Humphrey Appleby 13,901 Posted November 6, 2013 Sounds awfully like the con-trick perpetrated on the lower division by a failing top league at the end of 1990........ We can hark back to failures or con tricks forever, or try to be realistic about the way forward. The simple fact of the matter is that the different leagues cannot exist in glorious isolation and are always part of the wider ecosystem. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,224 Posted November 6, 2013 Sounds awfully like the con-trick perpetrated on the lower division by a failing top league at the end of 1990........Agree,but the question is will the Pl fall for it again.(I think it was National league in them days,but same thing) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mickthemuppet 976 Posted November 6, 2013 Two leagues of 15 or 16 teams would generate 28-30 fixtures just riding home and away once. Variety and probably enough meetings.So where are all these riders going to come from to make up the 16 teams . That means you would need over 100 riders.Were there that many riders last year in the 2 leagues Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,901 Posted November 7, 2013 So where are all these riders going to come from to make up the 16 teams. A total of 31 teams in 3 leagues ran this season, of which 28 were standalone teams. All you'd be doing is distributing teams over 2 larger leagues rather than 3, which would still allow some riders to double-up. If the top league was pitched closer to the current BPL, which seems likely anyway given the loss of Sky money and generally poor economic condition of the current BEL, then I don't really see there's any issue with the better BPL riders 'moving up'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Islander15 1,061 Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) So in a 2 league system you'd have a 16 year old debutant in the same race as say Fricke, Bunyan, Aarnio or Sneddon for example. How is that fair? Edited November 7, 2013 by Islander15 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,901 Posted November 7, 2013 So in a 2 league system you'd have a 16 year old debutant in the same race as say Fricke, Bunyan, Aarnio or Sneddon for example. How is that fair? Used to be plenty of 16 year olds put into races. I seem to recall Joe Screen and Carl Stonehewer doing okay, amongst others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wjm 261 Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) So in a 2 league system you'd have a 16 year old debutant in the same race as say Fricke, Bunyan, Aarnio or Sneddon for example. How is that fair? Irrespective of league structure, the race format does need looked at to encourage the 16 year olds you speak of. It is time to move away from the days when an inform reserve can take 7 rides IMO, and more importantly an out of form reserve is only given 3. I get that some hate writing, and it is confusing as it is but I like the idea of the last 4 heats being nominated races and the final race being a top scorers race, or something along those lines. 2 lowest scorers of both sides in the first nominated heat, and so on. The final 4 heats having riders of similar talent/performance that level that evening would lead to a better climax to a meeting IMO. Edited November 7, 2013 by wjm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ch958 2,387 Posted November 7, 2013 there's some great ideas on here but the elephant in the room has to be dealt with: what can be done about the star riders Britain's leagues can not afford. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Skid 425 Posted November 7, 2013 The smart money is on three leagues, PL North, PL South, and watered down EL, with Clubs being shuffled round accordingly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePark 2,740 Posted November 7, 2013 The smart money is on three leagues, PL North, PL South, and watered down EL, with Clubs being shuffled round accordingly. So are the likes of Buxton (as an example of NL teams) expected to 'move up an notch' or the whole of the PL expected to 'move down a notch'? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,224 Posted November 7, 2013 there's some great ideas on here but the elephant in the room has to be dealt with: what can be done about the star riders Britain's leagues can not afford.That is the problem,do these riders take a wage cut or move abroad ,trouble is the EL second strings and foreigners probably not good enough to find teams on the Continent on a regular basis to make it pay.Nobody seems to know just how much the so called Elite League manages to survive given the tales woe that comes out from certain Clubs every year yet nothing seems to change and they run the next season.Who's telling Porkies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,901 Posted November 7, 2013 That is the problem,do these riders take a wage cut or move abroad ,trouble is the EL second strings and foreigners probably not good enough to find teams on the Continent on a regular basis to make it pay. Sadly, they'll either have to drop their expectations or become collateral damage if British speedway can no longer afford them. Nobody seems to know just how much the so called Elite League manages to survive given the tales woe that comes out from certain Clubs every year yet nothing seems to change and they run the next season. Some of the losses may be exaggerated, but BEL has been largely run on sugar daddies and the Sky largesse for the past few years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,224 Posted November 7, 2013 Sadly, they'll either have to drop their expectations or become collateral damage if British speedway can no longer afford them.Some of the losses may be exaggerated, but BEL has been largely run on sugar daddies and the Sky largesse for the past few years.Have to agree on both points. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skthecat 90 Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) I'm sure in the 70's and 80's, reserves were reserves... They regularly got 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 & possibly 5/6 on really good nights! ! They got the bulk in heat 2, and a point or 2 from being in races with only 3 finishers or less!! They weren't professional reserves, on stupidly low averages, they didn't go out and have 7 rides, getting 15-21 points a meeting and they were either young uns or not far from retirement type riders. ... Having to have "strong" reserves is probably just as much to blame on bringing on kids as does employing dodgy foreigners!!!!!! Edited November 7, 2013 by Never to old 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted November 7, 2013 Sadly, they'll either have to drop their expectations or become collateral damage if British speedway can no longer afford them. Some of the losses may be exaggerated, but BEL has been largely run on sugar daddies and the Sky largesse for the past few years. What an arrogant Post. I believe that the Elite League is a failed Product. Promoters paying Riders far more than they can reasonably afford. Elite League Finances are in a mess with the odd exception. I hope that the Premier League Promoters look very carefully at any deal with the so called Elite League. The Elite League has been in trouble for years and that is with the SKY money. They will be in penury without it. We don't want them bringing their same problems to the Premier League. There is an old saying - "if it ain't broke - don't try to fix it" - the Premier League ain't broke - so LEAVE IT ALONE!!! The Premier League is working reasonably well at present - I would not like the Elite League Clubs coming in and ruining what is a very decent League. THEY must sort their own problems out. They were happy to take most of the SKY money during the good times - now let them try to manage without it. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites