no-brakes-uk 76 Posted December 28, 2010 (edited) Are you turning into the Aces version of Steve Shovlar ? I certainly hope not. You must be one of very few who really believe KL just chose to join the elite league . If you look back at he statements from KL in the weeks previous to this affair starting, and then the timing of their announcement it's fairly obvious what occured . Well to most of us it is. It was very odd, but equally odd was Birmingham who parted company with Drury due to costs, then in a matter of weeks he was back on board and they decided to go into a more expensive league. Edited December 28, 2010 by no-brakes-uk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Shovlar 10,439 Posted December 28, 2010 (edited) No, that isn't a fact, it is an assumption based on your view of the fact that KL decided to move up. Most people might think that a share of the TV money together with the explanation put forward by KL is the reason. Watch it Aces51, they will be on to you for daring to speak out a bit of truth. They are like a pack of Wolves on here and anything that might be too close to the truth gets rubbished by the usual blind fools. End of the day both KL and Birmingham moved up through their own free will, completely stuffing up and wrecking Coventry and Peterboroughs bully boy tactics. Well done to both clubs. Edited December 28, 2010 by Steve Shovlar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Druid 18 Posted December 28, 2010 Watch it Aces51, they will be on to you for daring to speak out a bit of truth. They are like a pack of Wolves on here and anything that might be too close to the truth gets rubbished by the usual blind fools. End of the day both KL and Birmingham moved up through their own free will, completely stuffing up and wrecking Coventry and Peterboroughs bully boy tactics. Well done to both clubs. Correct sir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedibee 3,091 Posted December 28, 2010 (edited) It was very odd, but equally odd was Birmingham who parted company with Drury due to costs, then in a matter of weeks he was back on board and they decided to go into a more expensive league. Granted the B.ham decision was an odd choice in the light of those things ,but theres little doubt about the KL "decision". the money would have been better spent keeping B.ham open ,as Kings Lynn were already doing alright in the premier league . what you have now is 2 clubs with suspect futures. Edited December 28, 2010 by speedibee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lupus 1 Posted December 28, 2010 Watch it Aces51, they will be on to you for daring to speak out a bit of truth. They are like a pack of Wolves on here and anything that might be too close to the truth gets rubbished by the usual blind fools. End of the day both KL and Birmingham moved up through their own free will, completely stuffing up and wrecking Coventry and Peterboroughs bully boy tactics. Well done to both clubs. OI watch it Shovlar! They're not like a pack of Wolves, more like a swarm of annoying insects!!! Bearing in mind that Bees are not that good at seeing things clearly and have trouble learning from their mistakes..they virtually beat themselves to death trying to go through a window and even when you try to help them go the right way they continue to bang their heads in their own way! They also stick together in a swarm following a 'leader' who takes them in stupid directions - like building their hives in unsafe areas. Funny I've never really understood the relevance of the nickname before...but this winter has really explained a lot! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedibee 3,091 Posted December 28, 2010 [/b] Correct sir B.ham had already joined before the agm , so they were not used as expendable pawns like Kings Lynn Have been. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Shovlar 10,439 Posted December 28, 2010 OI watch it Shovlar! They're not like a pack of Wolves, more like a swarm of annoying insects!!! Bearing in mind that Bees are not that good at seeing things clearly and have trouble learning from their mistakes..they virtually beat themselves to death trying to go through a window and even when you try to help them go the right way they continue to bang their heads in their own way! They also stick together in a swarm following a 'leader' who takes them in stupid directions - like building their hives in unsafe areas. Funny I've never really understood the relevance of the nickname before...but this winter has really explained a lot! Very good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted December 28, 2010 The weakness in your lower order if you have 2 top riders is magnified in all the races they compete not just the 2 races at the conclusion of a meeting. by that deduction. Anyway, a team is about being a team not just who & how. If we used a heat 14 format you'd be correct. In their 4 programmed rides, they cancel each other out BUT heat 15 is the top 2 riders in each team, a team with a stronger top 2 and weaker middle order will beat the other team in heat 15. By giving the top 2 riders in a team an extra ride each, they can score more. At the same time, you're better off having a 5 and 3 point reserve than 2 4's, as the 5 point man can replace the 3 point man in a heat (and any struggling rider in the 1-5). If I was building a team I'd try and sign a good 1,2 and 6, as well as as many riders as possible who were going it improve. But assuming no riders ever improved, you'd be better off with a good top 2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedibee 3,091 Posted December 28, 2010 (edited) Watch it Aces51, they will be on to you for daring to speak out a bit of truth. They are like a pack of Wolves on here and anything that might be too close to the truth gets rubbished by the usual blind fools. End of the day both KL and Birmingham moved up through their own free will, completely stuffing up and wrecking Coventry and Peterboroughs bully boy tactics. Well done to both clubs. What do you know about the truth ? 99% of what you post on here is the truth acccording to Steve Shovlar and only Steve Shovlar believes anything he posts.or takes any notice of what he posts. Edited December 28, 2010 by speedibee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aces51 2,778 Posted December 28, 2010 Are you turning into the Aces version of Steve Shovlar ? I certainly hope not. You must be one of very few who really believe KL just chose to join the elite league . If you look back at he statements from KL in the weeks previous to this affair starting, and then the timing of their announcement it's fairly obvious what occured . Well to most of us it is. What you really mean is that it is obvious to some of those on here who support the Coventry/Peterborough side of the argument. I prefer not to make unsubstantiated allegations or, present as fact, matters that are no more than a guess based on very little information. i am sorry if you think that is turning me into anything other than someone who has a point of view that is different to the one that you hold. It is an old trick of dictatorship supporters, often seen in communist regimes, to try to smear the messenger when the argument is lost. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bryn 413 Posted December 28, 2010 B.ham had already joined before the agm , so they were not used as expendable pawns like Kings Lynn Have been. Mmmm........ Tell you what "speedibee," if you're ever at the Norfolk Arena, King's Lynn for a speedway fixture then do make yourself known to myself and I promise faithfully to introduce you to Buster Chapman so you can tell him personally that he's an "expendable pawn!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyjack2 5 Posted December 28, 2010 (edited) The facts: Decisions were made at the AGM that upset two promoters so much they walked out. Decisions we know of: 40-point limit, New conversion of PL/EL averages EL left at 7 teams, too few for Sky deal BSPA announce Coventry & Peterborough are out BSPA announce no further applications for PL will be considered EL claim track who didn't promote speedway in 2010 will race Kings Lynn miraculously agreed to come up Plymouth are miraculously considered for PL Coventry & Peterborough seek legal advice BSPA block all moves involving Coventry & Peterborough assets BSPA announce they're in mediation with Coventry & Peterborough You've forgotten the first: Birmingham go to EL. It's always been Tony Mole's vision to take Birmingham in to the Elite League that's why he took over Belle Vue from JP so he'd have experience of running an EL track and he got BV for a song as John Perrin wanted out and needed to clear his debts. And the 8.01 rider rule. Also I don't recall Peterborough riders being blocked. If they were, that was another cock up as some had already moved. And if they weren't, it was still a cock up to block one team's riders and not the other. Peterborough riders weren't blocked because Rick Frost said Peterborough didn't want to run EL under current circumstances, so KL signed Peterborough's top EL riders, which was an obvious move. The BSPA sanctioned those deals before they realised Coventry's legal action had any teeth. Once Peterborough realised Coventry's legal team had a case to make and also realised that the BSPA weren't going to let Peterborough join the PL, Peterborough got on board with Coventry to follow the path of legal action, in order to preserve their respective clubs' futures. Don't be surprised if Kennethe Bjerre and Niels Kristian Iversen revert back to Peterborough for 2011. In the past Terry Russell, along with Chris Van Stratton and Matt Ford have ruled the roost at the BSPA, as they have had the financial advantage and the control and influence within the sport to move forward with an agenda that they believed was 'In the best interests of the sport' and I think their intentions have always been relatively genuine but clearly, out of necessity, the best interests of the sport also include the best interests of their respective