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dantodan

British Speedway Promoters Meeting

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With respect, I think it does; he doesn't say the BSPA have introduced this. It is an Elite League initiative. He states, "I am looking forward to going into more details of the season ahead at our fans’ forum". That is details of the season ahead not details on this initiative.

 

I don't know what they do in Sweden or Poland but are we saying that they take (what are fundamentally) junior riders and throw them in to compete with the big boys? I hold the view that this is an ill thought out but money saving scheme. I hate to think what the TV executives will make of it!

 

Try reading what has been said and you will see the answer is no. And no they will not be wobbly junior riders either.

 

I actually find this a bit condescending.

Perhaps we should all just shut up and accept that we know nothing, and others will decide what's good for us.

 

I don't think anybody is trying to be condescending, but it would help if posters expressed the like/dislike on what is being said after at least reading this thread. Some obviously haven't, and already made their mind up regardless, but that's nowt new.

Edited by Tsunami
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Why will they get beaten every week, they have two reserves races against the other reserves and they still get to ride in other leagues (all three if they get the chances and accept them).

If you read my post again you will see that I am saying that if you are allocated two weak or poorly funded riders it could cost your team victories on the track; what they are doing in other leagues is not relevant to this proposal. How are you going to feel if your team are losing meeting by a couple of points and its down to the novices not performing? Who you going to blame? Are you going to keep paying your £15 or whatever every week?

 

If the NL riders end up only racing each other it is unfair on the paying public and the top five; if they end up racing against the top five it is unfair on them and the paying public. This is a no win situation for the public and the riders.

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On the face of it the idea ticks a number of boxes.It helps cut costs.It makes it easier for clubs to keep the top boys in the UK.Which makes the league more attractive to the TV companies.The 20 young Brits should develop and help the sport nationally.Gets rid of the low average foreigners!The devil will be in the detail (as Tsunami mentions)What riders will qualify for these positions? (and how will it affect their positions with other clubs in other leagues)Who goes where?What changes will take place to the match format?How will Matt Ford come out of it at an advantage?Can we trust the powers that be to implement this fairly and appropriately????

I agree with almost everything you say here.

Including your scepticism about implementation.

 

I think that the promoters are taking the tried and tested route of watering down the top league to cut costs whilst maintaining everyone's option to continue to pay for top men as well.

It's difficult to see what other option could have been adopted.

 

I'm less sure that this will offer one iota of 'fast tracking'.

But using the PR spin of that in negotiations with Sky may be something Russell can work with.

 

It will be interesting to see how the whole thing operates over the season.

 

We should remember the occasion another similar method was last used.

In the eighteen heat format of 1993 there were two juniors in protected places in each team.

And remember how getting those two riders 'right' won the league for Belle Vue.

The untried hopefuls thrown in at the start had been swapped for Smith and Schofield by mid season.

It transformed the Aces chances.

 

Come the decider at Wolverhampton - truly the best 'play off' before they had even been created - and the Aces duo trounced their opposition counterparts.

And the League was won.

Edited by Grand Central

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Why do so many people assume they know more than the BSPA about Speedway? You may not like the way they do things but it's fact that they are running tracks while the vast majority of us are looking in as outsiders with varying degrees of knowledge. There are very, very few on here who know even the basics of running a Speedway track and maybe one or two who have the in depth knowledge of the promoters.

 

You/we may not like their decisions but given the fact that they have all the required information to arrive at a decision and non of us do it seems a bit daft to just assume they are stupid.

 

I wouldn't say stupid, I would say out of touch or perhaps even incompetent. If anyone tried to run a business like the BSPA run British speedway it would inevitably crash and burn.

 

The fact of the matter is massive marketing opportunities to support the growth of British speedway are dismissed entirely due to the ignorance of outdated and out of touch promoters. Diluting our leagues is not the right way to support growth, it is a last ditch effort to retain current supporters. And it won't work.

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If you read my post again you will see that I am saying that if you are allocated two weak or poorly funded riders it could cost your team victories on the track; what they are doing in other leagues is not relevant to this proposal. How are you going to feel if your team are losing meeting by a couple of points and its down to the novices not performing? Who you going to blame? Are you going to keep paying your £15 or whatever every week?

 

If the NL riders end up only racing each other it is unfair on the paying public and the top five; if they end up racing against the top five it is unfair on them and the paying public. This is a no win situation for the public and the riders.

Its bad enough now when one of your top 5 gets injured and replaced by reserve in vital races - your team is obviously weakened. It'll be even worse now :/

 

There really needs to be a supplementary reserve from the top 5 in these instances, or an 'instant R/R' rule or something .. especially as you'd be able to have it in the very next meeting anyway!

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Its bad enough now when one of your top 5 gets injured and replaced by reserve in vital races - your team is obviously weakened. It'll be even worse now :/

 

There really needs to be a supplementary reserve from the top 5 in these instances, or an 'instant R/R' rule or something .. especially as you'd be able to have it in the very next meeting anyway!

 

I agree entirely. There is not a chance in hell that a NL/PL standard reserve will beat the likes of Darcy Ward in any Elite League race! Unless it is gifted to them through engine failure or tapes exclusion. Boring boring boring.

