British Speedway Promoters Meeting

[comebackkings 113]

The basic idea is a good one, but as always it always falls apart when the bones are picked at. Even when they are only riding against each other or second strings I can see teams wanting as many points as possible, so they will get a lot of help from the more experienced riders, probably more with riding lines and machinery than cash, but who knows?

R/R will be eventful, I have no idea how they are going to get around that one, especially if its the number 5 in the averages that is out, perhaps more guests? That will please not many on here.

If it's done properly then the idea will work, what average the reserves have the season afterwards will be interesting, but at least they have done something and should be applauded for that.

The 32 points for the top 5 is a bit of a squeeze though, It will be interesting to see how many 6/7 pointers are left out through that.

 

Its a start, but I just can't get the niggling feeling that its a setup for the South coast to win again out of my head. I wonder why that is?

[Tsunami 10,219]

I think it more likely it was hurriedly knocked-up on Sunday night when the conference finished. Fans used to moan when no information was released for ages, and then the promoters all leaked snippets of information in the meantime, so at least this is some improvement over the olden days.

 

Would agree the press release is rather terse, but there is at least something to go on.

 

Quite agree. The conference usually ends about mid afternoon/teatime, and the Press Officer knocks up an interim statement whilst the delegates drive/fly home. Obviously the actual minutes are drafted and then agreed, before being issued with the full clarification of how things will work and what was agreed. It's the detail that is important not the first headline, always has been and always will be.

[Grand Central 2,654]

It defies logic doesn't it! I think all British reserves is a great idea, but the way they are going about it defies logic.

As a cost cutting measure. It should be quite effective.

Just five mouths to feed. Not six or seven.

 

But to mock it up as a 'fast' track is laughable.

To say it is about 'progression' for these guys when there is NO progression is plain silly.

 

Any guy who is Under 21 with ambition would surely want to get a low end Premier League berth and get as many rides as possible against that sort of opposition and progress up the ranks in that League.

That is progression.

 

What sort of person would equate 'ambition' with getting locked into the 'fixed' position of EL reserve for the year?

Edited November 18, 2013 by Grand Central

[iris123 20,935]

I thought it was stated that these guys could ride in all 3 leagues.Well at least some of them and those that don't ride in the NL, but still qualify, will be riding PL.So next year they could all move up on their PL converted average?Really don't see the problem here.And quite possibly those b grade riders could do another year as a grade reserves?

Edited November 18, 2013 by iris123

[Grand Central 2,654]

OK. I see the point that they 'could' ride in up to three leagues.

If there are enough days in a week.

 

So will we be getting guests in these slots as well?

[E I Addio 15,843]

Because after carefully trouble-shooting this scheme, I've shown in several posts on this thread (along with quite a few other sceptics) how difficult (if not impossible) by mid-season it's going to be drumming up 20 young Brits to fill all the reserves places without doing all of the following ...

 

 

 

 

So basically you are he only one that has thought it through and you must be right because you say so ?

 

I think it is pretty clear to all except those who will never be satisfied, that there are a lot of details yet to be filled in, possibly with some fine tuning /modifications needed. There are probably more questions than answers at the moment, but surely it makes more sense to wait for the complete picture, and certainly it would be daft IMO not to wait and see what Jon Cook has to say next Friday before jumping to conclusions.

 

As has already been said we have got an increased home league programme, up from 14 meetings t0 18. We have got rid of the ridiculous system of facing some teams twice and some teams once, and we have a system for fast tracking young talent for which all details are not yet clear. These are all things that people have been demanding on here for years. We couldn't stay where we were. We are not yet where we need to be but a step has been taken in the right direction. The full picture has yet to evolve but I am amazed that the usual suspects are prepared to condemn it on the basis of relatively limited information.

[iris123 20,935]

That is one of the problems i see here.Especially with some guys who might ride in all 3 leagues.Which team will take priority if these is a fixture clash?

[Arson fire 4,785]

 

Can't agree with you there Arson. It of course does save money, but Poland and Sweden who we are copying, surely did not bring the measures in for that purpose. There has been a bit of a further explanation of how it will work, and yes there will be problems with it's implimentation however riders will not be placed way out of their immediate area. They won't be wobblers, but riders who are very capable and who are deemed to be worthy of fast tracking, to see if they can be brought on quicker. It's worth a try, but I really don't see better suggestions from the floor to improve on it. At least it can help many problems at the same time, which must be a first.

well if its to aid the development of riders, lets see how it pans out, lets see who is the first to drop a rider who is not on the pace, lets see which clubs stand by there youngins when changes need making or can be made....since when has the Bspa been bothered about developing our youngsters? I spoke with an ex team gb manager a few year ago at the fours and even he said then that they wernt Interested in the future... Just the hear and now.

Will these all of a sudden fantastic people at the Bspa reduce admission for the inferior product they are selling do you think??

It could do these riders more harm than good IMO.... We have development leagues and the NL... Are we now saying these arnt working or arnt good enough??... And why has the PL not got these measures in place??.... That will be because its not in the sh!t as much I'd suspect??

[A ORLOV 8,628]

 

 

So basically you are he only one that has thought it through and you must be right because you say so ?

 

I think it is pretty clear to all except those who will never be satisfied, that there are a lot of details yet to be filled in, possibly with some fine tuning /modifications needed. There are probably more questions than answers at the moment, but surely it makes more sense to wait for the complete picture, and certainly it would be daft IMO not to wait and see what Jon Cook has to say next Friday before jumping to conclusions.

 

As has already been said we have got an increased home league programme, up from 14 meetings t0 18. We have got rid of the ridiculous system of facing some teams twice and some teams once, and we have a system for fast tracking young talent for which all details are not yet clear. These are all things that people have been demanding on here for years. We couldn't stay where we were. We are not yet where we need to be but a step has been taken in the right direction. The full picture has yet to evolve but I am amazed that the usual suspects are prepared to condemn it on the basis of relatively limited information.

 

 

 

So basically you are he only one that has thought it through and you must be right because you say so ?

 

I think it is pretty clear to all except those who will never be satisfied, that there are a lot of details yet to be filled in, possibly with some fine tuning /modifications needed. There are probably more questions than answers at the moment, but surely it makes more sense to wait for the complete picture, and certainly it would be daft IMO not to wait and see what Jon Cook has to say next Friday before jumping to conclusions.

 

As has already been said we have got an increased home league programme, up from 14 meetings t0 18. We have got rid of the ridiculous system of facing some teams twice and some teams once, and we have a system for fast tracking young talent for which all details are not yet clear. These are all things that people have been demanding on here for years. We couldn't stay where we were. We are not yet where we need to be but a step has been taken in the right direction. The full picture has yet to evolve but I am amazed that the usual suspects are prepared to condemn it on the basis of relatively limited information.

Any sensible organisation would have ironed out most of these possible problems before announcing them.

[arthur cross 492]

So basically you are he only one that has thought it through and you must be right because you say so ?

If you bothered to read my posts properly, you'll see I've acknowledged more than once the comments of other critics of this "graded young Brits" project, so clearly I'm not the "only one that has thought it through" ... nor would I ever try to adopt such an attitude ... in fact, I'll gladly debate constructively with anyone who's "thought it through" and then decided they like this project because that's what this forum is designed for.

 

Equally, I've never gone as far as saying I "must be right because I say so" ... I've simply outlined many different ways in which the scale of this project seems to me to be so seriously flawed.

 

I also notice you haven't come up with the list of 20 genuine candidates for these places (preferably mid-20's to allow for injuries) ... instead, the best you could do was the line I've quoted above ... not very good at debating, are you ?

[macinter 158]

I should imagine there is a whole lot of talking going on behind the scenes and the real picture will only become clear when a possibly much revised statement is issued. The current version does appear to have been rushed through but I certainly don't think that every speedway promoter is a dunderhead and I would expect them to be discussing at length what effect the proposed changes will have, so perhaps best to wait for the second edition. In almost all areas of life those who make the decisions are constantly ridiculed and speedway racing is no different.

[Tsunami 10,219]

 

Can't agree with you there Arson. It of course does save money, but Poland and Sweden who we are copying, surely did not bring the measures in for that purpose. There has been a bit of a further explanation of how it will work, and yes there will be problems with it's implimentation however riders will not be placed way out of their immediate area. They won't be wobblers, but riders who are very capable and who are deemed to be worthy of fast tracking, to see if they can be brought on quicker. It's worth a try, but I really don't see better suggestions from the floor to improve on it. At least it can help many problems at the same time, which must be a first.

 

 

well if its to aid the development of riders, lets see how it pans out, lets see who is the first to drop a rider who is not on the pace, lets see which clubs stand by there youngins when changes need making or can be made....since when has the Bspa been bothered about developing our youngsters? I spoke with an ex team gb manager a few year ago at the fours and even he said then that they wernt Interested in the future... Just the hear and now.

Will these all of a sudden fantastic people at the Bspa reduce admission for the inferior product they are selling do you think??

It could do these riders more harm than good IMO.... We have development leagues and the NL... Are we now saying these arnt working or arnt good enough??... And why has the PL not got these measures in place??.... That will be because its not in the sh!t as much I'd suspect??

Would be helpful to start on the same point. And as you say "let's see how it pans out". We aren't in 'a few years ago', and things have been happening which you obviously have not seen or heard about. The BSPA have been supporting youth development for a few years now, appointed a couple of officers to run the U21's, running a well supported multiround British Championship for 125, 250 and 500 machines around the country, and part sponsor the Darren and Sharron Boocock trip of Brits to OZ in the winter months. This new arrangement is an additional attempt, trying to imitate both Sweden and Poland in bringing through youth development. More can be done of course, but for you to say "they weren't interested in the future' is just all wrong.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Tsunami

[goldeneagle 15]

I think its a hashed together scheme poorly thought out, open to abuse. No independent body to oversee the "drafting of the National League riders. For several seasons we've put up with hashed out rule changes, averages reduced to cut costs etc and attendances continued to decline. These changes wont bring back the lost punters indeed except the die hard fans on this forum more will walk away. I'm an Eastbourne Supporter we've put up with Bobs threat of closure for years now been very close to it once so I feel sad for the Peterborough Panthers Fans that through no fault of theirs their club has gone, I sincerely hope that they find a buyer.

[pandorum 1,259]

I think the BSPA press office official who made the BSPA statement should be sacked immediately. A major PR disaster.

Come on be fair we have all been drunk before on a Sunday and had to cobble together a good reason why we will be late Monday morning. This is the BSPA equivalent of that.

Some good points made here by fans who actually have a bit of an idea of how difficult this very worthy notion to blood youngsters will actually be to implement.

When the BSPA sober up and realise just what it is they propose we may well see some backtracking.

They haven't got a clue these imbiciles and this hasty cost cutting excercise may well fall at the first hurdle that of actually FINDING youngsters to fill 20 berths for #6 and #7

If they paid more attention to fans they might learn something.

But panic must have set in when they realised they have pretty much bankrupted the sport with thier petty ineptitude.

Basically we now have five man teams and novices at reserve for what £17? Will they dare raise prices more than that?

It's the most worthy idea these clowns have had for decades but they have done it out of sheer panic rather than well thought out forward thinking and as such made a complete arce of themselves.

No change there then

 

 

 

 

I think it is pretty clear to all except those who will never be satisfied, that there are a lot of details yet to be filled in, possibly with some fine tuning /modifications needed. There are probably more questions than answers at the moment, but surely it makes more sense to wait for the complete picture, and certainly it would be daft IMO not to wait and see what Jon Cook has to say next Friday before jumping to conclusions.

 

A very fair point but surely it begs the question why the BSPA have decided on such a radical solution without having any idea how to actually achieve it. Do these youngsters know they will be asked to ride in the EL next year. Are any of them capable of taking up such an offer. A system of progression NL/PL/EL is a great idea but this is such a radical step that surely those expected to fulfill the BSPA aspirations should be ready to step in and fill the huge breach between the leagues.

I think fine tuning is a euphemism for sheer panic once the season draws near.

 

It's something that fans here have been advocating for years. I have blathered on about it myself here. But perhaps it is a step TOO far to expect NL kids to fill EL rosters without PL experience first.

Maybe a season where this was implemented at PL level with maybe EL a year later.

To be fair to the lemmings in charge it's not easy to produce a production liine of new talent from scratch and existing programmes are apparently helping to bring young lads on a bit. But maybe this will be too much for youngsters and be detrimental to thier progress rather than help them.

 

The idea that it is some master plan to help youngsters is of course laughable and nobody here will be fooled by it. It's to save money as it's all been frittered away on those that will dump the EL for the more lucrative leagues unless they need some laps at the end of the season like Hancock.

But the sad part is it should have BEEN a master plan with a definite idea how to achieve it and some sort of stepped progression for young riders to achieve.

We will see if this idea will work and what effect it will have on upandcoming speedway riders.

Let's hope for thier sake it does work.

I think we all back the sentiment simply are not convinced of the BSPAs commitment to it.

Edited November 18, 2013 by pandorum

[Arson fire 4,785]

 

 

Would be helpful to start on the same point. And as you say "let's see how it pans out". We aren't in 'a few years ago', and things have been happening which you obviously have not seen or heard about. The BSPA have been supporting youth development for a few years now, appointed a couple of officers to run the U21's, running a well supported multiround British Championship for 125, 250 and 500 machines around the country, and part sponsor the Darryl and Sharron Boocock trip of Brits to OZ in the winter months. This new arrangement is an additional attempt, trying to imitate both Sweden and Poland in bringing through youth development. More can be done of course, but for you to say "they weren't interested in the future' is just all wrong.

it wasn't me that said that?? It was what I was told.

I have heard about all if the above that you mention, but there is a massive difference to riding in the EL from that.... And even EL from NL.....where is the provision beyond these championships...

What is done for a youngster just breaking into the NL... (Genuine question) and were all of the emerging british youngsters given an equal shot of going on the boocock trips or the same select few for a few year??

If it was for the benefit of youngsters then logic says that the natural progression is NL, PL then EL surely??

You having been in the inner sanctums of the Bspa obviously no more than me and I bow to your superior knowledge..... But we've seen the likes of this before and it's sharply been dispatched with when it doesn't work or suit..

In your opinion then ( and you should know) will this enhance our younger riders by riding against their own ilk anymore than what they do in the NL??.

You can't blame fans for being cynical dave, ESP those who've followed the sport for years.