Stoke Potters

[Baldy 69]

I thought Dave wants a complete English set-up; that's the impression I got from reading the local press. If so, then no room for any Aussies etc. Have I got the wrong end of the stick?.

[CrystalCastles 292]

I thought Dave wants a complete English set-up; that's the impression I got from reading the local press. If so, then no room for any Aussies etc. Have I got the wrong end of the stick?.

 

Just my opinion but if its about building for the future and with the aim of getting back into the PL. Stoke need to sign the best riders they can that are available.

Also as has been pointed out Stoke need to have a succesful season next year, and getting a rider like Compton as well as a couple of young Aussies would be a good way of not only being succesful but attracting supporters back. Taylor was great last year, and there are quite a few Aussies who are not far behind in terms of ability that have been mentioned by Vog & a few others that would be worth taking.

[speedy bill 154]

I would like to see young Aussies and New Zealanders allowed in the National League,say two only per team.In the Elite and Premire i think no more than three foreign riders per team. Aussies and New Zealanders were ok in the sixtys when we could not field a good England side Mauger,Briggs, and Moore,all rode and we called it Great Britain.Do you think one of the reasons people dont come to speedway now is because the riders get moved around to much.ITdoes happen to often in todays speeway people canot get to know the riders before they are moved to another team.Look how long riders stayed with team in years gone by today the stupid points limit and average stop riders from getting any continulty with a team.

[roguetrader 51]

The British National League is for the development of British riders. There are enough British riders around and a lot more to be discovered just like Scunthorpe have proved. I do not support any Commonwealth riders in the National League.

[vog 200]

The British National League is for the development of British riders. There are enough British riders around and a lot more to be discovered just like Scunthorpe have proved. I do not support any Commonwealth riders in the National League.

 

Are there enough British riders around? Assume that every team who rode last year rides this year, with Stoke replacing Plymouth. The league has already lost Mark Simmonds and Nicki Glanz, so that's 2 heat leaders gone, and I can't see Seemond Stephens riding again. Where are the top end riders going to come from?

 

Personally, as narrow minded as it may sound, I'm not too interested with bringing forward the next generation of riders. In an ideal world, Stoke are only going to be NL for one season, so we need riders who will, hopefully, be able to step up the next season. From what I saw of Armstrong, I feel he could be a rider capable of doing that.

 

Another point, on a slight tangent, is why do we not allow foreign riders into the NL? Make it mandatory to have x amount of British riders, 2 of whom must be under 19, and work from there? Too often our younger riders are protected up until they attempt to make the step up, only ever facing people who have a knowledge of British speedway, and then they hit the PL, with a whole new level of professionalism that is brought about from having a multi-national league, and it appears from the outside to be a huge culture shock for them.

[montie 1,273]

Are there enough British riders around? Assume that every team who rode last year rides this year, with Stoke replacing Plymouth. The league has already lost Mark Simmonds and Nicki Glanz, so that's 2 heat leaders gone, and I can't see Seemond Stephens riding again. Where are the top end riders going to come from?

 

Personally, as narrow minded as it may sound, I'm not too interested with bringing forward the next generation of riders. In an ideal world, Stoke are only going to be NL for one season, so we need riders who will, hopefully, be able to step up the next season. From what I saw of Armstrong, I feel he could be a rider capable of doing that.

 

Another point, on a slight tangent, is why do we not allow foreign riders into the NL? Make it mandatory to have x amount of British riders, 2 of whom must be under 19, and work from there? Too often our younger riders are protected up until they attempt to make the step up, only ever facing people who have a knowledge of British speedway, and then they hit the PL, with a whole new level of professionalism that is brought about from having a multi-national league, and it appears from the outside to be a huge culture shock for them.

 

If i have read the Boarders Agency correct it impossible to have Aussies in the NL due to the work permit thing,i dont the think the SCB or BSPA can do much about it,hence when questions are asked about certain chappies in the NL last year, folk go quiet,as clearly they shouldnt have been riding,the rye house use of Tyson Nelson confirms it,

 

The lads with british passports can tho as again it BA rules not BSPA/SCB,if i have read it correct it would be against the rules to stop them

 

This is only as i have read the rules but i could be wrong but it seem fairly clear

[Islander15 1,062]

Are there enough British riders around? Assume that every team who rode last year rides this year, with Stoke replacing Plymouth. The league has already lost Mark Simmonds and Nicki Glanz, so that's 2 heat leaders gone, and I can't see Seemond Stephens riding again. Where are the top end riders going to come from?

 

Personally, as narrow minded as it may sound, I'm not too interested with bringing forward the next generation of riders. In an ideal world, Stoke are only going to be NL for one season, so we need riders who will, hopefully, be able to step up the next season. From what I saw of Armstrong, I feel he could be a rider capable of doing that.

 

Another point, on a slight tangent, is why do we not allow foreign riders into the NL? Make it mandatory to have x amount of British riders, 2 of whom must be under 19, and work from there? Too often our younger riders are protected up until they attempt to make the step up, only ever facing people who have a knowledge of British speedway, and then they hit the PL, with a whole new level of professionalism that is brought about from having a multi-national league, and it appears from the outside to be a huge culture shock for them.

