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To move this on a bit.I would like to know about the motorcycle racing in Australia before and around the time of Maitland.We know there we different surfaces,but what of the races themselves?Was it a case of anyone with a motorbike turning up and racing or where there different classes?Where there differing numbers of riders or was it the classic 4 riders that we know now?When was 'speedway' officially recognised in Australia?Like maybe when did Speedway have an official organising body or was affiliated into the Australian Motorcycle Union or whatever it was back then.Or did this only happen recently in the 70s when Australia went into the WTC?Not that this helps with any argument,just would like to know what sort of racing was being presented to the public

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The report of the meeting on 15 December shows there were three motor-cycle racing events. The first was a three quarter mile event; the second a two mile event and the third a four mile event. The first two events were handicap events; I'm not sure about the third. No handicaps are shown for the four mile event. I don't know how many riders there were in each race; the newspaper only records the first three. As far as I know the Maitland track was grass. I should add that as well as the motor-cycle racing there was cart racing, bicycle racing, trotting races, athletics events and something called "Threading the Needle" race.

 

In the early days, other Carnival event programmes seem to consist of much the same sort of motor-cycle racing and other events. Thebarton Oval (South Australia) held several similar events from 1921 onwards, also on grass, but by January 1923 (11 months before the Maitland meeting), the surface had been converted to cinders, so was a proper (what we would now call) dirt track. This meeting was held under floodlights.

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Like maybe when did Speedway have an official organising body or was affiliated into the Australian Motorcycle Union or whatever it was back then.Or did this only happen recently in the 70s when Australia went into the WTC?Not that this helps with any argument,just would like to know what sort of racing was being presented to the public

 

Motorcycling Australia (formerly Auto Cycle Council of Australia) claims a foundation date of 1928. Indeed, MA's own website indicates speedway was the first form of professional competition, so it's not beyond the stretch of imagination that a federation was formed to regulate speedway or whatever it happened to be called at the time.

 

ACCA affiliated directly with the FIM in 1975, so presumably it previously affiliated through the ACU as a national club.

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To move this on a bit.I would like to know about the motorcycle racing in Australia before and around the time of Maitland.We know there we different surfaces,but what of the races themselves?Was it a case of anyone with a motorbike turning up and racing or where there different classes?Where there differing numbers of riders or was it the classic 4 riders that we know now?When was 'speedway' officially recognised in Australia?Like maybe when did Speedway have an official organising body or was affiliated into the Australian Motorcycle Union or whatever it was back then.Or did this only happen recently in the 70s when Australia went into the WTC?Not that this helps with any argument,just would like to know what sort of racing was being presented to the public

 

'Oval racing In OZ'

Motorcycle racing on oval tracks started around 1902 although this is not a definitive date. Banked wooden and concrete cycle tracks were used for racing what were little more than motorised bicycles. Many sports fields, football and cricket pitches were surrounded by hard rolled cinder tracks which were used for cycling and athletics, they also saw racing. Some type of board track racing seems to have taken place in Oz but not as the Americans would know it. Horse trotting or harness racing as it is called was popular and many tracks existed, usually between half to one mile in length. The surface was, it seems, mostly grass although some may have been rolled dirt. How much grass was left on the turns can only be guessed at. On the country tracks and/or club meetings I think it would be a case of racing whatever you turned up on. At the more serious meetings bikes were I suggest more like their American counterparts, no brakes no gears etc. real dirt bikes. There may have been as many as 12 riders per race or as little as 2. Maitland was a Grass covered trotting track. In Oz racing on these tracks probably started before the First World War as it did in most civilised countries, except it seems Great Britain.

New Zealand also had grass covered Trotting tracks; I have a photo of Ray Crawley seated on an American Excelsior Dirt Bike ....no brakes etc. at a grass covered track, the date 1916

 

It was not Speedway as we know it (1923). That evolved during the next 4 years (Thank you Australia)

As for the first Floodlight meeting on an oval track, that honour I believe goes to the Americans who had done this before the First World War with Board Tracks.

 

Hope this is of some use.

 

It could be argued that Maitland was the catalyst that started it all in much the same way as High Beech. In my view Maitland was less of a Speedway meeting than High Beech and again to draw parallels I suggest Maitland was, like High Beech, down to a number of people and a particular set of circumstances.

It is seldom the case that one person did it all but is frequently the case that one person claims the credit.

