scribbler 213 Posted August 19, 2010 This is the same argument that Rye used for Tyson Nelson. If you have a look at the borders agency site then it explains it all there. A general visa (commonly referred to as a tourist visa) which lasts 6 months specifically states that you cannot be a 'sportsperson'. The BSPA really need to be checking these visas. Surely promoters should be required to photocopy visas and send emails/letters to the BSPA to prove the eligibility of their riders. Promoters should know what sort of visa their rider holds when signing them. I'm presuming that no promoter has questioned visas because they would presume that their fellow promoters were honest... There could be a lot of adjustments to be made - and a lot of meetings won or lost because of the illegal use of riders if what 21st Century Heahten says is true. The promoters really should be more careful because they could damage the career of a rider - being unable to ride in the UK - if laws are found to be broken. Yet another reason for a 'Brits only' in the National Development League... IMHO... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philcrumpisgod 18 Posted August 19, 2010 Flippin' 'eck, I didn't realise that a little question about Mark's possible return date would open (re-open) such a can of worms on here It seems obvious that there are some people on here, because of experience perhaps, that know more than others about this complex (or is it simple?) subject and it's interesting to read their views. But if they, perhaps Jayne, know their stuff and believe themselves to be correct, what is going on? How about the authorities get to grips with it and sort things out properly? Let's have legal teams and riders competing here legally from the off rather than riders and clubs losing points retrospectively off the track. Shouldn't be too difficult should it? Can you imagine a situation whereby after Mark returns to Oz, it is declared that he was racing for the Hornets illegally all season and all of his race points are deducted from all of the matches he rode in and all the results were changed to reflect that. What a farce that would be and little wonder our great sport is ridiculed as a laughing stock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFatDave 258 Posted August 19, 2010 Flippin' 'eck, I didn't realise that a little question about Mark's possible return date would open (re-open) such a can of worms on here With all due respect, Phil, that's Bulldust, mate. You've been on here long enough to know that you don't have to do much to stir up the 'Little Englanders' who infest this forum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scribbler 213 Posted August 19, 2010 Flippin' 'eck, I didn't realise that a little question about Mark's possible return date would open (re-open) such a can of worms on here How about the authorities get to grips with it and sort things out properly? Let's have legal teams and riders competing here legally from the off rather than riders and clubs losing points retrospectively off the track. Shouldn't be too difficult should it? Can you imagine a situation whereby after Mark returns to Oz, it is declared that he was racing for the Hornets illegally all season and all of his race points are deducted from all of the matches he rode in and all the results were changed to reflect that. What a farce that would be and little wonder our great sport is ridiculed as a laughing stock. Blame it on greedy promoters who will do anything to have a winning team... and the BSPA who do not govern - but just rely on the honesty of promoters. The supporters are innocent in all this... we trust our promoters to be honest... I'd rather my team be bottom of the League honestly - than higher than that by using (known to the promotion) illegal riders. It is the BSPA and some promoters who are bringing the sport into disrepute... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scribbler 213 Posted August 19, 2010 With all due respect, Phil, that's Bulldust, mate. You've been on here long enough to know that you don't have to do much to stir up the 'Little Englanders' who infest this forum. No...Honest law-abiding supporters who do not like to see British laws broken. If they'd come over on the correct visas we couldn't comment... And by breaking these British laws the riders might never be able to ride in Britain again - because they have been helped by promoters to break the laws of the land. I actually feel sorry for these very young riders who probably would not know the consequences of their actions - unless told by the promotions so eager to use them... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philcrumpisgod 18 Posted August 19, 2010 With all due respect, Phil, that's Bulldust, mate. You've been on here long enough to know that you don't have to do much to stir up the 'Little Englanders' who infest this forum. Cheers Dave, just been chuckling over your dinner roll joke and end up getting a rebuke from one of Newport's finest Never meant to stir up a Hornet's nest, no pun intended, just a query about how long we might still have Mark tearing up the tracks for us? There's certainly no little Englander in me over this subject, I've long held an affinity with Aussies over here and especially those riding for Newport ever since the Mildura Marvel was doing his thing in the black and amber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFatDave 258 Posted August 19, 2010 Cheers Dave, just been chuckling over your dinner roll joke and end up getting a rebuke from one of Newport's finest Never meant to stir up a Hornet's nest, no pun intended, just a query about how long we might still have Mark tearing up the tracks for us? There's certainly no little Englander in me over this subject, I've long held an affinity with Aussies over here and especially those riding for Newport ever since the Mildura Marvel was doing his thing in the black and amber Trouble is, Phil, you stuck it on here and now they crawl out of the woodwork, taking conjecture as fact and over-exaggerating everything from there onwards. Maybe in hindsight it was a question that should have been asked in the Clubhouse/bar after a match; that way if it happened there it would stay there. Glad you liked the bread roll joke: its a ripper!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greyhoundp 990 Posted August 19, 2010 BFD, i am by NO means a little englander, as YOU well know we have two Aussies in our Team at Dudley. My G/f just happens to be Chinese, she is here on a 5 year work permit, then she will apply for her permanent stay early next year, yes we could have taken the easy way, and got another type of licence <vows and all that> but she chooses not to. If Mark is on a Tourist visa he should NOT be riding, and it may well affect his future when it comes to applying for a future visa, Mark is no different to any other person when it comes to "Border Agency" regs, so NO i have not come out of the woodwork, i am not by ANY means a little englander, I just like to see, a level playing field for everyone, but once again the BSPA shows some degree of ineptitude in all of this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scribbler 213 Posted August 19, 2010 There's certainly no little Englander in me over this subject, I've long held an affinity with Aussies over here Me too - I'm still in contact with the widow of Gordon Guasco(GG)40 years after his death - on a Speedway bike, riding in Australia. He was an Australian who used to ride for Poole Pirates (and other teams) and was my next door neighbour when he rode for them. Being critical of the way rules are being manipulated makes me a speedway supporter... not a Little Englander... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFatDave 258 Posted August 19, 2010 (edited) BFD, i am by NO means a little englander, as YOU well know we have two Aussies in our Team at Dudley. My G/f just happens to be Chinese, she is here on a 5 year work permit, then she will apply for her permanent stay early next year, yes we could have taken the easy way, and got another type of licence <vows and all that> but she chooses not to. If Mark is on a Tourist visa he should NOT be riding, and it may well affect his future when it comes to applying for a future visa, Mark is no different to any other person when it comes to "Border Agency" regs, so NO i have not come out of the woodwork, i am not by ANY means a little englander, I just like to see, a level playing field for everyone, but once again the BSPA shows some degree of ineptitude in all of this. Both Nick and Robert are riding on British passports, as YOU should well know. PS Did you like the Bread Roll joke? Edited August 19, 2010 by BigFatDave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr S Bear 10 Posted August 19, 2010 If riders are riding in Britain on Visas which do not allow them to work how does this affect any insurance they may have. If they were seriously injured or worse killed would the insurance company claim that insurance was not valid as rider was breaking the law. How would the riders employer, ie his promoter, stand as he has employed an illegal worker. Could he also face charges, fines or even jail.? Will the BSPA or SCB clear up the situation or will it he swept under the carpet with all the other difficult stuff, such as riders contracts and the Bosman ruling, - I am surprised they can open any doors at ACU HQ at Wood Street Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diesel 26 Posted August 19, 2010 Mildenhall folded - Tim Webster lost his place at Newport to a Mildenhall rider. When Mark Jones goes back home Tim Webster will (possibly/probably) get a place back in the Newport team. It's the overlap between Mildenhall folding and Mark Jones going home that has meant that Tim Webster has lost his team place. If it was really not the fault of Mark Jones being in the team why wasn't he (Mark) sidelined (because he is going home) rather than Tim Webster??? You cannot blame Mark Jones for the Mildenhall promoter acting like an arsehole. Fact of the matter is Mark Jones, Tim Webster and Luke Priest all had places at the start of the season, a team of British riders were put out of work by a British promoter and the current merrygoround ensued. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scribbler 213 Posted August 19, 2010 Why can't I blame Newport promotion - and Mark Jones - if Newport are found to have been using a rider illegally? Mildenhall folding has nothing to do with the use of a (possible) illegal rider... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFatDave 258 Posted August 19, 2010 Why can't I blame Newport promotion - and Mark Jones - if Newport are found to have been using a rider illegally? Mildenhall folding has nothing to do with the use of a (possible) illegal rider... Are you alleging that Newport (or any other promotion, for that matter) have been tracking an illegal rider? 'Put up or shut up' springs to mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pinny 2,536 Posted August 20, 2010 Did Tregoning not go home last year quite early due to his visa? I honestly can't see the BSPA allowing Jones to virtually complete a season illegially... not just a cock up on Newports behalf if true but an even bigger one by the sports governing body. The argument regarding Webster and Priest is nothing to do with this thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
