, then the Hackney Kestrels and then the London Lions all in recent times and all at the same location?. The identity completely gone, Hackney supporters confused about what they should do?. In the end Speedway just becomes a wall of death type spectacle with no loyalty to local history. And what's more, along with club credibility, the sport's credibility suffers as well. This is why most normal people see Speedway on the same level as banger racing or, god forbid, sidecar racing. lots of love- Hammer Must have been a good argument when it took you a month and a half to come back to it. You totally decided to miss the point-you previously and erroneously claimed the 'Wimbledon' playing in the football league had renamed themselves whereas it was the original Wimbledon who took that route calling themselves AFC Wimbledon. You may not think it had anything to do with your argument but as you were holding it up as an example-erroneously-then by definition your error was relevant. As for your Hackney Hawks example, what about Sunderland? Did their identity completely go when their nickname changed to the Black Cats? Or perhaps Airdrie? Or maybe Albion? if you are going to compare make sure your comparisons are relevant, thats the very relevant point I was making. Quite frankly I think speedways credability is jeopardised by far more important things than changing nicknames-you know little things like the lack of transparancy in the rule book. Never mind, you just go on about changing nicknames. Your constant cheap shots at sidecars doesn't do you any favours incidentally Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hammer 10 Posted December 26, 2003 Lioness - It took me that long as I had to consult a professor of encryption and arcane language to work out what the flip you are going on about. I think that Speedway promotion is too amateurish and transient, OXFORD SILVER MACHINE god help us. It would serve the sport better to have consistency, better presentation of meetings (not expensive- just better) more team identity, Swindon didn't even seem to have a Robin on their race jackets this year. If I was a Swindon fan I would have been most upset. Speedway is still run more as a sideshow than a sport, your perspective as a sidecar enthusiast is different to mine. If anyone wants to know how to do it, go and watch the Poole Pirates. Lots of love- Hammer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lioness 1,452 Posted December 26, 2003 yeah whatever Hammer... As everyone on here knows its speedway I follow and I dont exactly fit into the category of 'sidecar enthusiast'....I am just not as narrow minded and insular as your opinions appear to be. Never mind facts though eh? Still, I suppose its my language thats confusing you-if you find it so esoteric perhaps we could carry on a discussion in MY natural tongue instead of yours see how you get on? Incidentally it is not exactly 'clever' to critisise peoples typing/language etc on boards such as this-I suggest you try a language one if thats your thing. Oh and as you seem so keen to dig on other topics at people going 'off-topic' may I ask what your last post had to do withthe topic heading? See? We can all do it. Perhaps I should just do what is recommended for trolls and ignore you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hammer 10 Posted December 26, 2003 oooooooooooooooohhh - ark at you I wasn't commenting on your grammar,spelling,syntax language etc, I just meant that I did'nt understand the point you were making. You seem to bend over backwards to misunderstand what I post so that you can remonstrate with me. Of course if English is'nt your first language then I wouldn't get on as well with that as you, so what a childish point to make. You're right that i have gone off topic briefly, but that's because you sabotage the arguments that I put forward. Lots of love - Hammer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lioness 1,452 Posted December 26, 2003 You're right that i have gone off topic briefly, but that's because you sabotage the arguments that I put forward. You mean I pointed out they were wrong which made them spurious Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deano 1,318 Posted December 26, 2003 ooooo....I hear the sound of wedding bells.....Keep it up guys, makes great reading. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