Edited by Nigel

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Does seem to be down to availability of Trotting tracks to some extent.I don't know how many there were in Britain back then.I have heard about motorcycle meetings on Trotting tracks in Germany and Austria around 1924.Would guess meetings were held in countries like Czechoslovakia as well.Not sure just when Pardubice opened,but i seems very different in the early years to the track we seee now.Much bigger.Just what sort of racing were the likes of Jack Parker and Gus Kuhn doing before the arrival of AJ Hunting?.The path racing at Crystal Palace for instance seems a very strange type of racing as i guess were the hill racing type meetings in the US and also Britain.At some early stage motorcycle racing started to evolve in different directions,but basically at that early stage oval track racing was the same animal,no matter how many riders or how big the track or what the surface or how many laps....

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Funnily enough, the original intended venue for Jack Hill-Bailey and the Ilford Motor Cycle and Light Car Club's first meeting was a trotting track at Parsloes Park before it all fell through and they moved it to an old cycle track at High Beech.....

 

I believe Jack Parker was a trials rider before turning to speedway and Gus Kuhn was a road racer. He competed in the Isle of Man TT, coming 5th in the Junior Division in 1926.

Edited by norbold

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Does seem to be down to availability of Trotting tracks to some extent.I don't know how many there were in Britain back then.I have heard about motorcycle meetings on Trotting tracks in Germany and Austria around 1924.Would guess meetings were held in countries like Czechoslovakia as well.Not sure just when Pardubice opened,but i seems very different in the early years to the track we seee now.Much bigger.Just what sort of racing were the likes of Jack Parker and Gus Kuhn doing before the arrival of AJ Hunting?.The path racing at Crystal Palace for instance seems a very strange type of racing as i guess were the hill racing type meetings in the US and also Britain.At some early stage motorcycle racing started to evolve in different directions,but basically at that early stage oval track racing was the same animal,no matter how many riders or how big the track or what the surface or how many laps....

 

The Ilford clubs first choice of track was the disused Parsloes park trotting track.Permission for its use never granted.

In 1928 Blackpool and Greenford trotting tracks were used. The blurb in a 1928 Greenford programme says they believe that dirt track racing is best seen on big trotting tracks, were did that info come from (USA?) seeing as the Australians thought that 440yrds the optimum size. I have reports of dirt track racing on trotting tracks in Italy 1911 and South Africa as early as 1908. California 1902. Jack Parker I think only rode in Trials. Gus Kuhn(see his website)did road racing(TT), trials,Path racing and Grass track but this was a completely different animal to the grass track racing we know today.

 

edit:-whoops ...looks like you have beaten me to it Norbold

 

Whoops again ..I forgot to mention Audenshaw and Droylesdon although the later was not a trotting track in 1927 as is commonly believed.

Edited by Nigel

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I found some forgotten items in my computor files...a cutting for two adverts in a Rockhampton (Australia) newspaper ..

 

"Trotting and Motorcycle sports" at the showground (Sept 22nd) Rockhampton agricultural society........... also

 

"Motorcycle sports" at the Showground (August).. Central Queensland Championship, the year 1919

Edited by Nigel

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This is far away from Maitland December 1923 but it's pertinent to the debate. I have just visited on oldtimespeedway groups its magazines section and under Cyril May Heritage there's an article about the first High Beech meeting by Cyril. He writes about the sport's arrival in the UK and a photo shows Cyril with a poster advertising the first British meeting at High Beech on February 19 1928 at 10am. The poster, believed then to be the only one in existence, reads:

Dirt Track Racing

King's Oak Speedway

February 19 10am.

This article appeared in 'Speedway Star' on February 18 1978 on page 22.

So was the meeting dirt track or was it speedway?

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

Edited by olddon

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It's a good point, olddon. I think that in the early days the two names were used interchangeably though it is probable that the term dirt track applied to the actual sport, while speedway applied to the venue itself, as it seems to be in the case you quote and was certainly the case in Australia from about mid 1924 onwards. It would seem that in this country at least the term speedway became synonymous with the sport itself when Speedway News, under A J Hunting, became established in May 1928.

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Go to http://manchesterhistory.net/bellevue/hoskins.html and read the original of this (a change from wikipedia for me).

 

Johnnie Hoskins

Johnnie Hoskins played a major role in the introduction of both dirt track motorcycle racing and stock car racing into the UK.

 

Hoskins was born in New Zealand and moved to Australia in the early years of the Twentieth Century. His speciality was publicity and throughout his life Hoskins was a driving force ever ready to promote another innovation.

 

Motor cycle racing had started as early as 1909 in Australia, although at that time it was on an asphalt surface. Grass track racing appeared in 1917. It was in 1923 though, in New South Wales, that the secretary of the West Maitland Agricultural Show, a keen motor cycle rider, Johnny Hoskins, introduced racing on a dirt track under lights. Speedway was born.

 

Hoskins' next move was to Newcastle, Australia, where he laid out the first red shale track and from there he took the sport to Sydney and Perth.

 

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

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Go to http://manchesterhistory.net/bellevue/hoskins.html and read the original of this (a change from wikipedia for me).

 

Johnnie Hoskins

Johnnie Hoskins played a major role in the introduction of both dirt track motorcycle racing and stock car racing into the UK.

 

Hoskins was born in New Zealand and moved to Australia in the early years of the Twentieth Century. His speciality was publicity and throughout his life Hoskins was a driving force ever ready to promote another innovation.

 

Motor cycle racing had started as early as 1909 in Australia, although at that time it was on an asphalt surface. Grass track racing appeared in 1917. It was in 1923 though, in New South Wales, that the secretary of the West Maitland Agricultural Show, a keen motor cycle rider, Johnny Hoskins, introduced racing on a dirt track under lights. Speedway was born.

 

Hoskins' next move was to Newcastle, Australia, where he laid out the first red shale track and from there he took the sport to Sydney and Perth.

 

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

Well that highly authoritative source is proof for me....

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Go to http://manchesterhistory.net/bellevue/hoskins.html and read the original of this (a change from wikipedia for me).

 

Johnnie Hoskins

Johnnie Hoskins played a major role in the introduction of both dirt track motorcycle racing and stock car racing into the UK.

 

Hoskins was born in New Zealand and moved to Australia in the early years of the Twentieth Century. His speciality was publicity and throughout his life Hoskins was a driving force ever ready to promote another innovation.

 

Motor cycle racing had started as early as 1909 in Australia, although at that time it was on an asphalt surface. Grass track racing appeared in 1917. It was in 1923 though, in New South Wales, that the secretary of the West Maitland Agricultural Show, a keen motor cycle rider, Johnny Hoskins, introduced racing on a dirt track under lights. Speedway was born.

 

Hoskins' next move was to Newcastle, Australia, where he laid out the first red shale track and from there he took the sport to Sydney and Perth.

 

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

 

Johnnie Hoskins played a major role in the introduction of dirt track motor cycle racing into the UK did he? If we are talking about 1928 here, Hoskins was a "bit player" at best.

 

The third paragraph should also be filed away in the "fiction" department. Motor cycles were racing on sports grounds in Australia years before 1909, and the surface wasn't asphalt. So, grass track racing commenced in Australia in 1917? No, it was earlier than that. In 1923 Johnnie Hoskins introduced motor cycle racing on a dirt track and under lights at Maitland did he? Wrong - the surface was grass. I hope thinking people would question the comment that "speedway was born" at Maitland in 1923.

 

Then the last paragraph - the wording could create the incorrect impression, or maybe the writer didn't know better when he wrote it.

Hoskins did not leave Maitland to go to Newcastle, he left Maitland to take up a position in Sydney, a job not connected with motor cycle racing. He left that Sydney job to take up the position as Secretary to the promotion which had built and opened the track at Newcastle. He took up that post after the racing season had commenced.

 

There are some who think Hoskins built the speedway at Newcastle and ran the operation himself. I have the list of Directors of the company which built and opened the speedway - Hoskins is not mentioned.

Edited by Ross Garrigan

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Johnnie Hoskins played a major role in the introduction of dirt track motor cycle racing into the UK did he? If we are talking about 1928 here, Hoskins was a "bit player" at best.

 

The third paragraph should also be filed away in the "fiction" department. Motor cycles were racing on sports grounds in Australia years before 1909, and the surface wasn't asphalt. So, grass track racing commenced in Australia in 1917? No, it was earlier than that. In 1923 Johnnie Hoskins introduced motor cycle racing on a dirt track and under lights at Maitland did he? Wrong - the surface was grass. I hope thinking people would question the comment that "speedway was born" at Maitland in 1923.

 

Then the last paragraph - the wording could create the incorrect impression, or maybe the writer didn't know better when he wrote it.

Hoskins did not leave Maitland to go to Newcastle, he left Maitland to take up a position in Sydney, a job not connected with motor cycle racing. He left that Sydney job to take up the position as Secretary to the promotion which had built and opened the track at Newcastle. He took up that post after the racing season had commenced.

 

There are some who think Hoskins built the speedway at Newcastle and ran the operation himself. I have the list of Directors of the company which built and opened the speedway - Hoskins is not mentioned.

 

If you want to find out more on Belle Vue, Manchester in general, and a mention of White City, here's the main link into the site that features Johnnie Hoskins.

 

http://manchesterhistory.net

 

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

Edited by olddon

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