Speedway Promoter Game?

[BWitcher 12,453]

My thinking is if I'm doing it for £5 a month and paying £200 i may as well do it for nothing - lower expectation levels, if something fails I get less crap as I could claim, "you get what you pay for".

 

As for messed up fixtures, not hard to randomise things. TBH, the hardest thing is deciding if you have 4 riders in a race, who wins? Highest average rider? well all that will do is give the 10 point rider a 12 point average soon enough while the 3 pointer will never score a point. Add a random factor, how random? Random based on track? Do you take into account riders gating and passing abilities? You can at a simple level just select them in random order - but every rider would end the season as a 6 point rider

 

Have you ever played the board game Speedway Scene 2? It's what Flying Shale was based on.

 

Each rider is graded from A+ down to N I think from memory. It was a simple die roll system, where you would roll 2 dice and check the chart of your riders grade to see the result.. The higher the grade of rider, the more spaces they would advance.. some of the numbers would result in some form of problem being encountered such as a fall, engine failure etc.

 

You could use a similar system, but then tailor it a little further per rider, making some better gaters, some more able to overtake on the inside/outside etc... then add a formula in to adjust that result dependant upon the particular track etc.

 

Somewhere back at home I've actually got a very developed system doing just that that accounted for riders ability, the staging track, weather conditions etc that could be quite easily adapted into a computer game.. When I was about 13/14 I would spend hours working on it to get it as realistic as possible!

 

I know a small (very small now) amount of programming and have produced a very very basic simulation of a race using some of those formulas but that's it. I don't have a clue how to take it further and incorporate all the other features of a management game.

[RedcarRacer 228]

http://simspeedway.jimdo.com/

[Humphrey Appleby 13,955]

As for messed up fixtures, not hard to randomise things. TBH, the hardest thing is deciding if you have 4 riders in a race, who wins? Highest average rider? well all that will do is give the 10 point rider a 12 point average soon enough while the 3 pointer will never score a point. Add a random factor, how random? Random based on track? Do you take into account riders gating and passing abilities? You can at a simple level just select them in random order - but every rider would end the season as a 6 point rider

 

It's very easy to do. If you generate several random numbers within the range of a rider's average (e.g. 0-6 or 0-12), then whilst the higher averaged rider will likely score more highly, the degree of randomness means the lower average rider can still win. If you factor in a percentage for engine failures (which is roughly similar for all riders, although top riders will probably be slightly less susceptible due to having better equipment) and falls (more likely for lower averaged riders, but still possible for better riders), then that adds to the degree of 'randomness'.

 

Track specialism wouldn't need any special factoring other than working out different averages for each track, and factors could easily be added for gating and passing, although you'd need to do some reasonably complex analysis of individual riders performance in order to grade them.

if the game was good maybe you'd be able to charge a fiver a month, which with even a 1000 users is a tidy sum if you were able to do the programming etc. yourself.

 

The problem is that in order to get a professional quality speedway game developed, you'd probably have to invest 6-12 months full-time effort before you get any return. That investment in time would have to be amortised over the potential lifetime of the game, which in the entertainment business is probably only a couple of years before people lose interest.

 

So even on the off-chance you were able to make GBP 60K per year for a couple of years, it would not be an amazing return on what is a very niche market, and frankly most decent developers could make more money for less effort doing something else. That's basically why there are so few speedway games, and those that exist are done as a labour of love.

[BWitcher 12,453]

 

It's very easy to do. If you generate several random numbers within the range of a rider's average (e.g. 0-6 or 0-12), then whilst the higher averaged rider will likely score more highly, the degree of randomness means the lower average rider can still win. If you factor in a percentage for engine failures (which is roughly similar for all riders, although top riders will probably be slightly less susceptible due to having better equipment) and falls (more likely for lower averaged riders, but still possible for better riders), then that adds to the degree of 'randomness'.

 

Track specialism wouldn't need any special factoring other than working out different averages for each track, and factors could easily be added for gating and passing, although you'd need to do some reasonably complex analysis of individual riders performance in order to grade them.

 

 

Spot on Humphrey.

 

Basic random number generation is how it works.

