frigbo 518 Posted November 20, 2003 Guests are an absolute farce and should be scrapped completely. I think this 'half way house' rule could create all sorts of problems. A proper squad system needs to be in place before this kind of restriction can work. Guests can then be phased out. This rule for 2004 will see teams arriving with teams filled up with makeshift riders and some proper spankings dished out as a result. And there is a time and place for proper spankings...and speedway ain't it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rabbit 1 Posted November 20, 2003 (edited) I can see the arguments about covering when a team has a few riders out, we suffered as much as most this year in the middle of the season. But...if a team has a rider out with a longer-term injury I wonder whether the new gradings will make it easier for short-term replacements to be signed instead of relying on r/r. I know for fact that teams would often stick with guests and r/r because if they bring in a rider and the averages change, the original rider maybe can't get back into the team when fit again. Perhaps the gradings will help eradicate this problem - almost squads by a different name? If in place this year it may have meant we could have drafted in someone like Magnus to cover for say Bjarne when he was out injured without worrying about their averages (as long as they stayed within the grade bandings) instead of drifting along with r/r for 5 or 6 weeks. Additionally by having to use r/r and not guests, we'll get rid of rider x suddenly getting 'injured' or aggravating an injury in Sweden or Poland the day before they're due at a track they don't go so well at and lo and behold a guest is brought in who does better round that track... A tentative thumbs up to this change - anything has to be more credible than guests! Edited November 20, 2003 by rabbit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonyE 822 Posted November 20, 2003 Why this constant tinkering? New rules and regulations every season. If something has been shown not to work or to be unpopular, just remove it. Dreaming up something else with the potential to backfire badly does not seem to be the answer. Yes, guests are confusing to new supporters but what is the alternative? Squads could be the answer but are reliant on riders being willing to not always be in the team. It is quite common to have two riders out injured and if one of them is not your No.1 then heaven help you - R/R and a raw junior? Hardly adequate replacements for Heat Leaders 2 and 3. We will just have to wait and see how it all works out but I foresee tears before bedtime! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tony 0 Posted November 20, 2003 A tentative thumbs up to this change - anything has to be more credible than guests! My sentiments exactly. Any rule change bringing about less use of guests and more team stability has my support. However with just a guest facility for the no.1 and cover for reserves the potential for two of the remaining four team members to be out at the same time is immense. Why couldn't the reserve cover option be extended to cover grade c as well? Like my fellow AE fan and namesake I do despair at all the rule tinkering but, as I say, I think this one's a step in the right direction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robbo 0 Posted November 20, 2003 IMO,Air Fences should be brought in at every track now to stop riders getting injured!.Imangine having 6 riders injured like Kings Lynn did at the end of this season and just having 1 guest and 5 r/r not going tp work!. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Stranger 0 Posted November 20, 2003 Like most of you on here, I'm dying to know what the rule will be if you have three heat leaders and a second string missing Surely a team can't run with one guest, 1 second string, 2 reserves and RR for the other three riders Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philfromcov 326 Posted November 21, 2003 IMO,Air Fences should be brought in at every track now to stop riders getting injured!.Imangine having 6 riders injured like Kings Lynn did at the end of this season and just having 1 guest and 5 r/r not going tp work!. doesnt seem to have helped coventry much over the last couple of seasons! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shazzybird 10 Posted November 21, 2003 As already mentioned by someone else....... in other sports eg:- Football they don't have guest players they have players on contracts loaned out. In speedway they own riders contracts in this case, as I really don't understand the contract part does this mean that for instance Mark Loram contract owned by Exeter (for arguments sake) riding for Eastbourne if they have a long term injury can he be recalled back to ride @ Exeter as they "Own" him? or has he signed another contract with Eastbourne. God I've confused myself now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted November 21, 2003 I don't know why everyone likens our sport to say football. It doesn't have to be the same as the sport is different. A loan rider belongs to the team he has been loaned to for the speedway season and his owning club have no rights over the rider. In the case you mention, Mark Loram, he could not be pulled back to Exeter and also his average would not allow him to ride in the PL anyway. Its not like loan agreements in Football, doesnt have to be and works for both sides. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
21st century heathen 220 Posted November 22, 2003 Well I'm sorry to say I don't like this one either. I just can't see it working when injuries really kick in, which sadly they will. Either we are going to see teams struggle with half a team, can't wait to see how the GJ will work out then , or special dispensation will be unfairly handed out all over the place when they realise it doesn't work. I can't really see a squad system working over here. The riders want a team for the season not a match here or there. To use the example shazzy propossed (but using a Nikki as a guest), what if Max is injured for Wolves, so they recall Nikki. Who gets priority on his services if there's a clash of fixtures. He's a Wolves rider, but Eastie (for eg) have signed him for the season? What if Wolves are at Eastie? Obviously it looks like Wolves would be able to bring in PK instead...but that's a whole other issue!!! Perhaps that's the idea behing the grading system. To create a multiude of riders without a team, so they can be called in to guest? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lioness 1,446 Posted November 22, 2003 A slightly more debatable decision and I can see both sides of the argument. For my tuppence worth, I feel it is a step in the right direction but needs a bit more thought and tweaking. Perhaps there should be a similar sort of squad system as they appear to moving towards in the EL for the PL with x additional riders being used from the league below as part of a squad? Is there any provision for any team being hit with two long term injuries? As only the top average rider can be replaced by rider replacement, surely that will mean fewer guest appearances for the younger up and coming riders, less money for them and less opportunity to get extra experience to help them improve. The guys lying third/fourth in the averages could make good money out of it though! As I say I feel it is a step in the right direction but needs quite a bit of tweaking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted November 22, 2003 Lioness I think that there will be more effort to replace the second rider who is hurt for the period of the injury. This, of course, is done every season but I think it will have to be used more. In terms of a squad sytem, all the riders riding in Europe but not in the EL are really the squad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lioness 1,446 Posted November 22, 2003 Would that not have to be all unattached riders Tsunami? I take on board your point about there being more effort made to replace any rider other than the number one for the period of the injury. Perhaps this is a plus point as it could give an opportunity to a rider not yet able to get a club for the season for one reason or another? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted November 22, 2003 Lioness Problem would that the unattached rider may not be setup with equipment to resume racing. Would he be race fit ? He certainly could call the tune in terms of points money. Foreign riders would just slot in another race day for a short period and therefore it may be the best option. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lioness 1,446 Posted November 24, 2003 Again I see your point Tsunami. Maybe I should get a job with the BSPA as I didn't think it through properly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
