stevebrum 6,819 Posted July 16, 2011 haha you lot are slightly pathetic... the poles have won fair and square simples If the Aussies had won by the rules going there way then that would have been just as much a farce. NONE of it was a farce. ALL teams played a joker so no one had any better advantage. The Poles won fair and square. Congratulations. I can't believe that people are moaning about this meeting. Every team got to use the joker so there was no advantage there and Pedersen spends half his life on his backside anyway so the fall is no great surprise. No -one could ever accuse me of being a Pedersen fan but credit to him for getting off the track...people on here normally moan constantly about people NOT getting off the track! Fabulous meeting with some awesome racing...heat 25 was out of this world! Congratulations to Polska...and the wonderful Tomasz Gollob!!! Can only echo that Lupus. Jonsson for Sweden, Nicki and Bjarne for the Danes and darcy for the Aussies didnt perform as would have been expected. At least each Pole had a glory moment and thats the reason why they won. It makes me laugh when people rave about what a talented rider Gollob is, comparing him to some of the best of all time. He is nowhere near some of the great riders of the past. What he does have are the fastest bikes. Pure opinion. Gollob is one of the most naturally talented riders ive ever seen. And that includes from the 70`s onwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted July 16, 2011 Heat 22 where they lost it, Batchelor should have slowed and let Kolodzej beat him. They could then have used Crump to replace Watt in heat 23. Lets be honest, Boycey makes Middlo look like he knows what he's doing. Completely tactically unaware. Anyway, I wonder if BFD enjoyed tonights team action? Better racing in tonight team meeting than any of he GPs this season by a long way! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted July 16, 2011 Can't agree with that, he is amongst the best riders I have watched since the late 60's, it's not just fast bikes, he is an extremely gifted rider imo. I could watch him race all day long. Can't understand what exactly you think the Poles did tonight, are you suggesting they swapped bikes? Can't see that going unobserved in the pits. Please explain what you think they did. There are non more competitive than the Aussies and Jason Crump didn't seem to have any complaints there at the end. That was a fantastic meeting, best I've seen for ages. Among the best riders since the late 60's? Gollob is great on tracks that suit him, big fast tracks. It has taken him YEARS to learn to ride Cardiff. Put him on Lakeside, Monmore Green and he is an average rider. He is also been known to dissapear when track conditions are not 'ideal'. The true greats down the years could ride tracks of all shapes and sizes and still dominate. I'm not saying he is a bad rider, far from it. But he is far from being an all time great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BongoBrian 0 Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) have to say although each team had chance to play joker i don't think the aussies would have ideally picked holder against hampel would they. holder was great but so was hampel,they would have chosen an easier heat but basically had no choice. Them's the breaks... don't over analyse it though. Every team starts and ends the meeting under the same rules... sometimes it goes for you... sometimes against! What I would say about the Joker, is that if I were a team manager, I would use it at the first opportunity to get 6 points (ie a maximum); irrespective of the timing in the meeting! ...I just hope Sky TV/or whoever it is that do the SGP/SWC series of DVD's do a special un-edited (ie. just as we saw it tonight) DVD of this meeting, cos I would pay £30 for it without even a second thought! It was THAT good Edited July 16, 2011 by BongoBrian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCOTLAND1314 121 Posted July 16, 2011 have to say although each team had chance to play joker i don't think the aussies would have ideally picked holder against hampel would they. holder was great but so was hampel,they would have chosen an easier heat but basically had no choice. Maybees aye maybees naw Oz could have replaced Holder with Crump if they really wanted. Personally I'd have been happy to give joker ride to Holder, he certainly tried like a bear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lino wolf 128 Posted July 16, 2011 Lets be honest, Boycey makes Middlo look like he knows what he's doing. Completely tactically unaware. Anyway, I wonder if BFD enjoyed tonights team action? Better racing in tonight team meeting than any of he GPs this season by a long way! And picking watt ahead of schlein has backfired too !! watt was shocking tonight !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Al Stewart 398 Posted July 16, 2011 I'm glad that all 4 teams were able to use the joker this time, so no one team was disadvantaged. But it would have been far better without the stupid jokers. All teams might have used them but don't forget Poland got an additional Gollob ride out of theirs as well. They were only so far behind because they had gate 1 early on. Without the jokers it might then have come down to the final race deciding the World Cup, and we would not have had eg Davey Watt choosing to drop to the back to get his team 6 down. It's not cheating, it the consequences of pathetic rules. I can't think of anything so poor in any other sport. Speedway's rulemakers have so little faith in the innate excitement of their own sport that they create cynical rules which virtually guarantee a close contest, but not a fair one. The racing was great but it's hard to enjoy it when the rules are so dreadful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedcrazy 58 Posted July 16, 2011 IMO the turning point was with Gollob and the OIL he put in his bike,he left everybody for dead. Also the team talk of the Poles,would love to know their secret,of how to find the set-ups straight away. In the race off on Thursday Team GB never found it ALL NIGHT!!!!!!!! Gollob fast bike Did you see him change his clutch plates, alter the ignition timing .........the extra speed he found was nothing to do with oil Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crumpiefan 44 Posted July 16, 2011 Them's the breaks... don't over analyse it though. Every team starts and ends the meeting under the same rules... sometimes it goes for you... sometimes against! What I would say about the Joker, is that if I were a team manager, I would use it at the first opportunity to get 6 points (ie a maximum) from it that I would jump at; irrespective of the timing in the meeting! ...I just hope Sky TV/or whoever it is that do the SGP/SWC series of DVD's do a special un-edited (ie. just as we saw it tonight) DVD of this meeting, cos I would pay £30 for it without even a second thought! not over analysing it at all,just stating the fact that australia weren't in a position to use the joker till heat 24 when they had to face hampel. ideally they would have used it against a kolodziej or kk. the result was a fair one - as other people have said all the poles came good at the end whilst oz only had 3 riders at their best,denmark and swedens big guns (bar bjerre and lindgren) failed to show. but even saying that,the joker rule has been at other times just that,a joke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dornier 794 Posted July 16, 2011 Best team won , Ward & Watt just weren`t good enough. simples Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCOTLAND1314 121 Posted July 16, 2011 But it would have been far better without the stupid jokers. All teams might have used them but don't forget Poland got an additional Gollob ride out of theirs as well. They were only so far behind because they had gate 1 early on. Without the jokers it might then have come down to the final race deciding the World Cup, and we would not have had eg Davey Watt choosing to drop to the back to get his team 6 down. It's not cheating, it the consequences of pathetic rules. I can't think of anything so poor in any other sport. Speedway's rulemakers have so little faith in the innate excitement of their own sport that they create cynical rules which virtually guarantee a close contest, but not a fair one. The racing was great but it's hard to enjoy it when the rules are so dreadful. If a man of Crumpie's speedway standing indicates it's been one of the best meetings he's participated in that'll do for me, no matter how it came about. IMO the Joker ride added to this meeting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BongoBrian 0 Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) Anyway, I wonder if BFD enjoyed tonights team action? Aye, Dave was blabbing about the benefits of individual over team last week in Glasgow ...but I'm not going to hold it against the big man, my beer is at least 2 Degres Centigrade cooler now (come the dregs), due to his technological ingenuity in the field of beer cooler systems! Well used technology at that. Edited July 16, 2011 by BongoBrian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dempo 124 Posted July 16, 2011 Can't believe a few folk are moaning after witnessing this meeting..get a life and just enjoy it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
salty 2,194 Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) But it would have been far better without the stupid jokers. All teams might have used them but don't forget Poland got an additional Gollob ride out of theirs as well. They were only so far behind because they had gate 1 early on. Without the jokers it might then have come down to the final race deciding the World Cup, and we would not have had eg Davey Watt choosing to drop to the back to get his team 6 down. It's not cheating, it the consequences of pathetic rules. I can't think of anything so poor in any other sport. Speedway's rulemakers have so little faith in the innate excitement of their own sport that they create cynical rules which virtually guarantee a close contest, but not a fair one. The racing was great but it's hard to enjoy it when the rules are so dreadful. Good points, but there has always been some sort of device to try and help teams get back in contention. Can't remember whether you were able to use tac subs in the WTC back in the 70's, I think the only option was to track your reserve. I guess we've got used to the joker by now, though I don't like the way it encourages teams to drop a point to enable them to use it. On reflection I would prefer to see the end of the joker and be happy with simple tac subs. Haven't got a race-card in front of me but it does seem the way the gates are allocated is an area that can be improved. Teams set to clumps of 3 or 4 heats together from the inside or outside traps, surely the should be a formula which could be a bit more equitable? Edited July 16, 2011 by salty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCOTLAND1314 121 Posted July 16, 2011 Them's the breaks... don't over analyse it though. Every team starts and ends the meeting under the same rules... sometimes it goes for you... sometimes against! What I would say about the Joker, is that if I were a team manager, I would use it at the first opportunity to get 6 points (ie a maximum); irrespective of the timing in the meeting! ...I just hope Sky TV/or whoever it is that do the SGP/SWC series of DVD's do a special un-edited (ie. just as we saw it tonight) DVD of this meeting, cos I would pay £30 for it without even a second thought! It was THAT good BB watch the re-run at 0030 I know I will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
