Crump99 4,474 Posted February 9, 2014 The one thing that most disabled people that I know share, is an ambition or a desire to be treated equally as "normal" people. They don't want pity or sympathy, just dignity and respect for them as human beings as much as anyone else gets. I think that all this "compassion wars" where everyone on here tries to impress everyone else by how charitable they are (with other people's money) and how outraged they can be by others not sharing their so-called values, shows no respect whatsoever to the people who they are debating about and is nothing more than an ego trip to try to impress others on here of what "nice" people they are. Well if you are so nice, then maybe instead of pontificating about what is a decent thing to do or not, in an effort to shame your promoter into discounting their prices for the disabled, why don't you stand outside the turnstiles of your track and pay these people in out of your own money? That'll be real charity. And don't worry, I think you'll find that most disabled people will decline your offers as they will have more dignity and self-respect for themselves than the respect that you are showing them. So you won't be too far out of pocket! You're not related to Tsunami are you? He's keen on fans funding their own opinions. Just remember that in every able bodied person there is a disabled person waiting to get out. Pray God it doesn't happen to you. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Star Lady 5,400 Posted February 9, 2014 Can I as a carer put forward my point of view, and it is a personal one I don't speak on behalf of anyone else. I've visited the vast majority of tracks around the country in my time. No two are the same regarding facilities for the disabled and few if any advertise any concessions for either the disabled person and/or the carer. Polite enquiries via email or here on BSF usually provide the information tho. Until a track can provide the same experience for the disabled fan as it can for the able bodied, it is right IMHO for some concession to be made. Whether that be free admission for a carer or discount for the disabled fan and/or the carer is up to the promoter. Sadly this concession will be abused by some, as in all things in life, and it means that some promoters may well be suspicious of providing concessions. That I can completely understand, especially if they are only landlords and therefore have little or no say over and facilities that are provided. I'm probably going to be jumped on here but I would guess that very few disabled fans take carers who have no interest in the sport. The majority of carers will have at least a passing interest. So is it right they get concessions? In my view yes BUT I don't think it's necessarily the case that they should always get free admission. It depends on how much the carer has to do to ensure the disabled person can access facilites and that varies enormously from track to track. If it's simply a matter of being there for support or to push a wheelchair along flat access/ramps etc, that doesn't entail as much as negotiating steps/ narrow doors/grass banks and 1 in 3 hills, so maybe reduced admission rather than free would be fair. I have been to quite a few meetings around the country as a carer that I would not have gone to had I had to pay full admission, so those promoters gained the admission of the person I was escorting, who could not have attended alone. On the other hand I've also had free admission to meetings I would have gone to anyway, so it's really swings and roundabouts. 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arson fire 4,785 Posted February 9, 2014 Can I as a carer put forward my point of view, and it is a personal one I don't speak on behalf of anyone else. I've visited the vast majority of tracks around the country in my time. No two are the same regarding facilities for the disabled and few if any advertise any concessions for either the disabled person and/or the carer. Polite enquiries via email or here on BSF usually provide the information tho. Until a track can provide the same experience for the disabled fan as it can for the able bodied, it is right IMHO for some concession to be made. Whether that be free admission for a carer or discount for the disabled fan and/or the carer is up to the promoter. Sadly this concession will be abused by some, as in all things in life, and it means that some promoters may well be suspicious of providing concessions. That I can completely understand, especially if they are only landlords and therefore have little or no say over and facilities that are provided. I'm probably going to be jumped on here but I would guess that very few disabled fans take carers who have no interest in the sport. The majority of carers will have at least a passing interest. So is it right they get concessions? In my view yes BUT I don't think it's necessarily the case that they should always get free admission. It depends on how much the carer has to do to ensure the disabled person can access facilites and that varies enormously from track to track. If it's simply a matter of being there for support or to push a wheelchair along flat access/ramps etc, that doesn't entail as much as negotiating steps/ narrow doors/grass banks and 1 in 3 hills, so maybe reduced admission rather than free would be fair. I have been to quite a few meetings around the country as a carer that I would not have gone to had I had to pay full admission, so those promoters gained the admission of the person I was escorting, who could not have attended alone. On the other hand I've also had free admission to meetings I would have gone to anyway, so it's really swings and roundabouts. good post, but from experience carers support people to places because the disabled person needs support, ive many volunteers who go many places that they have absolutely no interest in, they do it to enable others to meet their wishes, beliefs, religion and hobbys... Not for personal gain, yes there are a few things in common between carers and clients but mostly not. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Star Lady 5,400 Posted February 9, 2014 good post, but from experience carers support people to places because the disabled person needs support, ive many volunteers who go many places that they have absolutely no interest in, they do it to enable others to meet their wishes, beliefs, religion and hobbys... Not for personal gain, yes there are a few things in common between carers and clients but mostly not. I can only go from my own experience and I would hazard a guess that the majority of carers I see at speedway tracks are family/friends etc. Are we talking about volunteer carers or paid carers? If volunteers, yes they should get free admission in those cases where they have no interest in the sport. If however we are talking about paid carers, well they are being paid aren't they so shouldn't matter whether they are at a speedway meeting or a tea party. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arson fire 4,785 Posted February 9, 2014 I can only go from my own experience and I would hazard a guess that the majority of carers I see at speedway tracks are family/friends etc. Are we talking about volunteer carers or paid carers? If volunteers, yes they should get free admission in those cases where they have no interest in the sport. If however we are talking about paid carers, well they are being paid aren't they so shouldn't matter whether they are at a speedway meeting or a tea party. i use a range of volunteers, befrienders, advocates and paid carers.... Even so the paid carers wouldn't be paying out of their own pocket, the client would have to pay for themselves and for the carer.... The carers ( paid) will go wherever and whenever that goes without saying....but they shouldn't be expected to pay to support a person to wherever and that's my point really.... The cost to the disabled person needing a carer. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Can I as a carer put forward my point of view, and it is a personal one I don't speak on behalf of anyone else. I've visited the vast majority of tracks around the country in my time. No two are the same regarding facilities for the disabled and few if any advertise any concessions for either the disabled person and/or the carer. Polite enquiries via email or here on BSF usually provide the information tho. Until a track can provide the same experience for the disabled fan as it can for the able bodied, it is right IMHO for some concession to be made. Whether that be free admission for a carer or discount for the disabled fan and/or the carer is up to the promoter. Sadly this concession will be abused by some, as in all things in life, and it means that some promoters may well be suspicious of providing concessions. That I can completely understand, especially if they are only landlords and therefore have little or no say over and facilities that are provided. I'm probably going to be jumped on here but I would guess that very few disabled fans take carers who have no interest in the sport. The majority of carers will have at least a passing interest. So is it right they get concessions? In my view yes BUT I don't think it's necessarily the case that they should always get free admission. It depends on how much the carer has to do to ensure the disabled person can access facilites and that varies enormously from track to track. If it's simply a matter of being there for support or to push a wheelchair along flat access/ramps etc, that doesn't entail as much as negotiating steps/ narrow doors/grass banks and 1 in 3 hills, so maybe reduced admission rather than free would be fair. I have been to quite a few meetings around the country as a carer that I would not have gone to had I had to pay full admission, so those promoters gained the admission of the person I was escorting, who could not have attended alone. On the other hand I've also had free admission to meetings I would have gone to anyway, so it's really swings and roundabouts. So is Star Lady going to be called names for saying careers should not get free entry? FWIW, I think shes spot on, some discount maybe but free? As for the person who asked am I really comparing a disabled person to a child, then yes. I'll throw a question back at the same person, do you think it's a good idea to let kids go off to speedway on their own? Because I don't. What if it's a child thats disabled? Does being a child trump being disabled or vice-versa? Free entry for having a disabled kid or have to pay as you're a parent and "that's just parenthood"? Edited February 9, 2014 by SCB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chucks 63 Posted February 9, 2014 So is Star Lady going to be called names for saying careers should not get free entry? FWIW, I think shes spot on, some discount maybe but free? As for the person who asked am I really comparing a disabled person to a child, then yes. I'll throw a question back at the same person, do you think it's a good idea to let kids go off to speedway on their own? Because I don't. What if it's a child thats disabled? Does being a child trump being disabled or vice-versa? Free entry for having a disabled kid or have to pay as you're a parent and "that's just parenthood"? google,posabilty.magazine. scroll down to the third item regarding the barbican theatre york. this is a fresh case only 3 days ago. look forward to any comment,s Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arson fire 4,785 Posted February 9, 2014 google,posabilty.magazine. scroll down to the third item regarding the barbican theatre york. this is a fresh case only 3 days ago. look forward to any comment,s http://posabilitymagazine.co.uk/2014/02/06/theatre-admits-discriminatory-pricing-policy-towards-disabled-theatre-goers/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chucks 63 Posted February 9, 2014 http://posabilitymagazine.co.uk/2014/02/06/theatre-admits-discriminatory-pricing-policy-towards-disabled-theatre-goers/ thanks arson http://posabilitymagazine.co.uk/2014/02/06/theatre-admits-discriminatory-pricing-policy-towards-disabled-theatre-goers/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John44 3 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Can I ask which track that was? I'm sure we (King's Lynn) allow free entry to registered carer's When visiting Kings Lynn I paid concession rate as did the carer which is more than generous. The track with the free carer don't advertise it for fear it being abused. Just tried to PM you Screamer but you cant receive any more! Edited February 9, 2014 by John44 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chucks 63 Posted February 9, 2014 When visiting Kings Lynn I paid concession rate as did the carer which is more than generous. The track with the free carer don't advertise it for fear it being abused. how can it be abused the law is the law., on this case was not a lawyer ,but a barrister. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted February 9, 2014 As for the person who asked am I really comparing a disabled person to a child, then yes. I'll throw a question back at the same person, do you think it's a good idea to let kids go off to speedway on their own? Because I don't. What if it's a child thats disabled? Does being a child trump being disabled or vice-versa? Free entry for having a disabled kid or have to pay as you're a parent and "that's just parenthood"? Tbh, having a child is a choice.Having a disabled child or s disability is generally not. I think thats a fundamental difference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crump99 4,474 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) So is Star Lady going to be called names for saying careers should not get free entry? FWIW, I think shes spot on, some discount maybe but free? As for the person who asked am I really comparing a disabled person to a child, then yes. I'll throw a question back at the same person, do you think it's a good idea to let kids go off to speedway on their own? Because I don't. What if it's a child thats disabled? Does being a child trump being disabled or vice-versa? Free entry for having a disabled kid or have to pay as you're a parent and "that's just parenthood"? She not saying that though, she's just pointing out, based on here experience, the difficulties & possible options for dealing with the situation. And yes, comparing a child to a disabled person is ridiculous. Ever thought of applying to work at the DWP. Edited February 9, 2014 by Crump99 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted February 9, 2014 google,posabilty.magazine. scroll down to the third item regarding the barbican theatre york. this is a fresh case only 3 days ago. look forward to any comment,s Tbh, having a child is a choice. Having a disabled child or s disability is generally not. I think thats a fundamental difference. You're all looking at this backwards. I've asked if a child goes to speedway, should the parents have to pay. Not if a parents goes to speedway should they pay for their child. Not if a disabled person goes should he pay. 5 year old Johnny rocks up to the York Barbican Theatre and says, "I'd like to pay for my ticket please, and my carer (mother) would like a free ticket because I can't go on my own I'm only 5". Will the Barbican Theatre agree to this? Because if not, little Johnny is being victimised as a child. Just one of the many ways the UKs equality and diversity laws are a load of bollocks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Star Lady 5,400 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) how can it be abused the law is the law., on this case was not a lawyer ,but a barrister.Of course it can be abused. Scenario - Johnny is disabled but can manage alone if necessary. Johnny has a mate who also likes speedway and pays to attend. Johnny says to his friend "come as my carer and get in free, we'll split the cost of my admission". Result 2 attendees but only one pays. Loser - the promoter and those disabled folk who genuinely need a carer. Don't say it doesn't happen, it does. If the law says a carer must always be admitted free then the law is an ass! Edited February 9, 2014 by Star Lady 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