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Its bad enough now when one of your top 5 gets injured and replaced by reserve in vital races - your team is obviously weakened. It'll be even worse now :/

 

There really needs to be a supplementary reserve from the top 5 in these instances, or an 'instant R/R' rule or something .. especially as you'd be able to have it in the very next meeting anyway!

 

Thought it had been mentioned that there was now to be an instant R/R for injured riders?

 

Makes good sense to me,

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I agree entirely. There is not a chance in hell that a NL/PL standard reserve will beat the likes of Darcy Ward in any Elite League race! Unless it is gifted to them through engine failure or tapes exclusion. Boring boring boring.

Youre right because they wont ride against the No1 in any of their heats!!
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Do Sweden and Poland have Nl standard riders at reserve in there league ? do the reserves get picked by them by the league ? I keep hearing it's the same system and how good it's been but is it ? and is it really the reason why more fans watch Speedway league matches in these places .

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Thought it had been mentioned that there was now to be an instant R/R for injured riders?

 

Makes good sense to me,

Not to me, it would be wide open to abuse!

 

Out-of-form rider is "injured" so that an in-form R/R rider can be used.

 

No thanks.

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Youre right because they wont ride against the No1 in any of their heats!!

I expect once rr kicks in then your going to see these Nl riders taking on a lot of the top riders .

Edited by orion
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If anybody truly believes British reserves are to help rebuild British speedway or provide a better experience then you are sorely mistaken.

 

The only reason we are using British reserves is because they are cheap and have nowhere else to ride. This will allow us to cut down on international riders who do not want to race such a large British schedule and in turn allows the promoters to stage more meetings in a year. This is a misguided approach to generate more revenue through less overheads and additional fixtures. It will not work.

 

I am completely blown away by the ignorance of out of touch promoters who seem to think the internet can be ignored. When will they learn that GROWTH is key and not RETENTION! If online marketing was properly utilized it would not take long before we would have higher quality racing, higher attendances and lower ticket prices.

 

So many businesses have went from zero to hero simply by using the internet to it's full potential. 75% of the UK is connected to the internet daily and it doesn't cost a penny to generate hype. There are so many missed opportunities that are slowly killing the sport.

 

Why on earth anybody would think Sky is better for speedway than internet marketing I simply do not understand. People do not just turn on speedway to find out what it is!

Edited by Synikalle
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Not disputing the need for more/better online marketing, but I would be interested to know exactly how that would produce 'higher quality racing'??

 

Would the rider in 2nd, 3rd or 4th place be tweeting his partner away in the lead to slow down a bit? :wink:

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The BSPA are the promoters of EL and PL promotions. The Chairmen of stand alone NL teams are 'affiliated' to the BSPA, usually under the direction of Peter Morrish.

 

Just a few points to correct some wrong assumptions above.

 

The idea may be new to the UK, but it already works well in both the Polish and Swedish leagues. We are copying something that works for leagues that are more successful than us at the moment.

Riders will not be NL only, as they will be a mix of the better young riders in both the NL and PL. John Cook has already explained this in his interview in the SGP site.

Riders wil be riding similar standard riders in most of their races, so they will not be riding above other riders as much as they do in say the PL. A rider may be racing above their level of ability but no more than any other rider who takes a step up in either the EL, PL, NL or the JDL's. It's how riders develop and always will be.

It's already been stated that the 20 or so riders would be allocated with respect to where they are based.[/QCCB9quote]

 

I can see your point about Sweden/Poland Dave but I have reservations. If you look at the standard of the young reserves in Sweden, e.g. Anton Rosen and Jacob Thorsell and compare them with the majority of the NL riders there is a big gap in quality and experience. Even our very top young kids like Lewis Kerr are a little way behind and Lewis is probably the exception, he's not a typical NL rider. Would Lewis have progressed as much this season had he ridden at reserve all year in the EL and not in the PL? I doubt it and I bet most of these 20 NL riders probably won't get PL places next year.

 

I would like to have seen this introduced into the PL first to get that natural progression. I fear pushing these lads into the EL in this manor is a step too far for most. They can't ride against each other in every heat. The EL is riddled with R/R historically so there are bound to be occasions where they have to take 5 or 6 rides. I don't see what they will learn from riding against typical EL riders before they can walk.

Edited by NJC71
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I wish people would take the trouble to read the latest posts from those 'in the know' eg Tsunami, amongst others.

 

Also the statement on www.speedwaygp.com by Jon Cook gives more detail and fills in some of the gaps in the original (rushed!) headline statement issued Sunday.

Just to clarify this point. In this case I am not 'in the know' as the idea came as a bit of a surprise to me as well as others. What I have done is read, read again and enquire about the proposal, and formed an opinion based on those facts and what has been explained. Perhaps if others did likewise, this might help them to understand what is being proposed and being discussed.

 

Whilst this is reducing the overall strength of the British League teams, one has to ask whether now might have been the time to ditch the top riders, and get the then EL a lot nearer to the stable strength of the PL, and consider a serious intention of promotion and relegation. The promoted team would of course need help in it's first year up, but without the top riders and their wages, and the introduction of fast track young Brits, that might be a possible basis for the sport for the next few years.

 

Synikalle has stated that the fast tracking was "to lower costs", but would also get rid of poor foreign riders. Can anybody really disagree with that objective/intention.

Edited by Tsunami
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