clubs, at the top of that agenda, as these guys area at the centre of the business that is Speedway GB. Avtar Sandhu and Rick Frost have found themselves in a position where they've been backed in to a corner and have nothing to lose. That's a very dangerous position because they are now going to either stay on their own terms and hopefully lay down the foundation for future framework of equality, or if they are forced out, (which I doubt) they'll adopt a scorched earth policy and napalm the lot of it in terms of the Elite League and TV deal and ride off in a helicopter, only it won't be a Bell Huey Cobra liked they used in Nam. This has been coming for 6 years since Hamill and Hancock were sent from Coventry to Oxford in 2004 in Avtar Sandhu's first season at Brandon. If you look at the BSPA site you might see that the points limit and conversion rate seems fairly clear. You don't sound convinced!? No, that isn't a fact, it is an assumption based on your view of the fact that KL decided to move up. Most people might think that a share of the TV money together with the explanation put forward by KL is the reason. The reason is that if there are less than 8 clubs in the Elite League the Sky deal defaults and Sky are released from their contractual obligations to televise British speedway and they can take their money with them. That means GSI's 20% finders fee revenue stream is gone and a new deal has to be found. No 2010 season review this Xmas on Sky, so the damage is already being done!! Super League got one instead to fill the TX slot that would've ran with the Speedway season review. Edited December 28, 2010 by Skyjack2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Shovlar 10,439 Posted December 28, 2010 If we used a heat 14 format you'd be correct. In their 4 programmed rides, they cancel each other out BUT heat 15 is the top 2 riders in each team, a team with a stronger top 2 and weaker middle order will beat the other team in heat 15. By giving the top 2 riders in a team an extra ride each, they can score more. At the same time, you're better off having a 5 and 3 point reserve than 2 4's, as the 5 point man can replace the 3 point man in a heat (and any struggling rider in the 1-5). If I was building a team I'd try and sign a good 1,2 and 6, as well as as many riders as possible who were going it improve. But assuming no riders ever improved, you'd be better off with a good top 2. Don't try and explain it to CC. I am sure he would be happy with two 7 pointers leading Coventry in 2011. What you really mean is that it is obvious to some of those on here who support the Coventry/Peterborough side of the argument. I prefer not to make unsubstantiated allegations or, present as fact, matters that are no more than a guess based on very little information. i am sorry if you think that is turning me into anything other than someone who has a point of view that is different to the one that you hold. It is an old trick of dictatorship supporters, often seen in communist regimes, to try to smear the messenger when the argument is lost. They won't accept a differing viewpoint from their own, as just proved again by Speedibee. It's their view or no view, and rubbish the opposition by any means available. They are not capable of seeing a different viewpoint at all. At least us with a more neutral viewpoint (in that our clubs are in the fold and running in 2011)can look on it and see there has been no underhand tactics and that Coventry are being panalised with the same rules affecting EVERY club. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarrenCook 0 Posted December 28, 2010 If we used a heat 14 format you'd be correct. In their 4 programmed rides, they cancel each other out BUT heat 15 is the top 2 riders in each team, a team with a stronger top 2 and weaker middle order will beat the other team in heat 15. By giving the top 2 riders in a team an extra ride each, they can score more. At the same time, you're better off having a 5 and 3 point reserve than 2 4's, as the 5 point man can replace the 3 point man in a heat (and any struggling rider in the 1-5). If I was building a team I'd try and sign a good 1,2 and 6, as well as as many riders as possible who were going it improve. But assuming no riders ever improved, you'd be better off with a good top 2. ....except Grachan has already proved that in theory it's best to have seven riders of equal ability (i.e. 7 x 5.71). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedibee 3,091 Posted December 28, 2010 Mmmm........ Tell you what "speedibee," if you're ever at the Norfolk Arena, King's Lynn for a speedway fixture then do make yourself known to myself and I promise faithfully to introduce you to Buster Chapman so you can tell him personally that he's an "expendable pawn!" Thats very kind of you Bryn but I dont need any introduction to Buster I have met him several times , time will show whether KL are an expendable pawn or not , ........back in the premier league in 2012 is my guess Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
