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Carter Where Does He Rate With The Great British Riders?

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Always difficult to do this, but I reckon he was miles better than anyone around today. Always awesome in test matches, especially against the Yanks.

As an Ipswich fan, we always hated him, but you couldnt but respect his talent.

 

Were you there the night they had to carry him off the track after he was excluded in the 16 lapper .... took about 5 big blokes to get a 5ft nowt skinny runt off the circuit ... hilarious :lol:

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Never saw Carter ride, but from 1963 my choice would include Collins, Craven, Lee, Nigel/Eric Boocock, Wilson, Ashby, Jessup, Louis, Betts, Simmons, Morton, Wigg, Loram, Broadbanks, Kennett, Tatum, Les Collins, Pusey, McKinlay among the top 20 British riders.

I still don't get it.How on earth does Pusey rate among the best of British since 63 or anytime?Was he better than Hedge,Pratt,McMillan,Luckhurst or even John Davis?I would rate Pusey alongside riders like Reg Wilson and Doug Wyer maybe.But no way would he be in a top 20 British riders unless you were narrowing it down to the 70s :blink:

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I am suprised that nobody has mention Gary Havelock or Chris Louis who both are former world champions. I would certainly place them ahead of Trevor Hedge,The Boococks,Geoff Pusey,McKinlay,Ray Wilson and Kelvin Tatum

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I am suprised that nobody has mention Gary Havelock or Chris Louis who both are former world champions. I would certainly place them ahead of Trevor Hedge,The Boococks,Geoff Pusey,McKinlay,Ray Wilson and Kelvin Tatum

 

Firstly, I don't think that a World Under-21 Championship should automatically place someone like Chris Louis ahead of guys like Nigel Boocock and Ken McKinlay. Those two proved themselves to be top-line riders for MANY years, both domestically and internationally. Oh, and who mentioned Geoff Pusey???

 

Steve

 

 

 

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as a visitor to Hyde Road i would rate Carter as the best English rider i saw there consistently...so fast and ruthless and his races with Collins and Morton were anticipated for ages..although i would say Collins was slightly past his best when Carter was at his peak..i would have liked to see them clash at Hyde Road with Collins at his very peak.

Overall away from Halifax and Hyde Road at World international level he would have to rank a bit lower down because he never made a World Final rostrum due to various problems and injuries, so he would be behind Peter Collins, Lee, Simmons, Jessup and achievements wise behind Havelock and Loram although potentially he could have been third behind Collins and Lee from all the English riders i have seen

 

and the best 16 year old Brits i have seen were Lee and Joe Screen...i thought Screen was immense at that age and didn't achieve what he might have done

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as a visitor to Hyde Road i would rate Carter as the best English rider i saw there consistently...so fast and ruthless and his races with Collins and Morton were anticipated for ages..although i would say Collins was slightly past his best when Carter was at his peak..i would have liked to see them clash at Hyde Road with Collins at his very peak.

Overall away from Halifax and Hyde Road at World international level he would have to rank a bit lower down because he never made a World Final rostrum due to various problems and injuries, so he would be behind Peter Collins, Lee, Simmons, Jessup and achievements wise behind Havelock and Loram although potentially he could have been third behind Collins and Lee from all the English riders i have seen

 

and the best 16 year old Brits i have seen were Lee and Joe Screen...i thought Screen was immense at that age and didn't achieve what he might have done

Michael Lee aged 16 no 1 at BOSTON in the old national league some doing never happen now averaged over 9 reached N.L.R.C FINAL.The national league then was tough with the two Owens, Jackson, Etheridge ect all good riders.Lee and Carter no comparison LEE won honours Carter didnt not when it mattered anyway Lee was a great rider and was always great with supporters.

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i would have liked to see them clash at Hyde Road with Collins at his very peak.

 

 

I don't think Carter would of had any idea where Collins was going to come from, when Collins was at his peak (1977 season) The likes of Olsen, Mauger, Louis, Jessup and Ashby would regularly lead Collins for a lap or so with Collins riding inside then outside leading to them looking over there shoulders to see where he was, If they looked left Collins was going round the boards, if they looked right Collins was cutting back inside and he was gone. And i don't think Kenny Carter was any better around Hyde Road than any of the above mentioned riders, although he was good around there, as he was at most tracks.

 

Kenny Carter, IMO never for-filled his potential. Be that due to his mental state, his injurys, his lack of respect to his fellow riders or a potent mix of all three, he never stepped up to the next level at the big world championship events. I would put him up there with the likes of Nigel and Eric Boocock, Martin Ashby, Gordon Kennett and Les Collins. But not in the same class as Peter Collins, Dave Jessup, Michael Lee and Mark Loram. And nowhere near the greatest ever Englishman, Liverpools very own Peter Craven :approve:

 

With regard to another one of Liverpools sporting sons, Chris Pusey. Chris was a very good rider who was looking like he too could go all the way to the top. But he had a bad injury in the mid seventies and was just a pale shadow of his former self after that.

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I don't think Carter would of had any idea where Collins was going to come from, when Collins was at his peak (1977 season) The likes of Olsen, Mauger, Louis, Jessup and Ashby would regularly lead Collins for a lap or so with Collins riding inside then outside leading to them looking over there shoulders to see where he was, If they looked left Collins was going round the boards, if they looked right Collins was cutting back inside and he was gone. And i don't think Kenny Carter was any better around Hyde Road than any of the above mentioned riders, although he was good around there, as he was at most tracks.

 

Kenny Carter, IMO never for-filled his potential. Be that due to his mental state, his injurys, his lack of respect to his fellow riders or a potent mix of all three, he never stepped up to the next level at the big world championship events. I would put him up there with the likes of Nigel and Eric Boocock, Martin Ashby, Gordon Kennett and Les Collins. But not in the same class as Peter Collins, Dave Jessup, Michael Lee and Mark Loram. And nowhere near the greatest ever Englishman, Liverpools very own Peter Craven :approve:

 

With regard to another one of Liverpools sporting sons, Chris Pusey. Chris was a very good rider who was looking like he too could go all the way to the top. But he had a bad injury in the mid seventies and was just a pale shadow of his former self after that.

Collins at hyde rd was awesome if Collins at his peak had met a peak Carter i think out of 20 races hazard a guess 14 wins for Collins 6 for Carter even then i think Carter would of done well to win 6 races.Collins was so confident in his ability to come from the back i think at his peak Olsen and Mauger were the only ones who could beat him regularly at hyde rd.

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Kenny Carter, IMO never for-filled his potential. Be that due to his mental state, his injurys, his lack of respect to his fellow riders or a potent mix of all three, he never stepped up to the next level at the big world championship events. I would put him up there with the likes of Nigel and Eric Boocock, Martin Ashby, Gordon Kennett and Les Collins. But not in the same class as Peter Collins, Dave Jessup, Michael Lee and Mark Loram. And nowhere near the greatest ever Englishman, very own Peter Craven :approve:

I think it's obvious why Carter never fulfilled his potential.

As he said himself, "I broke down in 1981, I got knocked off in 1982, 1983 was a bad year..."

 

And of course, he broke his leg in 1984 and 1985 and we all know about 1986.

 

I don't think he can be accused of not stepping up to it in World Championships:

 

1981: 3,2,3,E,3 = 11 (5th)

1982: 3,3,3,X,1 = 10 (5th)

1983: 2,3,3,1,1 = 10 (5th)

1984: injured

1985: injured

 

I just think he was desperately unlucky.

Edited by ImpartialOne

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I think it's obvious why Carter never fulfilled his potential.

As he said himself, "I broke down in 1981, I got knocked off in 1982, 1983 was a bad year..."

 

And of course, he broke his leg in 1984 and 1985 and we all know about 1986.

 

I don't think he can be accused of not stepping up to it in World Championships:

 

1981: 3,2,3,E,3 = 11 (5th)

1982: 3,3,3,X,1 = 10 (5th)

1983: 2,3,3,1,1 = 10 (5th)

1984: injured

1985: injured

 

I just think he was desperately unlucky.

I loved watching him ride was a terrific rider.But i never felt in any of those years he was good anough to win it.Even when Michael Lee was on his game Carter for me was never Englands no1.Didnt see it wish i had remember Mike destroying Carter for the Golden Helmet at Halifax beat him 4.0 over both legs.

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I loved watching him ride was a terrific rider.But i never felt in any of those years he was good anough to win it.Even when Michael Lee was on his game Carter for me was never Englands no1.Didnt see it wish i had remember Mike destroying Carter for the Golden Helmet at Halifax beat him 4.0 over both legs.

He was unbeaten going into heat 14 in 1982. There's no question that what happened in that heat completely destroyed his morale but up until that point he was very dominant and looked very capable of winning it.

 

In 1981 I seem to recall both he and Gundersen were leading when they broke down. If that is the case, there would have been a three man run off for the title between Penhall, Carter and Gundersen. Even in 83 he was in contention at the interval so hardly someone who never looked like winning it.

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At 17yrs old Ronnie Moore was a World Finalist and World Champion at 21, youngest ever for both but what does that prove?

 

I would say that without a doubt Peter Craven is the greatest ever British rider. I not only say that from seeing him race but the fact that you could have put Peter on a modern lay-down and his style would have suited it perfectly, you could have put him on any speedway bike made in the last sixty years and he would have been as good on any of them and I do not think you will find another rider in the world who you could have said that about.

 

As this thread refers to great British riders and as Ronnie Moore was an Australian it proves absolutely nothing.

 

Moore is irrelevant to the stated topic of the thread.

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As this thread refers to great British riders and as Ronnie Moore was an Australian it proves absolutely nothing.

 

Moore is irrelevant to the stated topic of the thread.

His nationality was New Zealand despite being born in Australia.

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How about throwing Martin Dugard into the mix? Never made it on the individual world stage like others, but consistently at the top of the British League and Division 1 and Elite League averages when it was still considered one of the toughest leagues in the world.

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