Maitland Speedway Anniversary

[Ross Garrigan 2]

Ross: you are correct in what you say. Even I know that Johnnie Hoskins didn't introduce speedway to England in 1928. And, yes, things need to be debated and all sides heard.

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

 

Jack, I know your stance on the Hoskins/Maitland December 1923 issue, but I ask you to read the following with an open mind. I'd be interested to read your reactions. I have tried to be brief on three points.

 

 

1). Even before motor cycles raced on the Maitland Show Ground on December 15, 1923, a large promotion (Campbell and Du Frocq) which staged carnivals in Sydney and Melbourne had been in negotiations with the Maitland Show Society concerning their wish to stage motor cycle and cycling carnivals on the Maitland Show Ground during 1923-24.

 

2). Motor cycles raced on the Maitland Show Ground on a total of 15 occasions during the 1923-24 season. On 14 of those occasions they were just one of the attractions at sporting carnivals. On the other occasion, which was promoted by a motor cycle club, motor cycle racing occupied the entire programme. Of those 15 occasions, the above mentioned promoters, Campbell and Du Frocq, staged 6 of them, and various other bodies who rented out the Show Ground staged another 6. The Show Society staged just 3. In other words, the Show Society staged just 3 of the 15 carnivals at which motor cycles raced at the Maitland Show Ground during 1923-24. I ask the question, did Johnnie Hoskins promote weekly motor cycle racing at the Maitland Show Ground during 1923-24? Can the secretary of the Show Society be credited with promoting all the activities which occurred at the Show Ground on the occasions it had been rented out?

 

3). All of the carnivals staged at the Maitland Show Ground during 1923-24 which included motor cycle races, with the exception of the last which was an all-motor cycle carnival, were sporting carnivals. I offer the following extract from a Hunter Valley newspaper (Maitland and Newcastle are in the Hunter Valley):-

 

“The Newcastle Amusement Company has received a good entry for their night carnival on March 16. The motor race of two miles has attracted an Australian record entry for such an event, and at least sixteen motorists will whirl around the arena. Doherty, with his speedy 4½ h.p. motor, has become the recognized single motor champion....”

 

The motor cycle event mentioned was conducted using the qualifying heats and final format. Just what newspaper did that extract concerning motor cycles programmed to race at the said carnival appear in? Note the sentence “The motor race of two miles has attracted an Australian record entry for such an event”.

 

That extract comes from the Newcastle Morning Herald dated March 10, 1906. The carnival was staged at the Newcastle Rugby Football Ground in the Hunter Valley of New South Wales. The carnival featured cycling and motor cycle races.

 

During the very first decade of the 1900s, motor cycles raced on carnival and sports programmes in the Hunter Valley at the Rugby Ground and the Show Ground in Newcastle, and on the cycling track at Cessnock. All of that commenced 18 years before motor cycles raced on the Hunter Valley’s Maitland Show Ground. As I’ve said many times, the sight of motor cycles racing on small tracks in Australia, let alone within the Hunter Valley, was nothing new in December 1923.

 

B.S.F. readers can make your own decision as to the worth of what I have posted. If anyone has questions, I will try to answer them.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

Jack, I know your stance on the Hoskins/Maitland December 1923 issue, but I ask you to read the following with an open mind. I'd be interested to read your reactions. I have tried to be brief on three points.

 

 

1). Even before motor cycles raced on the Maitland Show Ground on December 15, 1923, a large promotion (Campbell and Du Frocq) which staged carnivals in Sydney and Melbourne had been in negotiations with the Maitland Show Society concerning their wish to stage motor cycle and cycling carnivals on the Maitland Show Ground during 1923-24.

 

2). Motor cycles raced on the Maitland Show Ground on a total of 15 occasions during the 1923-24 season. On 14 of those occasions they were just one of the attractions at sporting carnivals. On the other occasion, which was promoted by a motor cycle club, motor cycle racing occupied the entire programme. Of those 15 occasions, the above mentioned promoters, Campbell and Du Frocq, staged 6 of them, and various other bodies who rented out the Show Ground staged another 6. The Show Society staged just 3. In other words, the Show Society staged just 3 of the 15 carnivals at which motor cycles raced at the Maitland Show Ground during 1923-24. I ask the question, did Johnnie Hoskins promote weekly motor cycle racing at the Maitland Show Ground during 1923-24? Can the secretary of the Show Society be credited with promoting all the activities which occurred at the Show Ground on the occasions it had been rented out?

 

3). All of the carnivals staged at the Maitland Show Ground during 1923-24 which included motor cycle races, with the exception of the last which was an all-motor cycle carnival, were sporting carnivals. I offer the following extract from a Hunter Valley newspaper (Maitland and Newcastle are in the Hunter Valley):-

 

“The Newcastle Amusement Company has received a good entry for their night carnival on March 16. The motor race of two miles has attracted an Australian record entry for such an event, and at least sixteen motorists will whirl around the arena. Doherty, with his speedy 4½ h.p. motor, has become the recognized single motor champion....”

 

The motor cycle event mentioned was conducted using the qualifying heats and final format. Just what newspaper did that extract concerning motor cycles programmed to race at the said carnival appear in? Note the sentence “The motor race of two miles has attracted an Australian record entry for such an event”.

 

That extract comes from the Newcastle Morning Herald dated March 10, 1906. The carnival was staged at the Newcastle Rugby Football Ground in the Hunter Valley of New South Wales. The carnival featured cycling and motor cycle races.

 

During the very first decade of the 1900s, motor cycles raced on carnival and sports programmes in the Hunter Valley at the Rugby Ground and the Show Ground in Newcastle, and on the cycling track at Cessnock. All of that commenced 18 years before motor cycles raced on the Hunter Valley’s Maitland Show Ground. As I’ve said many times, the sight of motor cycles racing on small tracks in Australia, let alone within the Hunter Valley, was nothing new in December 1923.

 

B.S.F. readers can make your own decision as to the worth of what I have posted. If anyone has questions, I will try to answer them.

 

Hmm, well I don't think anyone has claimed that Johnnie Hoskins' 1923 Maitland event was the first time motorcyle racing had ever taken place let alone ever at similar shows in Australia... But is it not possible the the style, type and distance of such previous rces were different and that Hoskins changed things to become what later was to be known as 'Speedway'..? You yourself quote that the races in 1906 were on oval tracks but over a two mile distance... That doesn't sound a whole lot like what became Speedway..

[Ross Garrigan 2]

Hmm, well I don't think anyone has claimed that Johnnie Hoskins' 1923 Maitland event was the first time motorcyle racing had ever taken place let alone ever at similar shows in Australia... But is it not possible the the style, type and distance of such previous rces were different and that Hoskins changed things to become what later was to be known as 'Speedway'..? You yourself quote that the races in 1906 were on oval tracks but over a two mile distance... That doesn't sound a whole lot like what became Speedway..

 

It has appeared in print time and again that Johnnie Hoskins invented/started speedway at Maitland in December 1923. That first carnival on December 15, 1923 staged by the Show Society (they didn't stage another until February) included two motor cycle events, one over 2 miles and the other over 4 miles. If you are saying the two mile distance races staged at the 1906 carnival doesn't sound like what speedway became, surely the 2 mile and 4 mile distance races staged on December 15,1923 don't sound a lot like what became speedway either. If the type of motor cycle racing staged at Maitland on December 15, 1923 is referred to in the context as something being invented/started, surely that means it's new. To be new, surely by the definition of the word, it's never happened before.

 

Some may think Johnnie Hoskins organised the motor cycle racing at the carnivals he was involved with at Maitland in 1923-24. He had nothing to do with the organising, a Hunter Valley motor cycle club handled all nominations, acceptances, did the handicapping, and drew up the fields. The club also controlled the racing on carnival night. It wasn't up to Johnnie Hoskins to decide how the races were run. If the type of racing staged at Maitland in 1923-24 is used as the reason to say that speedway was started/invented there, surely it's the motor cycle club who should get the credit, not Hoskins. Using that logic, it's the club which started/invented speedway.

 

I've mentioned that the final carnival staged at Maitland in 1923-24 was promoted by the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club. I have a copy of the newspaper advertisement placed in the Maitland Daily Mercury by the club for that event. At the bottom of the advertisement appears these words: -

 

"ROLL UP AND SUPPORT THE CLUB THAT MADE THE SPORT"

Edited March 23, 2012 by Ross Garrigan

[speedyguy 20]

John, having read this posting I ask the question, "Have you ever been to the library in your country and researched a season's speedway racing?"

 

I have never had a reason to do that. I have only been to the Colindale newspaper library twice - once to research Canadiian riders arriving in the UK in 1938, the other time to do some research on the move by Crystal Palace Speedway to New Cross in the 1933-34 winter, both times through the 'Speedway News' files.

 

Hmm, well I don't think anyone has claimed that Johnnie Hoskins' 1923 Maitland event was the first time motorcyle racing had ever taken place let alone ever at similar shows in Australia... But is it not possible the the style, type and distance of such previous rces were different and that Hoskins changed things to become what later was to be known as 'Speedway'..? You yourself quote that the races in 1906 were on oval tracks but over a two mile distance... That doesn't sound a whole lot like what became Speedway..

 

I can see no problem if a race is described as being over a two-mile distance. It's surely the shape and size of a track that is the criteria. If, as we accept speedway today, the track was oval and a quarter-mike (440 yards or less) then it was on a speedway track. Two-mile distance is surely no problem - it only means the race was over eight laps. In more modern times we have seen races over longer distances staged on British tracks. Of course, if the description two mile distance is not in regard to the racing distance but the size of the track, then I do agree that it could not have been speedway.

Edited March 23, 2012 by speedyguy

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

It has appeared in print time and again that Johnnie Hoskins invented/started speedway at Maitland in December 1923.

 

I wasn't saying that - we have all grown up knowing that claim!

 

What I said was that earlier oval motorcycle racing may not have been quite the same as 'Speedway'.

 

And I take your point that what was served up at Maitland in 1923 bears little resemblance to what Speedway's like now; nor indeed was what happened at High Beech behind the King's Oak in 1928 much like it either...

But then that's like comparing early Football with the modern game.

What there is are links and connections.

 

And in terms of the sainted Johnnie, much of it is about how the sport was branded and promoted by him. He was after all (and they can be no denying this...) a great showman and publicist.

Speedway is a highly stylised form of motorcycle racing and there clearly ARE links back to Hoskins in this specific regard...

[olddon 7]

Hmm, well I don't think anyone has claimed that Johnnie Hoskins' 1923 Maitland event was the first time motorcyle racing had ever taken place let alone ever at similar shows in Australia... But is it not possible the the style, type and distance of such previous rces were different and that Hoskins changed things to become what later was to be known as 'Speedway'..? You yourself quote that the races in 1906 were on oval tracks but over a two mile distance... That doesn't sound a whole lot like what became Speedway..

I wasn't saying that - we have all grown up knowing that claim!

 

What I said was that earlier oval motorcycle racing may not have been quite the same as 'Speedway'.

 

And I take your point that what was served up at Maitland in 1923 bears little resemblance to what Speedway's like now; nor indeed was what happened at High Beech behind the King's Oak in 1928 much like it either...

But then that's like comparing early Football with the modern game.

What there is are links and connections.

 

And in terms of the sainted Johnnie, much of it is about how the sport was branded and promoted by him. He was after all (and they can be no denying this...) a great showman and publicist.

Speedway is a highly stylised form of motorcycle racing and there clearly ARE links back to Hoskins in this specific regard...

 

Thanks for the reply invitation Ross but further comments by Parsloes 1928 Nearly are very much akin to my own views on this subject that there's little further I can add at this point in time.

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

Edited March 23, 2012 by olddon

[Ross Garrigan 2]

Hmm, well I don't think anyone has claimed that Johnnie Hoskins' 1923 Maitland event was the first time motorcyle racing had ever taken place let alone ever at similar shows in Australia...

 

I didn't properly address this point during my previous response to the posting. Yes, there have been claims that no organised racing on small tracks had taken place prior to December 15, 1923 at Maitland. Ian Hoskins is the main culprit. Ian has a complete lack of understanding of the motor cycle racing which had taken place in Australia pre- Maitland. I have provided proof on discussion forums that motor cycles had raced on sports grounds and show grounds around Australia for many years pre-Maitland. Ian Hoskins continues to run me down for "attacking" his father when what I'm doing is trying to tell people what actually happened.

 

About a year ago Ian had a shot at me in which he wrote that the motor cycle racing staged in Australia pre-Maitland was "men racing in fields". All he continues to do is show his complete ignorance of what did happen. Ian has also recently said that when his father started speedway at Maitland in December 1923, there was prize money paid and the racing was controlled by rules and regulations. The truth is that prize money had been paid to motor cycle racers who appeared on Australian carnivals for 18 years. As for his implication that previously motor cycle racing in Australian carnivals took place without rules and regulations - what utter nonsense.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Ross Garrigan

[Ross Garrigan 2]

I have no problem with people giving Johnnie Hoskins credit for what he actually did do for speedway, what I object to is people giving credit to him for what he didn't do. I wouldn't have spent a period of my life researching his involvement in motor cycle racing in Australia pre-war if I didn't admire him.

