Phil Morris In The Star

[Trees 2,814]

That's what makes them top riders, finding the secret to double figure consistency B-)

[T.N.T. 355]

That's what makes them top riders, finding the secret to double figure consistency B-)

 

 

and GONADS that fit in a wheel barrow !!!

 

 

All this thing about Home Advantage to me is a bit of a mind game. If you ride the same track a number of times, you get to know the best lines. Eastbourne and Lakeside are more unsua tracks to the others as the kerb isn't consistant in circumferance. Tracks like Wolverhampton and Poole are symetrical and it's only the fact riders get to know the track knowledge that gives them an advantage.

 

At Monmore Green we have had some great riders over the yeas like Sam Ermolenko, Peter Karlsson, Ronnie Correy and now Fredrik Lindgren and Tai Woffinden. Each can be considered Masters of Monmore during their time but all have different riding styles and ride different lines.

 

We have a part of the track that SKY keep calling the KARLSSON CORRIDOR and say it was named after PK. However PK never really used that part of the track and the first to master that line off turn two was Mikael Max (Karlsson) and since then only David Howe and Freddie could get on it each lap.

 

To me tracks are not home advantage ..... it's the riders and if a home team has a number of guests then they are losing that advantage.

[E I Addio 15,841]

and GONADS that fit in a wheel barrow !!!

 

 

All this thing about Home Advantage to me is a bit of a mind game. If you ride the same track a number of times, you get to know the best lines. Eastbourne and Lakeside are more unsua tracks to the others as the kerb isn't consistant in circumferance. Tracks like Wolverhampton and Poole are symetrical and it's only the fact riders get to know the track knowledge that gives them an advantage.

 

At Monmore Green we have had some great riders over the yeas like Sam Ermolenko, Peter Karlsson, Ronnie Correy and now Fredrik Lindgren and Tai Woffinden. Each can be considered Masters of Monmore during their time but all have different riding styles and ride different lines.

 

We have a part of the track that SKY keep calling the KARLSSON CORRIDOR and say it was named after PK. However PK never really used that part of the track and the first to master that line off turn two was Mikael Max (Karlsson) and since then only David Howe and Freddie could get on it each lap.

 

To me tracks are not home advantage ..... it's the riders and if a home team has a number of guests then they are losing that advantage.

 

That's a good post. If I remember correctly Freddie Lindgren wasn't too hot on the Monmore track when he first arrived but he decided that by being persistent and learning to master it would make him a better rider, and boy didn't it just ! That's the thing with speedway , it is so much a confidence sport, it takes a lot of determination to get on and rider what ever is in front of you.

[SCB 0]

To me tracks are not home advantage ..... it's the riders and if a home team has a number of guests then they are losing that advantage.

It's obviously getting the right riders on the right track. Put 7 Seb Ulameks on Eastbournes track and they'd lose. Put 7 Lewis Bridger no there and they'd rarely if ever lose.

 

As I said above, a few years ago I worked out teams away scores as a % of their away scores (or vice-versa) and found the same teams were top and bottom every year with only a few, generally minor changes. Suggests the track plays some part!

 

Ok it PL and it's a few years old now but it proves a point.

Edited August 14, 2013 by SCB

[Dietbowers 522]

Still think you need to get out more SCB....

[The White Knight 9,039]

Still think you need to get out more SCB....

 

I was just thinking that myself DB.

 

However - I have to say that it is very well worked out. Well done SCB.

[stratton 1,491]

Great post SCB really interesting, without your stats in your opinion do you think Eastbourne and Lakeside are big homer tracks?.Halifax and Exeter i thought had big home track advantages and often they had quite weak teams. I think the visitors riders sometimes struggled there because often riders would only visit once a year.

[SCB 0]

Great post SCB really interesting, without your stats in your opinion do you think Eastbourne and Lakeside are big homer tracks?.Halifax and Exeter i thought had big home track advantages and often they had quite weak teams. I think the visitors riders sometimes struggled there because often riders would only visit once a year.

I'd say generally people perception is pretty spot on. I think most EL tracks have a fair degree of home track advantage with Eastbourne, Lakeside and Peterborough the top 3. Brum, Coventry and Poole probably the bottom 3. TBF, home track advantage is also a disadvantage away. A good team will be a good team over a season and a bad team a bad team regardless of any home track advantage. Edited August 15, 2013 by SCB

[Ommer Mon 381]

Sam Ermolenko, Peter Karlsson, Ronnie Correy ........................ Masters of Monmore ...................................

 

Try telling that to Hamill and Hancock!

[HeathenatOdsal85! 1]

Or Erik Gundersen or Jan O'Pedersen!

[E I Addio 15,841]

I'd say generally people perception is pretty spot on. I think most EL tracks have a fair degree of home track advantage with Eastbourne, Lakeside and Peterborough the top 3. Brum, Coventry and Poole probably the bottom 3. TBF, home track advantage is also a disadvantage away. A good team will be a good team over a season and a bad team a bad team regardless of any home track advantage.

 

So how do you define home track advantage ? I think its on the Malcolm Simmons DVD where Simmo said Exeter was so big and fast that a lot of riders were defeated in their minds before they got on the track. Trevor Hedge said something similar about Hyde Road. Is that home track advantage or is were they just tracks that intimidated certain riders ?

 

You mention both Lakeside and Peterborough as being in the top 3 for home advantage but if you take a rider like Kenny Bjerre, at his best he is very good at whichever of the two he rides, but when he doesn't get his head together he is pretty mediocre at both. Is that the rider or the track ?

 

There are many, factors that affect a track even including the type of material used for the racing surface. Any track curator worth his salt (and there are not that many of them around these days) will be able to prepare a track the way the home riders want, and that I would suggest is one of the main determining factors of home advantage.

 

People throw these expressions around like trick tracks and home advantage but getting a consistent definition of what the terms mean is more difficult.

 

What nonsense? Physically demanding?

 

Big tracks are more physically demanding!

 

According to Stuart Robson, who has a bit of experience in these matters Lakeside is the most physically demanding EL track because of the effort required to turn the bike sharply, but I guess you know more about these things than he does.

[SCB 0]

So how do you define home track advantage ?

Being better at home than away.

 

Why do you think the same teams are towards the top if there no such thing? Obviously it's more than just the track. It's the track, the prep and the riders. Take Craig Cook, his split is 8.5/5.5. So he's quote a bit better at home, if he signed for Lynn (and track he is pants on) would he still have home track advantage? No. But Kings Lynn is generally a track with quite a bit of home track advantage. So the rider and the track have to match for the advantage.

Edited August 16, 2013 by SCB

[stratton 1,491]

 

 

So how do you define home track advantage ? I think its on the Malcolm Simmons DVD where Simmo said Exeter was so big and fast that a lot of riders were defeated in their minds before they got on the track. Trevor Hedge said something similar about Hyde Road. Is that home track advantage or is were they just tracks that intimidated certain riders ?

 

You mention both Lakeside and Peterborough as being in the top 3 for home advantage but if you take a rider like Kenny Bjerre, at his best he is very good at whichever of the two he rides, but when he doesn't get his head together he is pretty mediocre at both. Is that the rider or the track ?

 

There are many, factors that affect a track even including the type of material used for the racing surface. Any track curator worth his salt (and there are not that many of them around these days) will be able to prepare a track the way the home riders want, and that I would suggest is one of the main determining factors of home advantage.

 

People throw these expressions around like trick tracks and home advantage but getting a consistent definition of what the terms mean is more difficult.

 

 

 

According to Stuart Robson, who has a bit of experience in these matters Lakeside is the most physically demanding EL track because of the effort required to turn the bike sharply, but I guess you know more about these things than he does.

Some really good points and you are spot on about Exeter, i knew a rider who hated the place and it had a big steel fence which looked frightening.He probably only rode there about 5 or 6 times in his career and he averaged about 2 there alot of that was because he was mentally beaten before he had started.I don't think it is as revelent now but riders then might say go on a northern tour and ride certain tracks only once in a season.Where as now riders maybe ride somewhere 3 times a year register there gearings set ups (ect)and improve on there next visit to that track.Certainly the smaller tracks are harder to ride Crayford i heard was difficult to ride when i first started going Oxford i think? was the smallest track this was before Eastbourne entered the division 1 fray.Home track advantage is most of it just a MENTAL thing confidence ability?i think so.If somebody was used to riding the say fast natured track like Owlerton obviously it would be a challenge to ride Eastbourne vice versa again with Eastbourne riders finding it hard riding Sheffield.

[E I Addio 15,841]

Being better at home than away.

 

Why do you think the same teams are towards the top if there no such thing? Obviously it's more than just the track. It's the track, the prep and the riders. Take Craig Cook, his split is 8.5/5.5. So he's quote a bit better at home, if he signed for Lynn (and track he is pants on) would he still have home track advantage? No. But Kings Lynn is generally a track with quite a bit of home track advantage. So the rider and the track have to match for the advantage.

 

I am not saying there is no such thing as home track advantage, just that the concept of it is over-rated, and there is a lot of nonsense talks about it, as if the actual track itself was the most crucial factor.

 

If I am understanding your above post correctly I think I more or less agree with you. Obviously certain riders have different abilities on different tracks and by packing your team with riders who can ride that type of track they will be a strong team at home, but I don't think the tracks themselves i.e size and shape give an inherent advantage that can't be overcome, its more to do with the attitude of the riders.

 

I take your point about Craig Cook and there are a number of riders like that, but he is relatively new to the sport and time will tell whether he can learn to ride different types of tracks. I always remember watching Leigh Adams at Lakeside, he would be standing right next to the airfence every time the track was graded then go out and ride were the tractor had been. Travis McGowan on the other hand, in the same meeting would ride the same line race after race, and come last race after race. That's why Leigh was a great rider and McGowan was an also ran, so, yes I agree rider and track have to match for the advantage but riders can learn to conquer tracks they don't like.

 

Some really good points and you are spot on about Exeter, i knew a rider who hated the place and it had a big steel fence which looked frightening.He probably only rode there about 5 or 6 times in his career and he averaged about 2 there alot of that was because he was mentally beaten before he had started.I don't think it is as revelent now but riders then might say go on a northern tour and ride certain tracks only once in a season.Where as now riders maybe ride somewhere 3 times a year register there gearings set ups (ect)and improve on there next visit to that track.Certainly the smaller tracks are harder to ride Crayford i heard was difficult to ride when i first started going Oxford i think? was the smallest track this was before Eastbourne entered the division 1 fray.Home track advantage is most of it just a MENTAL thing confidence ability?i think so.If somebody was used to riding the say fast natured track like Owlerton obviously it would be a challenge to ride Eastbourne vice versa again with Eastbourne riders finding it hard riding Sheffield.

 

Spot on Sidney but its more than a big track/ small track thing. When Lee Richardson was at Eastbourne, he said Lakeside, a very similar size track, was his most hated track in the whole of Europe but he eventually signed for the Hammers because he knew that getting to grips with the track would make him a better rider, and of course history tells us that once he got to grips with it he wanted to come as a full asset.

So you are dead right Sidney its all in the mind, but lets not minimise it, its hell of a mentally tough sport and we should cut riders some slack when they don't get their minds round certain tracks.

[SCB 0]

I take your point about Craig Cook and there are a number of riders like that, but he is relatively new to the sport and time will tell whether he can learn to ride different types of tracks. I always remember watching Leigh Adams at Lakeside, he would be standing right next to the airfence every time the track was graded then go out and ride were the tractor had been. Travis McGowan on the other hand, in the same meeting would ride the same line race after race, and come last race after race. That's why Leigh was a great rider and McGowan was an also ran, so, yes I agree rider and track have to match for the advantage but riders can learn to conquer tracks they don't like.

I think comparing Leigh to Travis is a bit unfair. Leigh would have kicked Travis' backside on any track anywhere in the World as he was so much better. The exception being possibly a track that gave Travis an advantage (probably through familiarity, possibly through confidence as the first time eh went there he fluked a maximum), had that track been Travs home track it would have been home track advantage.

 

An advantage can come from anything and you can make things an advantage. Rarely will an advantage only be available to you. It's not a bad thing either, I know if I was a promoter/manager I'd sign 7 rider who rode my track well and then prep it every week to suit them. That would be an advantage they had over the opposition.