 

 

Yes, it does sound very narrow minded! IOW originally stepped down for 1 year, 2 at most and now they enter their 3rd year in the NL and it seems unlikely that thye finances will let them step up for another 2-3 years at least. Any anyway even if Stoke do return next year, you might possibly find one guy this year to move up with you next year, but more than likely 5 or 6 of them, if not all 7 will be or have ridden Premier some time (whether it be for Stoke or not). And who knows, there may even be an unkown junior start at No. 7 next year who in several years time (alright, qquite a long time) rides at No. 1 for a Stoke EL title-winning side

Edited January 11, 2011 by Islander15

[vog 200]

Yes, it does sound very narrow minded! IOW originally stepped down for 1 year, 2 at most and now they enter their 3rd year in the NL and it seems unlikely that thye finances will let them step up for another 2-3 years at least. Any anyway even if Stoke do return next year, you might possibly find one guy this year to move up with you next year, but more than likely 5 or 6 of them, if not all 7 will be or have ridden Premier some time (whether it be for Stoke or not). And who knows, there may even be an unkown junior start at No. 7 next year who in several years time (alright, qquite a long time) rides at No. 1 for a Stoke EL title-winning side

 

I thought that IoW's problem was that the crowds at the early and late part of the season weren't enough to run, even given the higher crowds during the summer months, and that the NL was a more viable option because of the lack of meetings at the extremes of the season.

 

As for finding someone to move up with us, great, but I worry about us having the time to develop riders over 2 to 3 seasons. This is arguably one of the most important seasons in the recent history of Stoke Speedway. If we get this wrong, I can see the crowds dropping dramatically.

[21st century heathen 220]

This is a bit random but as I was sat here doing nothing much at lunch time I decided to have a quick look through this thread. Now admittedly I have speed-read it so apologies in advance if I've missed something but a point for Vog. Compton on 12 would be stupid as he's only going to drop his average, and the chances are there will be more teams and a lower points limit this season meaning a weak bottom end would be nailed-on. However, I do think a bit of experience in the team to help the young lads is a smart move. I believe it helped our lads to the top of the table last season. If you've got riders like Burrows and Felton on the books then use them. They have more experience and will fill holes in the team that would need to be plugged anyway, namely 5-7 pointers. And of course you wouldn't have to pay out a huge loan fee, as would surely be the case with someone like Compton, so that fulfils another important factor. I would use Evans while I was at it as, for exactly the same reasons. Those three would be a good start to team building and then try to get some 'kids' in and around them with a view to the future Is Priest yours? Just my humble opinion of course mate.

[vog 200]

This is a bit random but as I was sat here doing nothing much at lunch time I decided to have a quick look through this thread. Now admittedly I have speed-read it so apologies in advance if I've missed something but a point for Vog. Compton on 12 would be stupid as he's only going to drop his average, and the chances are there will be more teams and a lower points limit this season meaning a weak bottom end would be nailed-on. However, I do think a bit of experience in the team to help the young lads is a smart move. I believe it helped our lads to the top of the table last season. If you've got riders like Burrows and Felton on the books then use them. They have more experience and will fill holes in the team that would need to be plugged anyway, namely 5-7 pointers. And of course you wouldn't have to pay out a huge loan fee, as would surely be the case with someone like Compton, so that fulfils another important factor. I would use Evans while I was at it as, for exactly the same reasons. Those three would be a good start to team building and then try to get some 'kids' in and around them with a view to the future Is Priest yours? Just my humble opinion of course mate.

 

I noted that Compton was on a 12, it was just a name that would have fitted the bill had it not been for his average. The problem Stoke have is that when we were in the NL last time, it was awful. Unprofessionally run, same old faces year in year out, and very little in the way of young riders coming through. More fans want a break away from those days, so by using the same names, although numerous years on, it is still a link to that awful past.

 

Evans is possibly the only Stoke asset that I wouldn't mind riding for us, as I think he would do a very solid job as a second heat leader. As for Priest, I think he is still a Sheffield asset.

[21st century heathen 220]

So do you think that in the first season dropping back down the club should risk splashing out of a team full of, except one if Evans were used, loanees? If there is some uncertainty about how the fans will react to the drop down, and of course in particular how it will affect attendances (and given the current economic climate), is this not an unnecessary risk? I know what you mean but you will need 5/7 pointers and you will need, in both of our opinion, older riders to pass in experience and you already have that on your books. I know the cost of bringing loan riders in will be offset if you can loan riders out but I would expect it to cost significantly more than you save if you bring 6 in and loan 2 out. Let me put this another way - realistically speaking, rather than riders that are all-but nailed on elsewhere, who would you bring in?

 

Must be a chance of using Priest then? Rough averages rounded to nearest whole number...

 

Evans - 8

Burrows - 7

Priest - 6

Felton - 5

 

looks like a perfectly good start to team building to me. A couple of last seasons high-flyers will be missing from the NL this coming season which is also a consideration when your looking at top end strength. It will probably leave something like 15 points for the other 3.

[vog 200]

So do you think that in the first season dropping back down the club should risk splashing out of a team full of, except one if Evans were used, loanees? If there is some uncertainty about how the fans will react to the drop down, and of course in particular how it will affect attendances (and given the current economic climate), is this not an unnecessary risk? I know what you mean but you will need 5/7 pointers and you will need, in both of our opinion, older riders to pass in experience and you already have that on your books. I know the cost of bringing loan riders in will be offset if you can loan riders out but I would expect it to cost significantly more than you save if you bring 6 in and loan 2 out. Let me put this another way - realistically speaking, rather than riders that are all-but nailed on elsewhere, who would you bring in?

 

Must be a chance of using Priest then? Rough averages rounded to nearest whole number...

 

Evans - 8

Burrows - 7

Priest - 6

Felton - 5

 

looks like a perfectly good start to team building to me. A couple of last seasons high-flyers will be missing from the NL this coming season which is also a consideration when your looking at top end strength. It will probably leave something like 15 points for the other 3.

 

Again, the problem is, Stoke fans can be quite fickle. It looks a solid start to team building, but realistically, none of those riders will be productive in years going forward. I will be honest, I have no idea what the points limit will look like, or what it was last season, but this time around for Stoke it needs to be fresh faces. There isn't going to be the huge loan fees involved in the PL, or the larger wages involved, so both of those will reduce our running costs, and on the crowds we have, if they stay at a reasonable level, we should be able to put a team that is both competitive and captures the fans imagination. The worst thing Tattum can do, I think, is go with all the old assets, as the fans will leave.

[Islander15 1,062]

I thought that IoW's problem was that the crowds at the early and late part of the season weren't enough to run, even given the higher crowds during the summer months, and that the NL was a more viable option because of the lack of meetings at the extremes of the season.

 

As for finding someone to move up with us, great, but I worry about us having the time to develop riders over 2 to 3 seasons. This is arguably one of the most important seasons in the recent history of Stoke Speedway. If we get this wrong, I can see the crowds dropping dramatically.

 

I read in this weeks speedway star that Dave Tattum says he has a three-year-plan to move the Potters back into the Premier, surely some juniors could move upo in that time scale. Plus look at last year's Scunny Saints: Ashley Birks is now with Sheffield after 1 NL season, Steve Worrall is with the Scorpions (and he rode for them at the back end of last year) and Richie Worrall is with Newcastle despite only making his debut June time. I'm just saying it's not impossible for first timers to go NL in their 2nd year, or even 1st(Craig Cook))

 

Btw in the last couple of comments between you and 21stCH you mention Compton on a 12. Well if you mean Benji (surely Andre's average is too high) then 2 things: 1. I tought he announced his retirement last year and 2. if he rides he'll have a 6.28 average (well that's what he had for 2010 Scunny Saints)

Edited January 13, 2011 by Islander15

[vog 200]

One of the problems was the drop in crowds outside of the holiday season, but that was only a contributing factor as to why they went down. It simply became a loss of money but that was because lots was being wasted on needless and, quite frankly, stupid things. Though after some of those people leaving during 2010 the future looks better, but the club still ows a lot of money.

 

Anyway this is a Stoke thread I read in this weeks speedway star that Dave Tattum says he has a three-year-plan to move the Potters back into the Premier, surely some juniors could move upo in that time scale. Plus look at last year's Scunny Saints: Ashley Birks is now with Sheffield after 1 NL season, Steve Worrall is with the Scorpions (and he rode for them at the back end of last year) and Richie Worrall is with Newcastle despite only making his debut June time. I'm just saying it's not impossible for first timers to go NL in their 2nd year, or even 1st(Craig Cook))

 

Btw in the last couple of comments between you and 21stCH you mention Compton on a 12. Well if you mean Benji (surely Andre's average is too high) then 2 things: 1. I tought he announced his retirement last year and 2. if he rides he'll have a 6.28 average (well that's what he had for 2010 Scunny Saints)

 

Alas, only Dave knows what he will want to do (And possibly Malcolm), I just hope we can build a team that will challenge at the top.

 

And know, I meant Andre. His PL average this season was 5.97, so could, in theory, drop down on 11.94!

[Islander15 1,062]

Alas, only Dave knows what he will want to do (And possibly Malcolm), I just hope we can build a team that will challenge at the top.

 

And know, I meant Andre. His PL average this season was 5.97, so could, in theory, drop down on 11.94!

 

I don't want to sound against you or anything here, but assuming the rules don't change Andre's average would be too high for him to do both leagues, as you can only ride NL if you're average with a PL team is below 4.00 at the start of the season. Think of Charles Wright at Buxton last year. He could start the season for the Hitmen because he didn't have a PL side, but then when he signed for Redcar he did have a PL team and an average over 4.00 (4.75 as it happened), so he had to be replaced in the Buxton side. So unless he only does NL, he can't ride in that league and to be perfectly honest he's a lot better than that league anyway. Admittedly he wouldn't keep his 12, but should be above 9.5 if not 10. Its his decision at the end of the day, but even if he struggles at the start of the season in the PL (assuming that's what he wants and/or is signed), he would be some force at reserve