Nigel 38 Posted October 8, 2011 I think Johnnie Hoskins deserves the tag of "The Father Of Speedway". It's arguable whether West Maitland in 1923 was the first meeting or not, but that's not really the point. It was Hoskins who first really promoted and shaped speedway. All the best Rob No it wasn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 38 Posted October 8, 2011 Well - I regard Johnnie Hoskins as the 'Father' of Speedway. Always have - and - always will. :approve: Arnt you the clever one?............... Have a good day Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olddon 7 Posted October 8, 2011 As some one who has done much serious research on the subject and has traveled some thousands of miles to various archives and libraries and is concerned with historical accuracy and has no wish to make a so called attack on Johnie H, I note that those who believe in the Hoskins myths have not got off their fat a**** and done any research. These bar room experts are in total denial, they do not wish to know the truth cos it upsets their neat little world, but as I suspect they are just on this forum to wind people up, ON YER BIKES.. None of you have one shred of evidence to back up your superstitious beliefs and I will not make any attempt to convert you. You cant give spectacles to the blind and expect them to see! Ian H bless him, in his advancing years may be suffering with memory loss, and Hallucinating (allegedly)as he keeps seeing attacks on his father I have not seen any attack on JHs person or his abilities as as a showman and promotor Those who see an attack where there isnt one are suffering with paranoia? (if the cap fits ) The majority of people out there understand logic and facts, The few wind up merchants (AKA Al Qaeda) on this forun are in a small minority. This is like the civil war even after the kings head was cut of people did not belive he was dead. The only thing JH is father of is his children. Still got the tractor Big Fat Dave? time you went on a diet mate, to much of this has addled your brain Ahh my old adversary Olddon, Quote:- "And some times even proof is offered" I love that phrase! Well bless my soul.. proof? er sometimes, Please show me. Anti Hoskins brigade what anti Hoskins brigade Come in out of the rain jack you are begining to look like something on the end of a tap Regards to all Plonkas, Nigel Gosh! What a tirade. You sound like a general who has lost the high ground - or rather like someone who has long believed Johnnie Hoskins DID NOT start/invent speedway having to face an increasing groundswell from those who have a contrary opinion. And where was I your "old adversary'? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olddon 7 Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) No it wasn't. How do you know Johnnie Hoskins didn't first promote/invent speedway you? Were you there? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Edited October 8, 2011 by olddon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,098 Posted October 8, 2011 How do we know Napoleon didn't win at Waterloo? Were any of us there? How do we know King Harold didn't with the battle of Hastings? Were any of us there? How do we know the French didn't win the Battle of Agincourt? Were any of us there? Well done, Jack, you have added a whole new dimension to historical research. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFatDave 258 Posted October 8, 2011 Great answer, Dave. Those two dates are so instantly recognisable that you don't know what they are. If you took the time to actually read my post you'd notice I was quoting Ian Hoskins, rather than making a statement, so your argument is pettyfogging at best. The point is, olddon, there is no proof that Hoskins "invented" speedway other than him saying he did. But olddon didn't say that, did he, Norbold? More red herrings. As some one who has done much serious research on the subject and has traveled some thousands of miles to various archives and libraries and is concerned with historical accuracy and has no wish to make a so called attack on Johnie H, I note that those who believe in the Hoskins myths have not got off their fat a**** and done any research. So you've been to Maitland then, oh much-travelled one? Still got the tractor Big Fat Dave? time you went on a diet mate, to much of this has addled your brain Regards to all Plonkas, Nigel Had to be a Nigel. How do we know Napoleon didn't win at Waterloo? Were any of us there? How do we know King Harold didn't with the battle of Hastings? Were any of us there? How do we know the French didn't win the Battle of Agincourt? Were any of us there? Well done, Jack, you have added a whole new dimension to historical research. More red herrings from someone too lazy to do his own research. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,098 Posted October 8, 2011 If you took the time to actually read my post you'd notice I was quoting Ian Hoskins, rather than making a statement, so your argument is pettyfogging at best. I know it was Ian Hoskins who made the remark, thank you, Dave. But nice of you to reiterate it. The point I was actually making was that there is no date when football or cricket was said to be founded. In fact, it seems to me that Ian is rather shooting himself in the foot using that argument because like football and cricket, speedway evolved and there is no starting date. But olddon didn't say that, did he, Norbold? More red herrings. So are you saying that Olddon does not think Hoskins invented speedway? I think you'll find that's exactly what he's been saying. So you've been to Maitland then, oh much-travelled one? What difference does that make? More red herrings from someone too lazy to do his own research. I think your mind has become too fuddled trying to defend the indefensible, Dave. If you re-read Olddon's post it was he who was making the point that apparently you had to be there to know whether something happened or not. It was he who was denying the benefit of research. I was trying to point out the absurdity of that view. Of course, I'm not too lazy to do the research. I have done lots of research just as Nigel and Ross have. Anyone who has actually researched the beginnings of speedway will tell you it was NOT 'invented' by Johnnie Hoskins. It's you and people like you who are too lazy to do the research who just accept the old myth without question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 38 Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) Quote:- Gosh! What a tirade. You sound like a general who has lost the high ground - or rather like someone who has long believed Johnnie Hoskins DID NOT start/invent speedway having to face an increasing groundswell from those who have a contrary opinion. And where was I your "old adversary'? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT -:Un-quote Glad you appreciate my efforts Jack but I think tirade is a bit strong... Do you think I will win the "Booker Prize" Glad I sound like a general, Promotion at last........ you sound like a grumpy old man My Old "Advesary on The "Speedway History Forum" I aint lost the High ground I dont 'believe' JH did not start speedway I know he did not, it is not a matter of opinion it is a matter of fact. Like most people I believed the myth until I started researching my local tracks. Increasing Groundswell what 3 people on a forum.. your having a laugh,,, I have not offered an opinion therefore there aint a contary one, this is not religion. Religion is about belief History is about facts. Again you offer no facts or reasoned argument Do you think you have a closed mind Jack Hope you enjoyed my epistle Must go I have got to slop out the Inmates. Edited October 8, 2011 by Nigel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 38 Posted October 8, 2011 How do you know Johnnie Hoskins didn't first promote/invent speedway you? Were you there? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT I have a brand new "Tardis" on the drive Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFatDave 258 Posted October 8, 2011 I know it was Ian Hoskins who made the remark, thank you, Dave. But nice of you to reiterate it. The point I was actually making was that there is no date when football or cricket was said to be founded. In fact, it seems to me that Ian is rather shooting himself in the foot using that argument because like football and cricket, speedway evolved and there is no starting date. If you knew Hoskins made the remark why ask me to clarify it? So are you saying that Olddon does not think Hoskins invented speedway? I think you'll find that's exactly what he's been saying. Unlike you, Norbold, I don't claim to know what other people are thinking. What difference does that make? Ask Nigel. I think your mind has become too fuddled trying to defend the indefensible, Dave. If you re-read Olddon's post it was he who was making the point that apparently you had to be there to know whether something happened or not. It was he who was denying the benefit of research. I was trying to point out the absurdity of that view. Of course, I'm not too lazy to do the research. I have done lots of research just as Nigel and Ross have. Anyone who has actually researched the beginnings of speedway will tell you it was NOT 'invented' by Johnnie Hoskins. It's you and people like you who are too lazy to do the research who just accept the old myth without question. I'm not trying to defend anything, Norbold. I posted a statement by Ian Hoskins - you seem to have adopted a 'Shoot the Messenger' approach - I think your retirement may have contributed to your rapid decline in debating skills. As for me, while I don't claim to be the fount of all knowledge like yourself, or pretend to have done lots of research while facetiously asking other people to prove one's own points, at least I've been to Maitland and seen the evidence with my own eyes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 38 Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) If you took the time to actually read my post you'd notice I was quoting Ian Hoskins, rather than making a statement, so your argument is pettyfogging at best. Had to be a Nigel. More red herrings from someone too lazy to do his own research. Yes David (Bruce) it is a Nigel keep of it Dave Are you into fishing dave. so many red herrings .... plus insults If I were you Id stick to tea Youve been to Maitland and seen the evidence... have you got a "Tardis" as well, ... what evidence.. a plaque on a wall Edited October 8, 2011 by Nigel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFatDave 258 Posted October 8, 2011 Yes David (Bruce) it is a Nigel keep of it Dave Are you into fishing dave. so many red herrings .... plus insults If I were you Id stick to tea Youve been to Maitland and seen the evidence... have you got a "Tardis" as well, ... what evidence.. a plaque on a wall What insults? I don't know what you're on, mate but you can keep it - I have enough problems following your misspelt ungrammatical rant as it is. You have no evidence, just an opinion which you seem to think we should accept as fact purely on your say so - life's not like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 38 Posted October 8, 2011 Quote:- I'm not trying to defend anything, Norbold. I posted a statement by Ian Hoskins - you seem to have adopted a 'Shoot the Messenger' approach - I think your retirement may have contributed to your rapid decline in debating skills. As for me, while I don't claim to be the fount of all knowledge like yourself, or pretend to have done lots of research while facetiously asking other people to prove one's own points, at least I've been to Maitland and seen the evidence with my own eyes. :-unquote Hmmmm... the insults aint even humorous, could be seen as a tad spiteful? Norbold has never claimed to be the fount of all knowlege or given that impression in my view. Facetious 1. characterized by levity of attitude and love of joking, a facetious person 2. jocular or amusing, esp at inappropriate times facetious remarks Dont loose your sense of Humour Dave !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 38 Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) What insults? I don't know what you're on, mate but you can keep it - I have enough problems following your misspelt ungrammatical rant as it is. You have no evidence, just an opinion which you seem to think we should accept as fact purely on your say so - life's not like that. You are a grumpy old man !!!! Everone else seems to be able to follow my miss spelt ungramatical rant, whats your problem? yes I wish there was a spell checker on this forum Ungramatical..spelling, Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black ... "Lifes not like That" what a pearl of wisdom Sorry but it aint opinion and I have not offered one and Ive not asked you to accept anything If You choose not to believe thats your choice but it dont alter the truth.. to be honest I could not care less what you believe as I said I aint going to bother to convert those with closed minds, the flat earthers. And how the hell would you know what evidence I have. On the basis of your arguments you do not believe anything about anything. Not much point in you reading a history book as you apparently think they are just opinion. What I have not heard from the Hoskins supporters is any reasoned or logical debate just silly accusations of Hoskins Phobia. You have made it quite obvious that you are a Hoskins believer Must go Ive got better things to do than argue the toss, G-day Edited October 8, 2011 by Nigel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedyguy 20 Posted October 8, 2011 Where does this fall into the debate? It would seem there is evidence that track motorcycling of a sort took place in England at Canning Town, east london, 20 odd years before Johnnie Hoskins started his efforts at Maitland. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway/message/8300 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