 

It would also depend upon whether you just wanted one calculation to determine the result of the race, or it can be done in phases to 'create a race' as such.. i.e positions after lap 1, lap 2 etc. you can then link this into various forms of text for commentary too. With SCB's skills it would be pretty basic stuff. I've done something similar for wrestling way back in the day on the good old 48K. Had 16 wrestlers to select, you'd pick the two and it would give text commentary on the match. All random number generated, but with variables thrown in for their stamina, strength etc that would deplete depending upon the events of the match. Speedway would actually be easier!

[SCB 0]

I hate random though. Whats the point then? There has to be some skill in picking the team. Riders have to be given ratings for passing, gating, team riding etc etc or you may as well signed 7 random riders (as Im sure some promoters are happy to do!) and they have to be used.

 

In the past Ive used random numbers for testing purposes but it's a bit too weak for an actual game and where, IMO, "Speedway Promoter" falls down - far too easy to win on it.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,955]

I hate random though. Whats the point then? There has to be some skill in picking the team. Riders have to be given ratings for passing, gating, team riding etc etc or you may as well signed 7 random riders (as Im sure some promoters are happy to do!) and they have to be used.

Well there's an inherent degree of randomness in a real speedway meeting, otherwise the result would be totally predictable. The point is to take the factors that make one rider better than another, but then base your randomness generation on those factors. That way, the odds are that the better rider will win, but it's not a foregone conclusion any more than in a real meeting.

[waiheke1 4,295]

 

Have you ever played the board game Speedway Scene 2? It's what Flying Shale was based on.

 

Each rider is graded from A+ down to N I think from memory. It was a simple die roll system, where you would roll 2 dice and check the chart of your riders grade to see the result.. The higher the grade of rider, the more spaces they would advance.. some of the numbers would result in some form of problem being encountered such as a fall, engine failure etc.

 

You could use a similar system, but then tailor it a little further per rider, making some better gaters, some more able to overtake on the inside/outside etc... then add a formula in to adjust that result dependant upon the particular track etc.

 

Somewhere back at home I've actually got a very developed system doing just that that accounted for riders ability, the staging track, weather conditions etc that could be quite easily adapted into a computer game.. When I was about 13/14 I would spend hours working on it to get it as realistic as possible!

 

I know a small (very small now) amount of programming and have produced a very very basic simulation of a race using some of those formulas but that's it. I don't have a clue how to take it further and incorporate all the other features of a management game.

 

SCB - you can still download the flying shale game for a free trial, if you want to see what it looks like, basics of how it works etc.

http://roogames.co.uk/fs.htm

 

Bwitcher - I only had the original Speedway scene, do you know what the changes make for the 2" version were?

I played Speedway Scene endlessly as a kid - so many yeasr on, I can still, tragic as it is, remember pretty much every grading card from A+ down to about G, and tell you every rider from every BL team's grade for the 82 season!

[StevePark 2,780]

 

SCB - you can still download the flying shale game for a free trial, if you want to see what it looks like, basics of how it works etc.

http://roogames.co.uk/fs.htm

 

Bwitcher - I only had the original Speedway scene, do you know what the changes make for the 2" version were?

I played Speedway Scene endlessly as a kid - so many yeasr on, I can still, tragic as it is, remember pretty much every grading card from A+ down to about G, and tell you every rider from every BL team's grade for the 82 season!

 

Maybe this link may help?

 

http://www.owzatgames.com/c/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=95&products_id=644&zenid=vi24dmm0gpjk7uq8kbh63fmsr7

[SCB 0]

SCB - you can still download the flying shale game for a free trial, if you want to see what it looks like, basics of how it works etc.

http://roogames.co.uk/fs.htm

Ive got a full copy of it, bought it about 10 years ago. Tidy little game with a pretty cool idea but where would be the fun for me just copying someone else concept? Falls and EF's pretty much have to be done that way. My thinking is the rate every rider for gating, passing, team riding, small track confidence, big track confidence, consistency, form, moral, white line ability, outside ability etc etc. It means when you sign a rider you have to look at these things to suit your home track and get some idea how a rider will perform away. It's time consuming giving each rider that rating though

 

Incidentally, the speedway challenge card game is a great way to kill a bit of time. I actually programmed that a few years ago, the only issue is you play against the computer and the computers a bit thick.

Edited August 13, 2014 by SCB

[Humphrey Appleby 13,955]

My thinking is the rate every rider for gating, passing, team riding, small track confidence, big track confidence, consistency, form, moral, white line ability, outside ability etc etc.

