Crazy robin 2,963 Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) I echo the comments of 'Liam Gallagher Fan', a superb post and thanks for taking the time to work these numbers out. Thanks MP! Am I right in thinking that if for example Poole do not replace Lee Smart (2.15 Lee Smart (14) Poole 4 13 6 1 7) before the re-ranking of the riders, they will only be able to replace him with another rider with a lower ranking (of which there are none!) or with a rider who has yet to race as a draft rider? I hope this is the case as it would mean that teams have to persevere with the young lads when they go through a rough patch, and not just dump them at the first opportunity. But Poole are rumoured to be dropping him before the re-ranking anyway so it doesn't work that they're given time?. Edited April 25, 2014 by Crazy robin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,616 Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) It's cool if they do as it will save me from doing them. I only put them up (self-compiled in a hurry) as i noticed there were a few asking in various threads as to how riders were performing average wise, also on reflection i was curious myself too. I'm pretty sure nobody on these forums waits until a monthly publication of averages or league tables etc and duly refrains from comment or observation on a subject until then. Imagine not being able to point out that your team has moved up a position in the table until the BSPA updates their league tables, so not sure what your double exclamation mark is about. Did you want me to give a list after just one meeting and a mere four riders having raced? I then saw that the sheets on the BSPA sites had been updated during the day (24th) - which fitted in with their mention in the regulations that green sheets are updated around the 23rd of the month and take effect on the 1st of a month. I saw that no averages were attached to the fast track riders so that left me, and others, still not clear as to whether they will publish averages or not for the riders. Your quote can be read with different interpretations and i'm still open-minded as to whether we'll see averages or not. Plus of course they may not assign an average to a rider unless they've ridden a certain quota of matches home or away, i had no such restriction, although did point out for poeple to take into account it's early days. You must have missed the post that stated Phil Morris would be keeping the FT scores/averages up to date - and as the note on the BSPA's site says 'they will be updated in a revised list each month' and remain valid for that month from the 1st to the last day of that month. (ps. Its not my quote - its taken straight from the BSPA notes at the bottom of the FT riders list.) Edited April 25, 2014 by Skidder1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alan_Jones 1,005 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) The new FTDP rider list, effective May 1st, with (this months positions) and [original draft positions]. Josh Bates and Marc Owen are new additions in a guest only capacity. Seems a fair compromise in Josh's case. 1 ( 1) [ 1] Lewis Kerr 2 ( 3) [ 3] Kyle Newman 3 ( 4) [ 4] Lewis Blackbird 4 ( 2) [ 2] Jason Garrity 5 ( 7) [ 6] Adam Ellis 6 ( 5) [ 5] Stefan Nielsen 7# ( 6) [--] Charles Wright 8 (13) [12] Steve Worrall 9 ( 8) [ 7] Ashley Morris 10 (10) [ 9] Joe Jacobs 11 ( 9) [ 8] Paul Starke 12 (11) [10] Tom Perry 13 (12) [11] Simon Lambert 14 (19) [17] James Sarjeant 15 (15) [--] Benji Compton 16 (26) [20] Lewis Rose 17# (--) [15] Josh Bates 18# (22) [--] Oliver Greenwood 19 (14) [13] Lee Smart 20 (18) [16] Daniel Halsey 21 (21) [18] Ben Morley 22 (16) [14] Ben Reade 23 (17) [--] Darren Mallett 24# (20) [--] Tim Webster 25 (23) [19] Ben Hopwood 26# (24) [--] Liam Carr 27# (25) [--] Kyle Hughes 28 (27) [21] Max Clegg 29 (28) [22] Darryl Ritchings 30 (29) [23] Dan Greenwood 31 (30) [--] Brendan Johnson 32# (35) [--] Jack Kingston 33 (33) [--] Nathan Greaves 34# (--) [--] Marc Owen 35 (31) [--] Lee Payne 36 (32) [--] Luke Crang 37 (34) [--] Matt Williamson 38# (36) [--] Brandon Freemantle Edited April 28, 2014 by Alan_Jones Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manchesterpaul 447 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) You must have missed the post that stated Phil Morris would be keeping the FT scores/averages up to date - and as the note on the BSPA's site says 'they will be updated in a revised list each month' and remain valid for that month from the 1st to the last day of that month. (ps. Its not my quote - its taken straight from the BSPA notes at the bottom of the FT riders list.) Yeah that's cool, i must have missed that post. Only thing is i've seen that section of the BSPA notes you refer to when it was first published and i was asking if it did include averages as it could read just the rankings are redone, then agian i hadn't/haven't seen the Morris post you mention. I also was of the mind they won't list averages unless riders have completed a certian amount of hame and away mathces. With the way fixtures are unevenly spread out for some riders that could take ages to find out how they are performing. The new FTDP rider list, effective May 1st, with (this months positions) and [original draft positions]. Josh Bates and Marc Owen are new additions in a guest only capacity. Seems a fair compromise in Josh's case. 1 ( 1) [ 1] Lewis Kerr 2 ( 3) [ 3] Kyle Newman 3 ( 4) [ 4] Lewis Blackbird 4 ( 2) [ 2] Jason Garrity 5 ( 7) [ 6] Adam Ellis 6 ( 5) [ 5] Stefan Nielsen 7# ( 6) [--] Charles Wright 8 (13) [12] Steve Worrall 9 ( 8) [ 7] Ashley Morris 10 (10) [ 9] Joe Jacobs 11 ( 9) [ 8] Paul Starke 12 (11) [10] Tom Perry 13 (12) [11] Simon Lambert 14 (19) [17] James Sarjeant 15 (15) [--] Benji Compton 16 (26) [20] Lewis Rose 17# (--) [15] Josh Bates 18# (22) [--] Oliver Greenwood 19 (14) [13] Lee Smart 20 (18) [16] Daniel Halsey 21 (21) [18] Ben Morley 22 (16) [14] Ben Reade 23 (17) [--] Darren Mallett 24# (20) [--] Tim Webster 25 (23) [19] Ben Hopwood 26# (24) [--] Liam Carr 27# (25) [--] Kyle Hughes 28 (27) [21] Max Clegg 29 (28) [22] Darryl Ritchings 30 (29) [23] Dan Greenwood 31 (30) [--] Brendan Johnson 32# (35) [--] Jack Kingston 33 (33) [--] Nathan Greaves 34# (--) [--] Marc Owen 35 (31) [--] Lee Payne 36 (32) [--] Luke Crang 37 (34) [--] Matt Williamson 38# (36) [--] Brandon Freemantle Ummmm! where are the averages? Edited April 28, 2014 by manchesterpaul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeilWatson 1,988 Posted April 28, 2014 SR16.2.1 ESTABLISHED MA’s are calculated on a “Rolling” basis, for a specified number of applicable Meetings, taking account of the number of Heats and Points (excluding Bonus Points) that a Rider has scored. The applicable Meetings are: Elite League: League Meetings, excluding the Play-Offs Premier League: League Cup mini-League Meetings & regular League Meetings National League: League Meetings, excluding the Play-Offs. NB: (Double) points scored as a TR will count at 50%. FTDP Riders in the EL and all Riders appearing as a Guest or as a #8 are ignored. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,645 Posted April 28, 2014 Have a look at SCB's faaaaaaaaaaabulous website http://www.speedway-stats.co.uk/ You'll have to scour every team for the draft averages but they are all there. Unless SCB fancies putting in a draft category in the EL section. I may stick a couple of extra a's in faaaaaaaaaaabulous Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted April 28, 2014 Have a look at SCB's faaaaaaaaaaabulous website http://www.speedway-stats.co.uk/ You'll have to scour every team for the draft averages but they are all there. Unless SCB fancies putting in a draft category in the EL section. I may stick a couple of extra a's in faaaaaaaaaaabulous I'll try and get the site up to date tonight. But yes, I was thinking of putting some sort of split by heatleader, second string and reserves on so will look into it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,645 Posted April 28, 2014 I'll try and get the site up to date tonight. But yes, I was thinking of putting some sort of split by heatleader, second string and reserves on so will look into it. You're a wonderful man SCB and don't let anyone tell you otherwise 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tellboy 3,653 Posted April 28, 2014 Pretty sure averages won't count anyway,If they were to go into a teams 1-5 next season they would start on a 3. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted April 28, 2014 Pretty sure averages won't count anyway,If they were to go into a teams 1-5 next season they would start on a 3. Got to if we're gonna help them ...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manchesterpaul 447 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) SR16.2.1 ESTABLISHED MA’s are calculated on a “Rolling” basis, for a specified number of applicable Meetings, taking account of the number of Heats and Points (excluding Bonus Points) that a Rider has scored. The applicable Meetings are: Elite League: League Meetings, excluding the Play-Offs Premier League: League Cup mini-League Meetings & regular League Meetings National League: League Meetings, excluding the Play-Offs. NB: (Double) points scored as a TR will count at 50%. FTDP Riders in the EL and all Riders appearing as a Guest or as a #8 are ignored. Eh? ok i still on a run of late nights and sleep deprivation but.....does that mean it's a good job i cobbled up these stats as the BSPA ones will be ignoring the Fast Track riders performances in the Elite League? Also i avoid the 'rolling' averages like the plague, especially over more than the current season, as i am interested in a riders current sporting performance over the WHOLE of THIS season. I'm not interested in knocking off or adding percentages of averages for this, that or whatever reason regards to the team building rules, i want to know - and published - riders averages according to their sporting performance for this season. Rolling averages are a technical tool used for team building/regulations, i'm a what is happening before my eyes speedway fan and only wish to know how a rider is doing in his sporting performance over this season. Have a look at SCB's faaaaaaaaaaabulous website http://www.speedway-stats.co.uk/ You'll have to scour every team for the draft averages but they are all there. Unless SCB fancies putting in a draft category in the EL section. I may stick a couple of extra a's in faaaaaaaaaaabulous Eh? and ummmm lol so you're asking SCB to do what i've already done here? What is the point of scouring/ploughing through 10 teams averages - and trying to memorize them!!! - if you can see them all in a single list in this thread? I've still not had time to read up on the rules regarding the averages. But do i take it the top 5 will be interchanging all year long and taking it in turns if in the top three to mainly ride against the top riders in the team and if a second string mainly ride against the other second strings and the fast track riders/reserves? If so although it sounds a good idea for SCB to split his averages into heat leaders/second strings/reserves it's pretty pointless as a sporting indicator to form with a riders average being dependent on which particular cycle he's on....racing against the best riders of a team or the weakest! I'm still agog at how they are going to set team building averages next year (hell even ordering this season's lol). The reason i did split the Fast Track riders averages is because they are set to stay in their 6 and 7 positions over the whole season, therefore one can get a judgement of form. 'Screamer' you've totally lost me on all this adding extra a's etc what are you celebrating??? I can't get a handle on that at all? Edited April 28, 2014 by manchesterpaul 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TMW 532 Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) The new FTDP rider list, effective May 1st, with (this months positions) and [original draft positions]. Josh Bates and Marc Owen are new additions in a guest only capacity. Seems a fair compromise in Josh's case. 1 ( 1) [ 1] Lewis Kerr 2 ( 3) [ 3] Kyle Newman 3 ( 4) [ 4] Lewis Blackbird 4 ( 2) [ 2] Jason Garrity 5 ( 7) [ 6] Adam Ellis 6 ( 5) [ 5] Stefan Nielsen 7# ( 6) [--] Charles Wright 8 (13) [12] Steve Worrall 9 ( 8) [ 7] Ashley Morris 10 (10) [ 9] Joe Jacobs 11 ( 9) [ 8] Paul Starke 12 (11) [10] Tom Perry 13 (12) [11] Simon Lambert 14 (19) [17] James Sarjeant 15 (15) [--] Benji Compton 16 (26) [20] Lewis Rose 17# (--) [15] Josh Bates 18# (22) [--] Oliver Greenwood 19 (14) [13] Lee Smart 20 (18) [16] Daniel Halsey 21 (21) [18] Ben Morley 22 (16) [14] Ben Reade 23 (17) [--] Darren Mallett 24# (20) [--] Tim Webster 25 (23) [19] Ben Hopwood 26# (24) [--] Liam Carr 27# (25) [--] Kyle Hughes 28 (27) [21] Max Clegg 29 (28) [22] Darryl Ritchings 30 (29) [23] Dan Greenwood 31 (30) [--] Brendan Johnson 32# (35) [--] Jack Kingston 33 (33) [--] Nathan Greaves 34# (--) [--] Marc Owen 35 (31) [--] Lee Payne 36 (32) [--] Luke Crang 37 (34) [--] Matt Williamson 38# (36) [--] Brandon Freemantle Interesting how Brandon Freeantle has made it onto the list as a declared 3.00 and for example Danny Stoneman and Ryan Black lock at 4.29 and 4.43 aren't I wonder how they compile the list maybe they turned it down but it would be interesting to see the criteria to make 'The list' Edited April 29, 2014 by TMW Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manchesterpaul 447 Posted April 30, 2014 So it doesn't look like the BSPA page will be updated with averages, the updated Fast Track list is already published and effective from tomorrow (1st May). If they aren't i'll update these averages as they are valuable to look at sporting performance over the whole of this current season in a single list. Not sure why if they are grading the riders based on averages they won't publish them, gee are Fast Track riders averages the new 'attendance figures' of the sport as in never to be revealed because of shame? lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy robin 2,963 Posted April 30, 2014 Ain't it great to see how the draft system is working fairly again tonight in the Kings Lynn Vs. Leicester meeting tonight Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manchesterpaul 447 Posted April 30, 2014 Ain't it great to see how the draft system is working fairly again tonight in the Kings Lynn Vs. Leicester meeting tonight I agree it was a severe imbalance but isn't it Leicester's fault for not choosing different riders than they did? Aren't King's Lynn to be praised for choosing the riders they did? Or were the riders allotted with no say from the clubs involved, a bit like Rider Control in the old days? If it was all down to club's selections then it's similar to how every season ALL teams start equal in that they all have a set points limit. Praise should be given to those clubs whose selections end up scoring much higher than the others and criticism should be levelled at those whose choices have their team outclassed? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites