a4poster 82 Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) A few things: Losing TV Coverage - i.e World of Sport - removed it from the Public spotlight. News of the World race fixing story. Lack of money re-invested into Stadia when at its peak Speedway could have bought many of the grounds they were racing in. Under 'Thatcher' - she encouraged a Society by various means (i.e, share issues, starting up there own Businesses etc) where many no longer considered themselves as Working Class and to good for a working mans sport. Other competition for the leisure market. The Not In My Back Yard syndrome, where everyone wants facilities as long as it is not near them! To many hangers-on & too many people taking money out without putting much back in. Promotors who do not promote - just open the gates and expect people to turn up. Promotors using Speedway as a secondary business. Reliance on an ageing fan base. And perhaps one of the biggest problems for Speedway today has been the uprising of the Green movement. Edited January 18, 2013 by a4poster Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cockney Rebel 97 Posted January 18, 2013 Polish speedway has declined dramatically, they used to claim it was bigger than football but it's nowhere near it now, look at the crowd figures they publish in the Speedway Star results, they are now a fraction of what they used to be, which is probably the reason why some clubs have gone bust and some riders never got paid. It's still a lot bigger than here but it certainly has problems. Some riders have indicated that they would consider the Elite league if there were less fixtures or they could share places (as Darcy Ward suggested). When you have Premier League teams made up almost entirely of overseas riders, something is wrong, other countries discriminate in favour of their own riders and we should do the same. Not wishing to be nasty but perhaps a decline in Poland might make some riders consider GB as a better option at least they know (hopefully) they will be paid regularly. The problem with riders sharing is, will they want twice the money cos they're only doing half the meetings. I'm not totally against the idea if it means some of the big names coming back to these shores but boy it would need to be worked properly and every loophole looked into. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foamfence 2,917 Posted January 18, 2013 Not wishing to be nasty but perhaps a decline in Poland might make some riders consider GB as a better option at least they know (hopefully) they will be paid regularly. The problem with riders sharing is, will they want twice the money cos they're only doing half the meetings. I'm not totally against the idea if it means some of the big names coming back to these shores but boy it would need to be worked properly and every loophole looked into. So a rider doesn't ride here, he is offered a place shared with another rider who doesn't ride here, they both decide to take it as it means more meetings, but not too many more to not be feasible in their busy schedule......And you say "they want twice the money"! Sorry, I don't understand the logic of that. It doesn't really affect riders already here, with the possible exception of Ward and Holder and I couldn't see Poole paying them each what they now get, for half the meetings.Anyway, it's all still just theory. You're not being "nasty", you are quite right and fully entitled to express your opinion. My own opinion is, I wish we would go it alone, I'm sick of every team being full of foreigners and sick of a Grand Prix system where some of the riders are selected on political grounds rather than ability, and where one country has three rounds. I doubt I will make myself popular with that opinion but never mind. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted January 18, 2013 So a rider doesn't ride here, he is offered a place shared with another rider who doesn't ride here, they both decide to take it as it means more meetings, but not too many more to not be feasible in their busy schedule......And you say "they want twice the money"! Sorry, I don't understand the logic of that. It doesn't really affect riders already here, with the possible exception of Ward and Holder and I couldn't see Poole paying them each what they now get, for half the meetings. Anyway, it's all still just theory. You're not being "nasty", you are quite right and fully entitled to express your opinion. My own opinion is, I wish we would go it alone, I'm sick of every team being full of foreigners and sick of a Grand Prix system where some of the riders are selected on political grounds rather than ability, and where one country has three rounds. I doubt I will make myself popular with that opinion but never mind. You are a top man in my book. :approve: 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixy230 120 Posted January 19, 2013 Now to make myself unpopular! In reality Speedway is a minority sport (Even in the UK) Few countries better the UK for speedway Poland? Sweden? Professional riders can only be full time professional if they make their living from Speedway, this means that they ride for x2 x3 teams in as many countries which dilutes there commitment to the team! As Poland seems to pay more over the last few years we can all see where the commitment for many has gone. More riders need to be semi pro! See it as a paid for hobby! I hope/think most started out in Speedway/Grasstrack for fun, entertainment etc The money is not there for everybody to be a full time pro! When riders had a TEAM or maybe at a push x2 teams they used to ride Longtrack/Euro Grasstrack/big Grasstrack meets in the uk for extra money/fun/ego! Now they ride for 3 teams! I honestly feel that we can not afford in EL/PL as many full time riders as there are! (Should it be as there are or as there is?) lol NL = Hobby with some income / expenses PL = Semi Pro + Other work EL = Pro + some semi pro riders Once you get passed the top 50? riders in the world is there realy enough money in the Speedway world to have riders 51 to 200 being pro? In Motor Racing How many Pro drivers in the world? how many amatuers who spend and do it for fun? In Short Circuit Motor racing how many pros in the UK ? how many do it for fun? In Darts how many pros in the world? How many semi pro trying to make it? How many amateurs trying to make it? In Snooker how many pros in the world? How many semi pro trying to make it? How many amateurs trying to make it? The Speedway world is realy not big enough / rich enough to sustain the riders pay! Its only my opinion. M 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
martinmauger 584 Posted January 19, 2013 Now to make myself unpopular! In reality Speedway is a minority sport (Even in the UK) Few countries better the UK for speedway Poland? Sweden? Professional riders can only be full time professional if they make their living from Speedway, this means that they ride for x2 x3 teams in as many countries which dilutes there commitment to the team! As Poland seems to pay more over the last few years we can all see where the commitment for many has gone. More riders need to be semi pro! See it as a paid for hobby! I hope/think most started out in Speedway/Grasstrack for fun, entertainment etc The money is not there for everybody to be a full time pro! When riders had a TEAM or maybe at a push x2 teams they used to ride Longtrack/Euro Grasstrack/big Grasstrack meets in the uk for extra money/fun/ego! Now they ride for 3 teams! I honestly feel that we can not afford in EL/PL as many full time riders as there are! (Should it be as there are or as there is?) lol NL = Hobby with some income / expenses PL = Semi Pro + Other work EL = Pro + some semi pro riders Once you get passed the top 50? riders in the world is there realy enough money in the Speedway world to have riders 51 to 200 being pro? In Motor Racing How many Pro drivers in the world? how many amatuers who spend and do it for fun? In Short Circuit Motor racing how many pros in the UK ? how many do it for fun? In Darts how many pros in the world? How many semi pro trying to make it? How many amateurs trying to make it? In Snooker how many pros in the world? How many semi pro trying to make it? How many amateurs trying to make it? The Speedway world is realy not big enough / rich enough to sustain the riders pay! Its only my opinion. M Thanks, you just saved me a lot typing. F2 Speedway is a good idea, other motorsports have categories according to cost, ability, etc. Nutshell. as above but also: F3 Speedway : Amateurs / NL, power restrictions / standard engines & parts, no tuning. F2 Speedway : PL, as above but more power / slight tuning permitted. F1 Speedway: EL + GPs + SWC, pretty much anything goes - within the current regulations. It isn't for me to say how such regulations would be policed but other motorsports manage to do it.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foamfence 2,917 Posted January 19, 2013 Thanks, you just saved me a lot typing. F2 Speedway is a good idea, other motorsports have categories according to cost, ability, etc. Nutshell. as above but also: F3 Speedway : Amateurs / NL, power restrictions / standard engines & parts, no tuning. F2 Speedway : PL, as above but more power / slight tuning permitted. F1 Speedway: EL + GPs + SWC, pretty much anything goes - within the current regulations. It isn't for me to say how such regulations would be policed but other motorsports manage to do it.... The only problem with that (that I can see) is that riders switching between different levels, would actually need more equipment than now. I think a lower formula would need to be run independently from what ever was classed as above it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattK 3,447 Posted January 19, 2013 Thanks, you just saved me a lot typing. F2 Speedway is a good idea, other motorsports have categories according to cost, ability, etc. Nutshell. as above but also: F3 Speedway : Amateurs / NL, power restrictions / standard engines & parts, no tuning. F2 Speedway : PL, as above but more power / slight tuning permitted. F1 Speedway: EL + GPs + SWC, pretty much anything goes - within the current regulations. It isn't for me to say how such regulations would be policed but other motorsports manage to do it.... Don't the wages/allowances in each league effectively regulate that already? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixy230 120 Posted January 19, 2013 MattK Not with rich daddies paying for more kit than skill level. If there were regulations / limits it would allow at least a (Reasonably) level field where skill would show through over glitter stickers and nice leathers. Then if someone showed potential at NL level and they were approached by a PL outfit there increase in income (potential income) may entice them up a level. (Nobody has to go up a level if they are happy where they are) Their kit would be saleable as its proven and done well (hence being spotted) The next tear would have looser regs (more power/less weight etc) I could go out now and buy loads of decent kit & a van etc (Its not that expensive) but it does not make me a pro speedway rider! Just as now I have a racing car in the garage! But I am far from a pro race car driver! (Far far from being so!!!!!!!!) I pay for it all because I want to! I think all we are saying as that some speedway riders expect to much (Money & sponsorship) maybe far more than their skill status in the sport warrants or can afford! M Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ford 26 Posted January 19, 2013 The only problem with that (that I can see) is that riders switching between different levels, would actually need more equipment than now. I think a lower formula would need to be run independently from what ever was classed as above it. If restrictions were used like carburetor restricters and rev limiters, it would'nt be to hard to upgrade or downgrade the engine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foamfence 2,917 Posted January 19, 2013 If restrictions were used like carburetor restricters and rev limiters, it would'nt be to hard to upgrade or downgrade the engine. True, but if you were then using that engine at a higher level you would probably still be paying tuning costs to keep it competitive at the higher level. It would work though, after a bit of testing and so on (I wonder how the current rev limiter tests are going, anyone hear anything?). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
*JJ 512 Posted January 20, 2013 I could go out now and buy loads of decent kit & a van etc (Its not that expensive) M It's expensive enough. I am helping a young man who wants to be a speedway rider. He spent a couple of years saving up for a bike with a 140cc engine (£400) then for a trailer, which is all he can manage. At this point I said that my car has a towing hitch, so I have been taking him up to Scunthorpe to practice (when the weather is OK!). I am a pensioner; not everybody has a rich father. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonny the spud 2,281 Posted January 20, 2013 The "rich father" line doesn't always ring true. My son has two complete bikes and a third being built up. All secondhand, all built up over a few years of buying and selling equipment, taking loans, finding sponsors and with a lot of help from friends. We're just getting by the best we can. It is an expensive sport but is you're hoping to ride as a job, you need good tools. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixy230 120 Posted January 20, 2013 Jonny the spud I agree with what you say completely. Its an expensive sport and you KNOW that only 50-75 riders in the world make a good living at it. So you have to be very good to make the grade. (Also need some lucky breaks) But we need to remember (I hope) that most young riders start out riding/racing for fun. Most people in Motorsport race bikes or cars as a hobby for fun. Work hard to pay for it and its an expensive hobby. (Some even get divorced over it) tee hee As Speedway goes its not an expensive motorsport. I honestly feel that we can not afford in EL/PL as many full time riders as there are! NL = Hobby with some income / expenses PL = Semi Pro + Other work EL = Pro + some semi pro riders The sport can not sustain 100s of full time pro riders as the spectator revenue is not there!!!!!!!!!!!! If you go to Brandon in the summer to a decent F1 Stox meeting there will be more spectators than speedway, more entrants than speedway, more laps than speedway, more expensive machinery than speedway but all drivers will be amateurs. (The stars might get some start money or some expenses) Some drivers might even pay to enter. The professional Speedway rider must be limited to EL and some PL Riders as the sport can not afford it! If clubs lose money consistantly we will have no future in the UK or even Europe. M Once you get passed the top 50? riders in the world is there realy enough money in the Speedway world to have riders 51 to 200 being pro? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ford 26 Posted February 19, 2013 Me and the misses were just having a debate about the decline of speedway and was there a single thing which started the decline. She said the time when characters started to be repremanded for a bit of playing up, so much so that there are very few characters today. I said bruce penhall retiring, speedway just seem to slowly slide away after he quit. Its not dead just yet but its definatly not thriving. Whats everybody elses single moment? For me leading link forks made a purposeful looking speedway bike look odd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