It would be quite easy to program these factors into an otherwise random number generator. The difficulty is how you'd assess these things in a realistic way (and on an ongoing basis), and working out how much of a factor they are in the outcome of a race. Indeed, these things are very likely to be different from rider-to-rider and track-to-track, but you ultimately have to compromise between complexity and playability, otherwise only the extreme diehards will bother with your game.

[BWitcher 12,453]

Ive got a full copy of it, bought it about 10 years ago. Tidy little game with a pretty cool idea but where would be the fun for me just copying someone else concept? Falls and EF's pretty much have to be done that way. My thinking is the rate every rider for gating, passing, team riding, small track confidence, big track confidence, consistency, form, moral, white line ability, outside ability etc etc. It means when you sign a rider you have to look at these things to suit your home track and get some idea how a rider will perform away. It's time consuming giving each rider that rating though

 

Incidentally, the speedway challenge card game is a great way to kill a bit of time. I actually programmed that a few years ago, the only issue is you play against the computer and the computers a bit thick.

 

As Humphrey says, of course all those factors are taken into account, but it will still be a random number generator that is going to drive it. It's not completely random, it's a controlled random.

 

There has to be controlled 'randomness', otherwise the best rider would always win, which as we know doesn't happen in real life.

 

The key is the 'race engine'. Do you just want a race result produced, in which case it would be pretty simple, or do you want the race to be run in stages with text commentary to go with it.

 

All the variables you mention can be built in, with riders having starting values that can adjust during the game, or even during a meeting if conditions change (a weather/track condition built in).

 

The best way to grade the riders is to get some help. Football Manager has folk all around the world provide ratings for the players. In essence they are just fans, you just have to check that nobody has given silly ratings.

 

SCB - you can still download the flying shale game for a free trial, if you want to see what it looks like, basics of how it works etc.

http://roogames.co.uk/fs.htm

 

Bwitcher - I only had the original Speedway scene, do you know what the changes make for the 2" version were?

I played Speedway Scene endlessly as a kid - so many yeasr on, I can still, tragic as it is, remember pretty much every grading card from A+ down to about G, and tell you every rider from every BL team's grade for the 82 season!

 

I don't know about the changes, but like you I spent hours playing as a kid running whole seasons! Happy Days!

[yahoho 30]

One other problem with this, as I found with 5-1, was that if you have a development time of 6 months then by the time you get to release the rules have changed and your game is out of date before it even hits the shelves.

 

During the development of 5-1 I had to re-write the match engine 3 times just to take into account the changes made over winter, add into that you now have 2 conference league riders in the elite league teams, I mean it changes every year.

 

They way we decided to overcome this was to build 5-1 into what was effectively a shell. The match engine, the team format, league format, heat / meeting format etc were completely programmable by the user, with a nice little editor. Basically this meant that after the game was released and the rules changed next year, the game could be kept up to date by the user if required. We also started to develop mod tools also so that users could add to the game and increase its functionality with new events and league types. It would effectively be a Speedway Game SDK. You could take 5-1, and build your own speedway game with its core engines.

 

Anyway, this thread now seems to be more like a "How can I make money from a speedway game?" debate. The simple answer is, you wont. I spent over 3 years working on 5-1 around other work and to date it has netted me GBP 0. Is it likely to ever net me anything? No, because so much has changed again since I last picked it up - it would almost be like starting from scratch.

 

We had a team of researchers who supplied stats for us from all leagues I think, a HUGE amount of data, truely incredible. Thats all inaccurate now too, so would they want to do it again? Doubt it.

 

I did have someone contact me not too long ago about taking on 5-1 Speedway from me, and continuing to develop it themselves. I forget who, but basically they wanted it for free. So that went nowhere.

[mrlincolncity 126]

Can anyone remember "riding the boards"

[le sorcier 9]

I lost my copy of Speedway Promoter. Is there any way of getting a copy anywhere?

[mrlincolncity 126]

Yea, i had speedway promoter and would love that again. I have recently got a commodore 64 emmulator working on my windows 8 laptop enabling the old games " speedway team championships" and "riding the boards" to play and save in full. Brilliant playing these again after 25 or so years. Great fun. No sign of speedway promoter though to download and run, and with the new windows now, id doubt it would run anyway, think it was windows95 wasnt it? Would need converting to run on 8