 

I support the view that speedway in Australia wasn't "invented", but actually evolved. It was fascinating to research that very early small track racing in Australia. Motor cycles started racing on small tracks as a carnival attraction. That final Maitland carnival of the 1923-24 season which was promoted by the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club was a positive step forward. That was an all-motor cycle racing carnival. Then there was what happened at Maitland in 1924-25, something nobody ever seems to want to discuss. That season saw another positive step forward in the evolution of what we now know as speedway. The racing surface had been changed from grass to cinders, other work had been carried out to the track to make it more conducive to motor cycle racing, the meetings staged were either wholly or predominantly motor cycle racing, and for the first time the track at the Maitland Show Ground was called a "speedway". Johnnie Hoskins oversaw all of these changes. What he did at Maitland in the lead-up to, and during, the 1924-25 season is what should be discussed, not what happened the previous season.

It is my opinion that the 1923-24 Maitland season deserves a place in the story of the evolution of speedway in Australia. Firstly we saw Johnnie Hoskins become involved with motor cycle racing on a small track. Then we saw a continuity of opportunities for motor cycle racers to race at the one venue over a short period of time. Motor cycles raced on the Maitland Show Ground a total of 15 times in about 4½ months. That benefited both the competitors and the spectators. The riders could hone their racing craft for competition on a small track, adapt their machinery to that type of racing, or even purchase new machinery better suited to that racing. As for the spectators, the opportunity to witness regular racing created greater interest.

 

I asked John Hyam if he had ever been to a library and researched a complete season of speedway racing. He replied: -

 

"I have never had a reason to do that. I have only been to the Colindale newspaper library twice - once to research Canadiian riders arriving in the UK in 1938, the other time to do some research on the move by Crystal Palace Speedway to New Cross in the 1933-34 winter, both times through the 'Speedway News' files."

 

John, I'll explain the reason I asked the question. When one goes through the old newspapers day by day researching a speedway season, it is the closest thing to actually having been there at the time it was all happening. One gets a feel for what was going on day by day. I spent many hours researching just that one 1923-24 Maitland season, in fact I went further back in time looking for when Johnnie arrived in Maitland and I found what I was looking for. I know where he worked and what he did before he applied for the position at the Maitland Show Ground. When I got to the end of the 1923-24 season I had seen enough to make an informed comment on what had happened during that period. Whether you meant your "tram" story and the possibility researchers may be wrong about the subject of speedway being invented/started by Johnnie Hoskins at Maitland in 1923-24 to be connected, I don't know. I made my decision after a lot of research, not just having read one article in a newspaper.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Ross Garrigan

[raceleader 2]

Why is there so much belief that speedway started or evolved in Australia, possibly as some say on here at the Maitland track in December 1923, a possibility hotly in dispute going by all the messages. But might it not actually have started in the USA in the early 1920s as they seemed to provide many of the big names of the 1920s. I also remember reading that the first speedway meeting was at a track called Pietermaritzburg in the Union of South Africa in 1905. So while we are having much chat on the start of speedway in Australia where would South Africa and the USA fit in the start framework of speedway.

[Ross Garrigan 2]

Why is there so much belief that speedway started or evolved in Australia, possibly as some say on here at the Maitland track in December 1923, a possibility hotly in dispute going by all the messages. But might it not actually have started in the USA in the early 1920s as they seemed to provide many of the big names of the 1920s. I also remember reading that the first speedway meeting was at a track called Pietermaritzburg in the Union of South Africa in 1905. So while we are having much chat on the start of speedway in Australia where would South Africa and the USA fit in the start framework of speedway.

 

As a general comment in response to this posting, at no time have I ever said that speedway didn't go through an evolutionary process in other countries just as I believe it did here in Australia. I certainly believe it did in the USA as I have seen in old Australian newspapers mention of the racing taking place there. By definition, "evolving" means the act or process of unfolding, development, growth..... Surely that can happen in more than one country at the same time. I know researchers have found early motor cycle racing on small tracks in the UK. Was speedway evolving there at the same time it was in Australia, the USA, and more than likely elsewhere?

 

As another general comment in response to this posting, I have never said speedway started in Australia. As I have never researched the early motor cycle racing staged in other countries, I wouldn't be so silly as to make a statement such as that.

 

The answer to the question "raceleader" poses is quite simple I think, many are of the opinion speedway started here in Australia because that is what has appeared in print for such a long time. When that comment appears, it is often accompanied by the Maitland/Hoskins/December 15, 1923 business. I can remember reading that comment many times. Just because something has appeared in print in the name of speedway history, that doesn't guarantee it is historically accurate.

[speedyguy 20]

This Post is a valid reflection on the problems that face historians. You cannot always believe what you read in the Press. A case in point:

When the last tram in London ran between New Cross Gate and Woolwich in the early 1950s, there was a major mistake in the report in the following edition of the 'South London Press.' In a further edition some weeks later, the mistake was corrected on the letters page.

