Air Fence Safety Performance - Research?

[skthecat 90]

The only sure fire way to prevent a rider/bike going under the airfence is to bury the bottom 6-8 inches under ground, however, a severe impact on the airfence by a bike, rider, bike and rider will drag force the bottom of the fence out of the ground, and if the bike hits the fence first, the rider if at track level WILL go under it.. or the other rider/s & bike/s will slide under.....

I don't think that issue will ever be avoided just by securing the fence differently/burying the bottom.

What needs doing is placing something at track level, possibly burying below track level as well that will take the secondary impact from a bike/s/rider/s.... behind the airfence but in front of the stock car or old fence, something that will absorb the impact. I don't at the moment have an idea, but there has to be a cheap, no, cost effective way of doing this.. I imagine it needs to be say at least 6 inches below track level and around 14/16 inches above the track level, it would need to be like stiff memory foam, and be around 8 inches thick, it would also need to be seamless or be joined in such a way, it would not come apart at the joins.. it would also need to be flame/fire resistant and not melt.... I have no idea where it would be available from or what the material is, but it needs to be found.... Imagine it would be like having airfence and rubber kickboard then a really stiff mattress part buried behind the airfence in front of the old fence.... especially if its motorway barrier type fencing.....

Wish I could post a diagram/drawing as it looks better than it sounds......

[FTM 146]

The only sure fire way to prevent a rider/bike going under the airfence is to bury the bottom 6-8 inches under ground, however, a severe impact on the airfence by a bike, rider, bike and rider will drag force the bottom of the fence out of the ground, and if the bike hits the fence first, the rider if at track level WILL go under it.. or the other rider/s & bike/s will slide under.....

I don't think that issue will ever be avoided just by securing the fence differently/burying the bottom.

What needs doing is placing something at track level, possibly burying below track level as well that will take the secondary impact from a bike/s/rider/s.... behind the airfence but in front of the stock car or old fence, something that will absorb the impact. I don't at the moment have an idea, but there has to be a cheap, no, cost effective way of doing this.. I imagine it needs to be say at least 6 inches below track level and around 14/16 inches above the track level, it would need to be like stiff memory foam, and be around 8 inches thick, it would also need to be seamless or be joined in such a way, it would not come apart at the joins.. it would also need to be flame/fire resistant and not melt.... I have no idea where it would be available from or what the material is, but it needs to be found.... Imagine it would be like having airfence and rubber kickboard then a really stiff mattress part buried behind the airfence in front of the old fence.... especially if its motorway barrier type fencing.....

Wish I could post a diagram/drawing as it looks better than it sounds......

I understand what you are suggesting but I don,t think there is a need for extra materials as long as the bags are fastened securely below ground level the bag will take the impact approximately 2 to 3 feet up on the front face which IMO will negate the bag lifting up out of the trench .There maybe a small problem of the bike bouncing away from the fence but no more than normal .as always safety is paramount and to negate injuries to riders the assembly crew must be A one in their building of the fence unfortunately this is not always the case as you don,t have enough time or manpower to change over from dogs/stock cars bangers etc etc to Speedway.I don,t know how Doc Bridgett works his miracles at Wolves cos I think they still run dogs Mon afternoon before Speedway at night If you ever read this forum Doc could you enlighten me and others .

Cheers Mick C

[Elephantman 196]

The very fact that people with some experience are talking about the best way to install these things sums up the problem. The manufacturers and BSPA/FIM et al should be in a position to instruct users how to safely install them. But they can't, because they don't know, due to the fact these fences have not been independently and thoroughly tested.

 

The approach to such a key safety item is staggering and borders on negligent!

[Tsunami 10,219]

The very fact that people with some experience are talking about the best way to install these things sums up the problem. The manufacturers and BSPA/FIM et al should be in a position to instruct users how to safely install them. But they can't, because they don't know, due to the fact these fences have not been independently and thoroughly tested.

 

The approach to such a key safety item is staggering and borders on negligent!

In only your opinion.

 

Manufacturers have examined the circumstances and adapted to the requirement. Given the fastenings I mentioned in my previous posting, it would be self explanatory as to how to fasten them to the mesh fence. The approach might be 'staggering and bordering on negligent' only to you, but you ignore the upgrading based on experience and the natural process of evolution. End OF.

[Alan_Jones 1,005]

To anyone that's come into this thread with big ideas and no research, please have a look at the following before making yourselves look sillier than you already are;

 

http://www.airfence.com/airfencespeedwayorig_safest.html

 

http://www.airfence.com/pdf/as.pdf

 

http://www.championproducts.info/TIBS_Manual_for_FIM_2.pdf

 

http://www.championproducts.info/Polyfoam_Brochure.pdf

[Tsunami 10,219]

To anyone that's come into this thread with big ideas and no research, please have a look at the following before making yourselves look sillier than you already are;

 

http://www.airfence.com/airfencespeedwayorig_safest.html

 

http://www.airfence.com/pdf/as.pdf

 

http://www.championproducts.info/TIBS_Manual_for_FIM_2.pdf

 

http://www.championproducts.info/Polyfoam_Brochure.pdf

Thanks for all that. Nite Nite, Elephantman.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Tsunami

[Elephantman 196]

Thanks for all that. Nite Nite, Elephantman.

You really are unbelievable; manufacturers webs sites full of marketing bull rubbish and your convinced. Having read all of this my points are still all valid. Why do you have such an interest in ensuring discussion about safety is suppressed?

 

No independent verification or testing!

[SCB 0]

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned. "risk compensation". Stirling Moss has some interesting things to say about this in his views on modern F1 grand prix racing. In a nutshell; reduce the consequences of a mistake and a complacency sets in that results in more risk taking with the result that you have ended up back at square one. I have had motorcycle get offs before and after the helmet law, only difference was with a helmet I was going a hell of a lot faster.

thats the same theory that says remove air bags from cars bad out metal spikes on the steering wheels.

 

Spikes for steering wheels!!

[bartlett 3]

You really are unbelievable; manufacturers webs sites full of marketing bull rubbish and your convinced. Having read all of this my points are still all valid. Why do you have such an interest in ensuring discussion about safety is suppressed?

 

No independent verification or testing!

Champion Products barriers were independently verified and tested by MIRA (Motor Industries Research Association), who are an independent testing research centre, with facilities to test anything from motor cars, motorcycles and trains to aviation and defence. All testing was done under supervision of FIM Inspectorate. If you go to www.championproducts.info the testing videos are there for all to see. To quote Tsunami "Nite nite elephantman"

[The White Knight 9,039]

thats the same theory that says remove air bags from cars bad out metal spikes on the steering wheels.

 

Spikes for steering wheels!!

 

 

Now THAT could cause a prickly problem. :rofl:

[FTM 146]

To anyone that's come into this thread with big ideas and no research, please have a look at the following before making yourselves look sillier than you already are;

 

http://www.airfence.com/airfencespeedwayorig_safest.html

 

http://www.airfence.com/pdf/as.pdf

 

http://www.championproducts.info/TIBS_Manual_for_FIM_2.pdf

 

http://www.championproducts.info/Polyfoam_Brochure.pdf

I still stand by my idea of dropping the bags into a trench would be a more secure way of ensuring the bags didnt lift on impact The photos you have shown of both systems still have the bags sitting on the track surface and as I stated before a bike hitting the fence at speed at the bottom of bags will invariably lift them up giving virtually no protection for a rider hurtling into fence at speed.I don,t know if your comment about being silly was aimed at me, or other poster, if it was me as I said at the start of my original post I have erected and taken down air fences from the inception so I don,t consider my comments silly in any way and maybe your comment could be retracted.

[Tsunami 10,219]

I still stand by my idea of dropping the bags into a trench would be a more secure way of ensuring the bags didnt lift on impact The photos you have shown of both systems still have the bags sitting on the track surface and as I stated before a bike hitting the fence at speed at the bottom of bags will invariably lift them up giving virtually no protection for a rider hurtling into fence at speed.I don,t know if your comment about being silly was aimed at me, or other poster, if it was me as I said at the start of my original post I have erected and taken down air fences from the inception so I don,t consider my comments silly in any way and maybe your comment could be retracted.

The current design has the bottom of the fence secure to the bottom of the fence with kickboards still utilised as additional support and stiffening. It is tied down now and possibly it wasn't in your days, in addition there now a plastic bung under the fence for the fence to sit on.

[Alan_Jones 1,005]

I still stand by my idea of dropping the bags into a trench would be a more secure way of ensuring the bags didnt lift on impact The photos you have shown of both systems still have the bags sitting on the track surface and as I stated before a bike hitting the fence at speed at the bottom of bags will invariably lift them up giving virtually no protection for a rider hurtling into fence at speed.I don,t know if your comment about being silly was aimed at me, or other poster, if it was me as I said at the start of my original post I have erected and taken down air fences from the inception so I don,t consider my comments silly in any way and maybe your comment could be retracted.

 

If you consider your experience on the subject equates to a lack of research then feel free to be offended.

 

I think we're still in an interim period where APBs are considered to be an accessory rather than an integral part of the structure with promoters/curators reluctant to compromise their precious track surface. I can't see any reason why in the future your idea couldn't be implemented, given enough space, outside the confines of the track itself.

[Starman2006 2,354]

 

Being old I can remember the helmet law coming in, what I can't remember are examples of riders being badly hurt because they were wearing them rather than the previously accepted safety equipment. That argument could only hold water if there were previously no fences in place. The arguments against introducing helmets were all based on individual freedom, there was never any dispute about them being safer.

However riders like Chris Holder and Luke Priest are there as examples that all is not right with the air fence and both would very likely have received far less serious injuries with a solid or mesh fence. To my mind there is absolutely no doubt that in the majority of cases an air fence provides increased safety for riders, however there are also circumstances where other fences are likely to be at least as safe and quite likely better. Air fences at their best are brilliant, poorly installed they can be bloody dangerous.

Great post.

[f-s-p 832]

Just had to drag this up again... I tried quickly to find the acu rule book about APD's. Did not find one. The question is, how long are the airfences in UK speedway valid from new until they have to be re-inspected? Or are they all FIM homologated?