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Well Done Chris Harris

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Yes should be picked, get rid of these quali rounds.

 

Oh dear. And make it a closed shop? What a great idea, so nobody, apart from a select 15 would ever have a chance to win the world championship unless BSI decree that they are commercially viable. The speedway world championship has had a qualification system every year since its inception in 1936 and it should remain, indeed be expanded. And to speedy69 who said that "everyone who does the qualifiers gets a pick", I would say this:- That has always been the case. If you go back to the 70's, never mind the current arrangements, there were a series of qualifying rounds across the UK, Australasia, Scandinavia, the U.S and Europe and every rider that competed had to be selected by their respective national governing body. Nothing has changed, except that there are less qualifying rounds and less riders qualify for the world championship or GP than used to be the case.

 

No rider has a divine right to be in the GP, regardless of their status and/or track record, recent or otherwise, or regardless of any opinion on this forum. They should all qualify on merit and if they cannot do so, they don't deserve their place any more than someone who has done so. What those riders do once there is not relevant. If someone qualifies, they deserve their place and you simply can't question that. Even going back to the old world finals, the qualification system changed in the mid 90's when riders ended up in two semi finals. Many on this forum have suggested that most continentals were no hopers when they qualified, but the truth is, several continental riders made the world final at the expense of others even allowing for the "pooling" the riders in semi finals.

 

I can see why the top 8 get a place for the following year, but anyone else who wants a place in the series should attempt to qualify, rather than rely on a pick, or getting in the top 8. That way, they have more than one option to get a place on merit. Zagar is a great example and why should any rider who has not competed in the qualifiers get special treatment and be offered a wildcard when they can't commit to a qualification attempt? They just want a place handed to them on a plate, but why should they get one?

 

If you stop riders having the chance to qualify, what message does that send out to every rider out there? There should always be a qualification system so riders with that kind of ambition have something to aim for.

 

There will always be misfortune and someone may miss out, but that's part and parcel of the sport, Kenneth Bjerre could argue he has been unlucky - he competed in the GP and attempted to qualify, but injuries have cut him down, but the truth is that happens and always has, but the current wildcard system allows for that too. The balance we have should keep everyone happy. The top men from the previous year, those who have qualified by right and those that perhaps merit a place but haven't reached the series are all catered for.

 

The only thing I would change personally, is four qualifiers, not 3 and the wild card picks must have competed in the qualifying rounds.

Edited by Dave the Mic
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I mostly agree with the above apart from the top eight being automatically selected for the following year. I use the word selected deliberately.

 

Everyone should qualify.

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I mostly agree with the above apart from the top eight being automatically selected for the following year. I use the word selected deliberately.

 

Everyone should qualify.

They do quailfy by finishing in the top 8

 

Niamh

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They do quailfy by finishing in the top 8

 

Niamh

I meant - as I think you know - by going through Qualifying Rounds.

 

BSI say that the top eight Qualify for the following year (that isn't qualifying - it is being given a spot - ie: selected) - the Qualifiers should be from the year of the Championship being raced - NOT from the previous Season.

 

So YES - my claim that the top eight are selected is correct.

 

Ian

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Firstly I think it should only be the top 7 that qualify for the next year. Then 4 WC's and 4 qualifiers. Or go back to the 24 rider format. Personally thought it made for better viewing anyway!

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Oh dear. And make it a closed shop? What a great idea, so nobody, apart from a select 15 would ever have a chance to win the world championship unless BSI decree that they are commercially viable.

 

Although I understand your sentiment, it's somewhat ironic on a Grand Prix thread about Chris Harris, a rider who has benefited more than anyone from being 'commercially viable' in the eyes of BSI.

 

I'd go as far and saying Harris owes his entire Grand Prix career to the fact he was British at a time when we had very little international talent. That's not an affront to Harris; I perfectly understand why he jumped at the opportunity to ride on the international stage, not just for the prestige, but also the unique (and almost certainly lucrative) sponsorship opportunities that arose out of this arrangement. In a relatively short career who would blame him for capitalising on the generosity of the organisers?

 

I don't think anyone on this thread is questioning that Harris has (finally) qualified from the Grand Prix Challenge, in that sense he deserves to ride in the series next year. What's frustrating for those of us who want to see genuinely world class riders in the GP's, is that Harris has had one decent (brilliant in this instance, 13 points in Lonigo was a great achievement, but he wasn't exceptional in the previous rounds, although I acknowledge he just did enough) international level meeting on foreign soil this year, and he finds himself back in a series where he has been nothing short of woeful this season.

 

The guy has effectively had a 'free ride' in the GP's for years thanks to Wild Cards, giving him time to do the following;

 

  • suss out set ups for the various tracks,
  • build up a sponsorship base thanks to unprecedented TV exposure
  • invest in good machinery
  • work on his back up team
  • improve his starting technique by riding alongside the best

 

Given the above, can anyone honestly say that Harris has taken full advantage of the golden opportunities he has been given? I'm sorry but, "he didn't have much time to prepare this season", doesn't wash when other riders (Batchelor in his rookie year and Jepsen Jensen) have coped relatively well at short notice.

In 2007 he won a GP, and was just pipped to a place in the top 8. Great, that's what these Wild Cards are for, and it was hard to argue against his inclusion the following season. At the tail end of 2010 he was freakishly fast and qualified by right for 2011. In every other season however he has been a failure to one extent or the other, culminating in one of the worst full time Grand Prix seasons I've ever witnessed this year.

 

It's up to Harris if he rides next season, he's qualified, and I wouldn't blame him for accepting his place; as SCB pointed out, it must be incredible to travel the world and be paid for the pleasure, but I can't help but think we'll witness the same sorry saga all over again. Whist I congratulate him on his achievement, I can't say I'm looking forward to the prospect of Harris in the 2015 GP series.

