Team Building For 2011

[bruno 1,790]

can anyone give a few pointers to team building for next year.im under the impression we will lose lee smart cuz of his average but last year he averaged 9.45 and was allowed back.also,is it right aussies are only allowed the one year at nl level.therefore do we lose jake andersen and micky dyer.any info on any rules would be useful.thanks ;)just thought what about age restrictions.thanks again

Edited September 15, 2010 by bruno

[RHayes 72]

Bruno, aussies are allowed a maximum of 2 years in the NL. If Micky Dyer goes PL then he can't ride in the NL because his average in the PL would be 5.00. You can only ride in both leagues when at the start of the season your PL average is 4.00 or less or when your PL average becomes the 4.00 or less during the season. I don't think there age restrictions but i'm sure Jayne carry clarify this for us.

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

Very interesting question, this.

 

I have spoken in the last few weeks to two current NL team managers and one former manager on this particular subject.

 

Two have advocated a cut in the points limit, one rather draconian (36) the other not quite so (around 38). The third wondered where the bottom end riders are going to come from to make up the places of the top liners who will be forced out, and I think he's got a point as there are just 5 riders in the U15 championship this season.

 

I do hope that restrictions are placed on Australians (with patriality or without) and that we see the kind of compromise between the stand alone and double up clubs most sensibly and reasonably suggested by one of the above three gentlemen, not one promoter selfishly and arrogantly demanding his own way at the expense and to the detriment of the majority of the rest of the teams. The NL can't survive without that. My other hope would be for the creation of an NL side jointly funded by our northern most clubs and sharing track facilities there.

 

I also hope that all the teams will be back in again and am optimistic that Mildenhall will return. The biggest question marks to my knowledge are over Plymouth (who may go PL) and Bournemouth.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Halifaxtiger

[TonyOfBrum 16]

Dont rule out the Brummies dropping down, especially if we continue to have p### poor crowds like last night. :mad:

 

Last week you were telling everyone how wonderful and fantastic and successful the Make Me A Fan initiative has been.

 

One poor crowd for an INDIVIDUAL meeting on a cold, wet night does not mean we are going to drop down a league. Although if we did, I am sure you would still be here, predicting rain-offs and defeats every week.

 

Anyway, back on topic…

[Ben91 1,743]

Bruno you will probably lose Lee Smart but due to his PL average being over 4 rather than his NL average. I think a points limit cut is a good idea tbh. There are plenty of riders without teams floating around who could ride NL not just those in the Under-15's championship. Lower the points limit and bring through more young Brits, simples.

[21st century heathen 220]

There could be changes to the rules for 2011 so we can only say how things stand for 2010.

 

Bruno, aussies are allowed a maximum of 2 years in the NL. If Micky Dyer goes PL then he can't ride in the NL because his average in the PL would be 5.00. You can only ride in both leagues when at the start of the season your PL average is 4.00 or less or when your PL average becomes the 4.00 or less during the season. I don't think there age restrictions but i'm sure Jayne carry clarify this for us.

 

 

Two successive seasons is correct for any Commonwealth rider. So Micky and Jake could ride for the Heathens again next season. Also, I'm not sure about his average. He won't complete 6H and 6A for the Heathens so he will not get a new NL average. Therefore he remains on his assessed 6.00. A rider moving up from the NL to PL apparently has an average of 3.00 (see below) for the new PL club but I'm not sure if this only applies to riders that have gained a NL average. As Micky would still be on an assessed NL average would that mean he would join a PL team (if he went PL full time) on a PL assessed average of 5.00 as a new Commonwealth rider?

 

17.3.3 For Riders transferring between Leagues, when a conversion is necessary, the factor shall be: from EL to PL or PL to NL (x2 of the actual CMA), from PL to EL (50% of the current CMA), subject to the minimum / maximum converted CMA's being 3.00 / 12.00 and from the NL to the PL it shall be 3.00.

 

Additionally, see below for further information on Commonwealth riders. Micky and Jake can only ride NL for the Heathens next season.

 

The rules actually state a PL rider must have a PL average of less that 4.00. Smart is averaging 5.87 for Stoke so would not be eligible to ride NL next season.