However, over the years when articles have been written about London's last tram, the original error is quoted. Then comes the usual corrections on the letters page - which are ignored when next the original article is quoted.

That can happen in regard to what is now being accepted as gospel in regard to newspaper coverage of the "start of speedway" in 1923. Are we 100 per cent sure they are accurate accounts or are researchers assuming they are?

It's what's known in the newspaper trade as the perpetuating error. West Maitland 1923 - did Johnnie Hoskins start speedway. Or did he NOT start speedway racing? How can we be 100 per cent sure either way?

Whether you meant your "tram" story and the possibility researchers may be wrong about the subject of speedway being invented/started by Johnnie Hoskins at Maitland in 1923-24 to be connected, I don't know. I made my decision after a lot of research, not just having read one article in a newspaper.

 

The reason I gave the tram story was because it is that "essential" for all historical researchers - the primary source. When that is wrong errors will be repeated for perpetuity. There is no way that a researcher can know it was wrong - and subsequent errors and corrections will go unnoticed.

[kennylane 3]

The reason I gave the tram story was because it is that "essential" for all historical researchers - the primary source. When that is wrong errors will be repeated for perpetuity. There is no way that a researcher can know it was wrong - and subsequent errors and corrections will go unnoticed.

 

Are you saying that if there was a primary source error in the Maitland papers in December 1923 and their version of events was wrong, there is still a possibility that speedway's origins can be attributed to Johnnie Hoskins after all?

[Ross Garrigan 2]

Are you saying that if there was a primary source error in the Maitland papers in December 1923 and their version of events was wrong, there is still a possibility that speedway's origins can be attributed to Johnnie Hoskins after all?

 

 

During this debate I made the point that the motor cycle racing staged on the Maitland Show Ground as part of carnivals in 1923-24 was the same as had been happening in Australia for years. Of course there was one exception, the final 1923-24 carnival staged by the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club.

 

I have gone to a lot of trouble to explain that I read the 1923-24 Maitland newspapers day-by-day for all of that season, and even before that season commenced. I based my conclusions having read hundreds of mentions of what was happening at the Maitland Show Ground during that season and what happened during the lead-up to the start of the season. I have read hundreds of earlier Australian newspapers which contained details of the motor cycle racing which had taken place in Australia pre-Maitland December 1923.

 

I know of two other Australian speedway history researchers who have also done what I did and read the 1923 and 1924 Maitland newspapers. Both independently came to the same conclusion I did. A lot of researchers just concentrate on what happened when the motor cycle racing started on December 15, 1923 and don't even research the whole season, just the first carnival or two. An overall assessment of what occurred in 1923-24 at Maitland can't be made from doing just part of the research. In my opinion that is akin to purchasing a novel and reading only a few chapters in the middle of the book. You don't know what happened at the start and you don't know what happened at the end.

 

I know it can be difficult to make a point on an Internet discussion forum, but I have been at pains to make it as clear as possible that we are not talking about the possibility of "an" error being made in the Maitland newspaper, the point is that I know what happened from day to day. I don't base my stand on one or two reports in the newspaper, it's based on day-to-day reporting in that newspaper. Some researchers just look for meeting results, I also look for editorials, advertising, letters to the editor, and what is written during the week, not only what appears on the day the meeting results appear.

 

I can't be clearer than that. If I still have failed to get one of the crucial points across, this exercise has been a gross waste of time on my behalf and it's time for me to move on.

 

All I can do is submit evidence and state a case.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Ross Garrigan

[kennylane 3]

From the Guiness Book of Records 1986:

SPEEDWAY ORIGINS: Motorcycle racing on large dirt track surfaces has been traced back to 1902 in the United States. The first organised ‘short track’ races were at the West Maitland (New South Wales Australia) Agricultural Show in November 1923. The sport evolved in Great Britain with small diameter track racing at Droylsden, Greater Manchester on 25 June 1927 and a cinder track event at High Beech, Essex on 19 Feb 1928.

Edited March 25, 2012 by kennylane

[iris123 20,969]

From the Guiness Book of Records 1986:

SPEEDWAY ORIGINS: Motorcycle racing on large dirt track surfaces has been traced back to 1902 in the United States. The first organised ‘short track’ races were at the West Maitland (New South Wales Australia) Agricultural Show in November 1923. The sport evolved in Great Britain with small diameter track racing at Droylsden, Greater Manchester on 25 June 1927 and a cinder track event at High Beech, Essex on 19 Feb 1928.

Strange.....wonder what they consider a "short track",as West Maitland in 1923 wouldn't really qualify surely?