 

JT.

 

Edited by JT
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Although I understand your sentiment, it's somewhat ironic on a Grand Prix thread about Chris Harris, a rider who has benefited more than anyone from being 'commercially viable' in the eyes of BSI.

 

I'd go as far and saying Harris owes his entire Grand Prix career to the fact he was British at a time when we had very little international talent.

Lets look at his GP and GP qualifier history

2007 he finished 9th losing a run-off with the guys in 7th and 8th so without wildcards would have probably got a place.

2008 he finished 13. Yeah. I'll chose to ignore this season, it doesn't suit my argument :D

2009 he finished 5th in the challenge so 2nd reserve bur Freddie was 1st reserve and he finished 9th in the series. Without wildcards Bomber would have probably qualified.

2010 he finished joint 5th (technically 6th on count back - why no count back in 2007 though?) in the World.

2011 he finished 11th. Didn't do the qualifiers. Yeah. Not good BUT the following season the Poles limited GP riders and Hans Andersen who finished 14th in the qualifiers got in! Bombers 11th in the GP series trumps that

2012 he finished 12. Messed up the qualis but didnt get back in the year after.

2013 he finished 5th in the qualifier. Without wildcards that would probably be enough. As it was 2 riders quit and one rider qualified twice so he got in.

2014 he finished 3rd in the qualis and made it.

 

So in all them season only twice would he have not qualified, 2009 (based on 2008 results) and 2012 (based on '11) but 2012 was a bit of a farce anyway.

 

 

So by all means, discount his wildcards but then he qualified more times than he failed. Still not a great record but not as bad as some think.

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Somehow there's logic in that SCB ;)

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Chris considering a new engine engine for his 2015 campaign

 

BzsVULNCUAAveJ7.jpg

Edited by A ORLOV
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probably slow out of the gate, but once he got going there will be no stopping him.

Certainly should have no problem getting some grip out of the track with that set up,he's slow out of the gate anyway so there is nothing to worry about there.!

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Lets look at his GP and GP qualifier history

2007 he finished 9th losing a run-off with the guys in 7th and 8th so without wildcards would have probably got a place.

2008 he finished 13. Yeah. I'll chose to ignore this season, it doesn't suit my argument :D

2009 he finished 5th in the challenge so 2nd reserve bur Freddie was 1st reserve and he finished 9th in the series. Without wildcards Bomber would have probably qualified.

2010 he finished joint 5th (technically 6th on count back - why no count back in 2007 though?) in the World.

2011 he finished 11th. Didn't do the qualifiers. Yeah. Not good BUT the following season the Poles limited GP riders and Hans Andersen who finished 14th in the qualifiers got in! Bombers 11th in the GP series trumps that

2012 he finished 12. Messed up the qualis but didnt get back in the year after.

2013 he finished 5th in the qualifier. Without wildcards that would probably be enough. As it was 2 riders quit and one rider qualified twice so he got in.

2014 he finished 3rd in the qualis and made it.

 

So in all them season only twice would he have not qualified, 2009 (based on 2008 results) and 2012 (based on '11) but 2012 was a bit of a farce anyway.

 

 

So by all means, discount his wildcards but then he qualified more times than he failed. Still not a great record but not as bad as some think.

 

Not to mention that in both 2013 AND 2014 he only even got into the "Qualifier final" through the back door!!...ALL you stats show is that he is arguably the LUCKIEST and most underserved rider to have been in the actual GP's on a regular basis, ever!!

Another season of GP embarrassments lay ahead for him, but hey, he's not going to worry about that whilst he's making money from it (and to be fair, who can blame him!)

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Not to mention that in both 2013 AND 2014 he only even got into the "Qualifier final" through the back door!!...ALL you stats show is that he is arguably the LUCKIEST and most underserved rider to have been in the actual GP's on a regular basis, ever!!

Another season of GP embarrassments lay ahead for him, but hey, he's not going to worry about that whilst he's making money from it (and to be fair, who can blame him!)

In 2014 there was no back door. He qualified by rights. I accept 2013 was a bit (ahem!) dodgy.

 

And its not a "season of GP embarrassments". He qualified, whats embarrassing is none of the other riders int he World (aside from the 10 who qualified) could do anything about it. If he was so bad they would have done, right?

 

What my stats show is he often finished 6-9th in a GP series or as one of the two reserves. So if there was no such thing as a wildcard and instead the top 10 GP riders qualified and the top 5 from the qualifiers then he'd have qualified more times than not. The wildcards were given to him as it would have been unfair to give someone who had not performed as well as him in the GPs or the qualifiers a place.

Edited by SCB

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In 2014 there was no back door. He qualified by rights. I accept 2013 was a bit (ahem!) dodgy.

 

And its not a "season of GP embarrassments". He qualified, whats embarrassing is none of the other riders int he World (aside from the 10 who qualified) could do anything about it. If he was so bad they would have done, right?

 

What my stats show is he often finished 6-9th in a GP series or as one of the two reserves. So if there was no such thing as a wildcard and instead the top 10 GP riders qualified and the top 5 from the qualifiers then he'd have qualified more times than not. The wildcards were given to him as it would have been unfair to give someone who had not performed as well as him in the GPs or the qualifiers a place.

 

1st bold section: Not quite true though is it - he was only a reserve for the challenge final and only by luck did one of the qualifiers not take their place which then promoted him in to the final.

 

2nd bold section: Again not true though. Not all riders get the opportunity as those in the qualifiers are there only due to being selected by their country in the first place.

 

No issues with him being in the series next year though because he took advantage of that chance and I wish him the best of luck - the more Brits in there the better.

Edited by SPEEDY69

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