 

I think riders have to be 15 to ride in the NL and 16 (definitely) for the PL and EL.

 

Two have advocated a cut in the points limit, one rather draconian (36) the other not quite so (around 38). The third wondered where the bottom end riders are going to come from to make up the places of the top liners who will be forced out, and I think he's got a point as there are just 5 riders in the U15 championship this season.

 

I do hope that restrictions are placed on Australians (with patriality or without)...

 

I also hope that all the teams will be back in again and am optimistic that Mildenhall will return. The biggest question marks to my knowledge are over Plymouth (who may go PL) and Bournemouth.

 

Nooooooooooooo have they learnt nothing from the mess the EL is in from dropping the points limit so low a couple of years ago and the inflated averages that average riders have now?!! I could live with trimming it a fraction to 42 if absolutely necessary. But even then that could prove low and force riders out of the league. If Mildenhall do not return and Bournemouth are lost (strong hint by Matt Ford in his programme notes that were written about the Heathens' support down there a few weeks ago) then there will be riders on the market with nowhere to go.

 

Commonwealth riders are already limited to two per team.

 

17.4.7.6 Commonwealth Riders as permitted (see SR 17.3.2.2), subject to a maximum of 2 per club are limited to ride for a maximum of 2 consecutive seasons which must be with that same club. They cannot ride for an EL/PL Team under any circumstances, even as a Guest.

[RHayes 72]

There could be changes to the rules for 2011 so we can only say how things stand for 2010.

 

 

 

 

Two successive seasons is correct for any Commonwealth rider. So Micky and Jake could ride for the Heathens again next season. Also, I'm not sure about his average. He won't complete 6H and 6A for the Heathens so he will not get a new NL average. Therefore he remains on his assessed 6.00. A rider moving up from the NL to PL apparently has an average of 3.00 (see below) for the new PL club but I'm not sure if this only applies to riders that have gained a NL average. As Micky would still be on an assessed NL average would that mean he would join a PL team (if he went PL full time) on a PL assessed average of 5.00 as a new Commonwealth rider?

 

17.3.3 For Riders transferring between Leagues, when a conversion is necessary, the factor shall be: from EL to PL or PL to NL (x2 of the actual CMA), from PL to EL (50% of the current CMA), subject to the minimum / maximum converted CMA's being 3.00 / 12.00 and from the NL to the PL it shall be 3.00.

 

Additionally, see below for further information on Commonwealth riders. Micky and Jake can only ride NL for the Heathens next season.

 

The rules actually state a PL rider must have a PL average of less that 4.00. Smart is averaging 5.87 for Stoke so would not be eligible to ride NL next season.

 

I think riders have to be 15 to ride in the NL and 16 (definitely) for the PL and EL.

 

 

 

Nooooooooooooo have they learnt nothing from the mess the EL is in from dropping the points limit so low a couple of years ago and the inflated averages that average riders have now?!! I could live with trimming it a fraction to 42 if absolutely necessary. But even then that could prove low and force riders out of the league. If Mildenhall do not return and Bournemouth are lost (strong hint by Matt Ford in his programme notes that were written about the Heathens' support down there a few weeks ago) then there will be riders on the market with nowhere to go.

 

Commonwealth riders are already limited to two per team.

 

17.4.7.6 Commonwealth Riders as permitted (see SR 17.3.2.2), subject to a maximum of 2 per club are limited to ride for a maximum of 2 consecutive seasons which must be with that same club. They cannot ride for an EL/PL Team under any circumstances, even as a Guest.

 

 

 

21st, Micky would come in a 5.00 PL average due to being a commonwealth rider, which is a bit ridiculous as all riders from the NL should come into the PL on half their NL average unless they already have a PL average.

[21st century heathen 220]

17.3.3 as quote above does not make that distinction although it does say "where a conversion is necessary". I assume then that if he retains his assessed NL average it is not eligible to be converted and therefore he can only have an assessed PL average?

 

So with that in mind his best bet is to do his second permissible season in the NL, gain a true NL average and then go PL in 2012. He'll be on to a winner as he'll go PL on a lower converted average 2012 than he will assessed in 2011. I think going PL on 5.00 in 2011 is a bit early for him anyway. He's going well and is quick and stylish when he makes clean starts but he's still learning to navigate traffic from the back, something he would need to get used to in the PL as the riders are sharper away from the start.

 

In my opinion Anderson needs a second year NL too. He's grabbed some important double figure scores for us at times but is pretty uncomfortable at Monmore and I suspect other smaller tracks. He'll chewed up and spat out and places like Edinburgh for example.

 

That's getting into the realms of who the Heathens used next season if we are able to continue though, so back to the rules for the NL.

[Swift Saint 186]

Bruno you will probably lose Lee Smart but due to his PL average being over 4 rather than his NL average. I think a points limit cut is a good idea tbh. There are plenty of riders without teams floating around who could ride NL not just those in the Under-15's championship. Lower the points limit and bring through more young Brits, simples.

 

 

Well Ben you and I do not always see eye to eye on many issues but this time we are in total agreement.

 

Had the points limit been lower last season then we would perhaps not have lost a club through running out of money and there would have been more quality between the teams.

 

Several Promoters have expressed doubts to me about running next season with anything near to the present points limit.

 

Malcolm Vasey

[Diesel 26]

17.3.3 as quote above does not make that distinction although it does say "where a conversion is necessary". I assume then that if he retains his assessed NL average it is not eligible to be converted and therefore he can only have an assessed PL average?

 

So with that in mind his best bet is to do his second permissible season in the NL, gain a true NL average and then go PL in 2012. He'll be on to a winner as he'll go PL on a lower converted average 2012 than he will assessed in 2011. I think going PL on 5.00 in 2011 is a bit early for him anyway.

You are wrong with regards to Dyer. Unless rules change he will go into the Premier League on a 5 point average regardless of whether he has attained a real NL average. This was the case with Grant Tregoning who was set to join Newport's PL side on a 5 despite posting a 6.xx NL average the previous season (obviously that was before the promotion decided to go with Alex Davies instead).

[boston five 16]

i have been told there might not be any aussie,s allowed in n/l next year what would happen if they held a british passport

[greyhoundp 990]

To my mind, not only is a points limit required, but also an age limit on how many riders per team over 25, IMO this should be only one rider per team who is over 25, some may say tough, but this is primarily a development league, alongside this i would allow only 1 Commonwealth rider per team, and yes there should be a lower points limit perhaps 40, but i would think less than that would be to drastic.

[21st century heathen 220]

You are wrong with regards to Dyer. Unless rules change he will go into the Premier League on a 5 point average regardless of whether he has attained a real NL average. This was the case with Grant Tregoning who was set to join Newport's PL side on a 5 despite posting a 6.xx NL average the previous season (obviously that was before the promotion decided to go with Alex Davies instead).

 

 

So what does the bit in rule 17.3.3 mean then when it says NL to PL shall be 3.00? Genuine question mate.

 

i have been told there might not be any aussie,s allowed in n/l next year what would happen if they held a british passport

 

Unless the rules also stated no duel citizenship then any rider with a British passport should be okay.

 

To my mind, not only is a points limit required, but also an age limit on how many riders per team over 25, IMO this should be only one rider per team who is over 25, some may say tough, but this is primarily a development league...

 

 

That may prove counter productive in a sense. The experienced riders such as Armstrong can pass on a lot of info to the young lads.

 

 

 

[waco 1,026]

i have been told there might not be any aussie,s allowed in n/l next year what would happen if they held a british passport

I have also heard that no aussies allowed in the national league next year..? Perhaps Malcolm or Jane can tell us the situation ..? I would also advocate a reduction in the points limit.....To many british lads have lost team places to big hitters of obvious premier league standard this season..

Edited September 16, 2010 by waco

[montie 1,273]

I have also heard that no aussies allowed in the national league next year..?

 

i thing maybe the reason for this is,if i have read the stuff correct,with the current work permits/visa`s that are about these days,thay shouldnt be in it this year

 

Maybe the boarders agency will make the decision for the BSPA or SCB for them