Warsaw Gp Saturday 18th April

[weatherwatcher 664]

Hopefully, next seson will see the new stadium opening at Bel Vue. not sure what the seating capacity will be, we will have to wait and see, I just do not like the tempory tracks, the racing is terrible, good to see the crowds, but can't say that the product is great.

It just goes to show how far behind the times British speedway has gone, we are now in the 21st centuray and still have tracks from the dark ages. When or if ever will we get a track that is good enough over here without having to use the one at Cardiff.

From what we saw at Warsaw it may not be a bad idea to use the old track at Newport, the trailers and lorries would add that extra bit of excitement, just the sort of things, the paying public crave for.

Out of all the people who go to Cardiff, how many of those go to regular speedway meetings, or do they just go for all the razzle and dazzlle, that they get at the GP's, even if nothing works on the night..

[The White Knight 9,039]

 

 

 

I bet he's the only man to come away from Warsaw with a refund.

Seeing 'Meridian Lifts' emblazoned on a non-functioning clock is not the sort of publicity anyone wants.

Or would pay for.

 

As bad as being 'Lift Sponsor' on 'The Big Bang Theory'.

I love that - you certainly made me laugh..

 

I'm surprised that Sheldon Cooper hasn't come up with a Plan to fix that Lift. :unsure:

[bruno 1,790]

Although the track wasn't great we have seen worse it's obvious the riders had had enough of officials incompetence.however the riders should never have the final say on getting a meeting cancelled. Although it would have been a farce should the meeting have carried on and whichever riders didn't want to carry on then so be it. If Harris wanted to take his last rides should he have been allowed to?

[fullbore 129]

Out of all the people who go to Cardiff, how many of those go to regular speedway meetings, or do they just go for all the razzle and dazzlle, that they get at the GP's, even if nothing works on the night..

Well the 300 mile round trip to our nesrest 2 tracks rather prevents attending regular speedway meetings... Cardiff is only a 180 mmile round trip.

 

Niamh

[Humphrey Appleby 13,954]

Seeing 'Meridian Lifts' emblazoned on a non-functioning clock is not the sort of publicity anyone wants.

The two minute clock wasn't functioning either...?

[500cc 309]

 

For the record: no one from BSI or anyone else for that matter threatened the riders with fines. It is not within their jurisdiction to do so anyway.

 

Anyone who thinks that there isn't a massive investigation going into what went wrong in Warsaw is living in cloud cuckoo land. I believe there will be a meeting with the FIM, BSI and the PZM in Geneva next week.

 

Also, there are a number of riders, including those at the top of the tree, who are privately admitting that had the starting gate worked the meeting would probably have reached its conclusion. It was the straw that broke the camel's back

 

None of which exonerates those responsible for the problems in Warsaw, not least the lack of a second starting gate which, had it been available, might have saved the day.

 

FIM rules quite clearly state that if a starting gate malfunctions races should be started on the green light.

Not a cause to call a meeting off. However, as soon as the riders said the track was unsafe it was a different ball game. The FIM cannot force riders to compete on a track they claim is unsafe even if, in their (FIM) opinion it is not so.

 

Thank-you for the insight.

It does again highlight the fact that how a failed starting gate can appear to have made the difference between a GP completing or not. There are clear rules for starting on the green light if the tapes failed. Ok, they tried to fix them. But we lost NINE heats.

The riders deserve all the backlash they get for this. Riders influence has become to much in recent years. They are given the benefit of doubt over safety, but they are abusing that privilege.

But even the area of safety is becoming blurred. So having pushed it this far, it's time we cleared it up. A rider in this meeting compared his fitness and limitations to driving a car with his legs. Well, any rider deemed not fit by a medical expert taking into account safety implications must be excluded from riding (that includes the equivalent of driving a car with your legs). Other sports have no problem with this and that is typically only the health of the individual. Motor sport needs to consider other competitors.

Can riders really not be fined for refusing to ride, even if it's not just for delaying the start?

And then into the realms of riders saying a track is unsafe. It's a difficult one. The riders will know best, but how independent is their view.

My view on this is in maintaining the riders veto on safety issues, there should be ZERO tolerance on all other issues. They should have no influence on issues such as starting procedures unless the referee specifically requests their input. Any (including Safety) rider meetings are only allowed at after request to and agreement from the referee. The Referee would not be allowed to reject a safety request. Personally I wouldn't allow any rider meeting without the referees presence.

Any unofficial meeting should result in rider fines, and if holding up the meeting, exclusion of all 4 riders from the 'delayed' Heat. Any meetings called under the request of Safety that are proven not to be, should make the riders liable to fines and suspensions.

There was lots at this meeting that need resolving, but the riders have pushed this to the limit. So let's take away the grey areas. But the riders shouldn't expect sympathy if they aren't then happy then.

[The White Knight 9,039]

 

 

Thank-you for the insight.

It does again highlight the fact that how a failed starting gate can appear to have made the difference between a GP completing or not. There are clear rules for starting on the green light if the tapes failed. Ok, they tried to fix them. But we lost NINE heats.

The riders deserve all the backlash they get for this. Riders influence has become to much in recent years. They are given the benefit of doubt over safety, but they are abusing that privilege.

But even the area of safety is becoming blurred. So having pushed it this far, it's time we cleared it up. A rider in this meeting compared his fitness and limitations to driving a car with his legs. Well, any rider deemed not fit by a medical expert taking into account safety implications must be excluded from riding (that includes the equivalent of driving a car with your legs). Other sports have no problem with this and that is typically only the health of the individual. Motor sport needs to consider other competitors.

Can riders really not be fined for refusing to ride, even if it's not just for delaying the start?

And then into the realms of riders saying a track is unsafe. It's a difficult one. The riders will know best, but how independent is their view.

My view on this is in maintaining the riders veto on safety issues, there should be ZERO tolerance on all other issues. They should have no influence on issues such as starting procedures unless the referee specifically requests their input. Any (including Safety) rider meetings are only allowed at after request to and agreement from the referee. The Referee would not be allowed to reject a safety request. Personally I wouldn't allow any rider meeting without the referees presence.

Any unofficial meeting should result in rider fines, and if holding up the meeting, exclusion of all 4 riders from the 'delayed' Heat. Any meetings called under the request of Safety that are proven not to be, should make the riders liable to fines and suspensions.

There was lots at this meeting that need resolving, but the riders have pushed this to the limit. So let's take away the grey areas. But the riders shouldn't expect sympathy if they aren't then happy then.

 

Are you telling me that BSI has absolutely no responsibility for this farce? If you are, I cannot agree with you.

 

Consider this - the Riders would not have pulled out for no reason. It will cost them a lot of money.

 

Perhaps they are just sick and tired of the way things are run in Speedway GPs these days. I suspect that there is much more to this than meets the eye.

 

I am not saying the Riders were not to blame, I am only asking why you think that the Riders actions were felt by said Riders, to be necessary?

 

Before anyone mentions the Green Light issue - I find it hard to believe that Riders would walk out of a GP for being asked to do something that is catered for within the Rules and Regulations of Speedway itself.

 

I think we may have a deeper problem here - I doubt we will find out what it is though.

 

I await the next GP with interest.

[Barrycuda 184]

Post removed

Edited June 6, 2015 by Barrycuda

[weatherwatcher 664]

It was quite comical last Monday on Sky sport when, Nigel Pearson brought up about the Gp at Warsaw and Kelvin Tatum replied. " I would rather not go into that " That was the end of the issue and Nigel Pearson, just stood there gapping like a fish out of water. So I think that all parties where told not to mention what happened on the night.

I am sure it will all come out in the wash though, in the end, because if nothing is done about the whole farse then it just proves that money talks.

[gbrussell 27]

I hope Phillip Rising is right and the results of a massive investigation will be known soon. From where i sitting at the opposite end of the speedway mainstream in Sydney I am fearing another BSI "carpet sweep" similar to Gelsenkirchen 2008. The more that time ticks away with no news the more I think nothing will happen.

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

I CAN say with absolute certainty that the SGP riders are very happy with the manner in which the series is run and organised by BSI staff.

There is a huge volume of work that takes place behind the scenes, much of which makes the life of the riders far easier than it otherwise would be. They fully appreciate the level of professionalism that goes into staging these events.

I have been attending speedway meetings for over 50 years, including just about every World Final since 1961, and it is chalk and cheese these days.

And I don’t know of any rider who doesn’t relish riding in the big venues.

The issue they have is when tracks, temporary or otherwise, are not up to scratch and they are quite justified in asking for the proper stage on which to strut their stuff.

And, of course, sub-standard tracks are not just in the SGP domain (Rye House yesterday, Poole this season according to their own Chris Holder)

And this is the key issue. Everything BSI handle and control themselves is almost invariably beyond reproach. The problems arise with the work that they ‘contract out’ which, of course, happens to be the most important component of the event.

Imagine hiring a builder to construct a drive at your house and he sub-contracts the work out which proves to be inferior. The sub-contractors are at fault but, of course, the contractor is responsible.

Also, many on here do not seem to appreciate that responsibility for much of what goes on at a SGP remains in the province of the FIM though their appointed Jury President, referee and FMNR representative and is not within the authority of BSI or any other of the various organisers throughout staging the season.

Edited May 5, 2015 by PHILIPRISING

[Grand Central 2,654]

Goodness.

Who's 'All pumped up' now?

 

Calm down dear!

[Humphrey Appleby 13,954]

I CAN say with absolute certainty that the SGP riders are very happy with the manner in which the series is run and organised by BSI staff.

Which is why they refused to ride in Warsaw. Who do they think is responsible for the fiasco?

 

I have been attending speedway meetings for over 50 years, including just about every World Final since 1961, and it is chalk and cheese these days.

How many World Finals were abandoned halfway through?

 

And, of course, sub-standard tracks are not just in the SGP domain (Rye House yesterday, Poole this season according to their own Chris Holder)

Are you really trying to equate the sport's premier event with grassroots speedway?

 

Would you expect a World Cup Final pitch to be prepared in the same way as for Sunday league park football?

 

Everything BSI handle and control themselves is almost invariably beyond reproach. The problems arise with the work that they ‘contract out’ which, of course, happens to be the most important component of the event.

They should find more reliable contractors then. They are ultimately responsible for putting on the show - no-one else.

 

I'm also sure not why 'contract out' should be in quotes. Presumably they do actually have contracts with the local organisers and other facilitators of each GP?

 

The lack of supervision and ongoing quality control issues point firmly to the problem being with BSI. If planes keep falling out of the sky, would you find it acceptable if the airline blamed the outsourced maintenance? Of course you wouldn't, and the airline would lose its operating licence as indeed happens when issues are identified with airline procedures.

 

Also, many on here do not seem to appreciate that responsibility for much of what goes on at a SGP remains in the province of the FIM though their appointed Jury President, referee and FMNR representative and is not within the authority of BSI or any other of the various organisers throughout staging the season.

So the blame management has already begun then? All a predictable pattern once again.

 

The FIM is in no way responsible for the starting gate not working, the state of the track, or the poor communications inside the stadium. They are responsible for ensuring the staging promoter has met the required (safety) standards outlined in the regulations, officiating the meeting, and any judicial processes - nothing much more.

 

You might reasonably blame them for allowing the meeting to start or continue on a sub-standard track, for not ensuring the starting gate was reliable, or with inadequate communication methods in place. You might also point the finger at not recalling a rider erroneously excluded from race, but all of these issues are down to organisational inadequacies of the promotion in the first place.

 

BTW - I officiated at a kart meeting in rural Australia at the weekend. Even they managed to not only have telemetry from race control to screens in the pits, but to the Internet as well. Yet BSI will have us believe we have to rely on smoke signals in the 21st century (although it seems even that would have been better than what they had in Warsaw).

Edited May 5, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby

[baldinhio 16]

I CAN say with absolute certainty that the SGP riders are very happy with the manner in which the series is run and organised by BSI staff.

There is a huge volume of work that takes place behind the scenes, much of which makes the life of the riders far easier than it otherwise would be. They fully appreciate the level of professionalism that goes into staging these events.

I have been attending speedway meetings for over 50 years, including just about every World Final since 1961, and it is chalk and cheese these days.

And I don’t know of any rider who doesn’t relish riding in the big venues.

The issue they have is when tracks, temporary or otherwise, are not up to scratch and they are quite justified in asking for the proper stage on which to strut their stuff.

And, of course, sub-standard tracks are not just in the SGP domain (Rye House yesterday, Poole this season according to their own Chris Holder)

And this is the key issue. Everything BSI handle and control themselves is almost invariably beyond reproach. The problems arise with the work that they ‘contract out’ which, of course, happens to be the most important component of the event.

Imagine hiring a builder to construct a drive at your house and he sub-contracts the work out which proves to be inferior. The sub-contractors are at fault but, of course, the contractor is responsible.

Also, many on here do not seem to appreciate that responsibility for much of what goes on at a SGP remains in the province of the FIM though their appointed Jury President, referee and FMNR representative and is not within the authority of BSI or any other of the various organisers throughout staging the season.

 

 

 

 

Whilst the riders may be happy with the BSI's role in raising the profile of GP speedway I believe they are less than happy with the financial reward. BSI's last published accounts showed a net profit in excess of £2m after allowing for the deduction of staff and directors salaries. For someone with the time to act collectively for the riders there is perhaps a fairer share of the spoils to be distributed. Do you agree?

 

BSI are the main "Contractor" and as such they in my opinion liable. From your statement you appear to somewhat reluctantly accept this point. Can you please clarify?

 

 

You state, "Everything BSI handle and control themselves is almost invariably beyond reproach". I beg to differ. As one of the unfortunate people who paid to travel to Poland, my hand written letter received a non personal standard email response referencing PZM as liable. In your opinion is that good enough?

 

If the BSI have issues with the quality of the officials or control of the FIM they could consider breaking away and installing their own panel(s). Would you support such a move if it improved the quality of the panel(s)?

 

[SCB 0]

No one, least of all Olsen, BSI or the FIM will deny that the track wasn't perfect but, as Jason Crump points out in SS this week, indoor temporary tracks seldom are. It is and always will be a compromise and one, like Crump and Tony Rickardsson always said, is a price worth paying. Do you not think Holder, Doyle, Batchelor are excited about an Australian GP at the Etihad rather than Mildura?

Is this the issue? Crump, Rickardsson and riders of that era remember riding GPs at Coventry and Bydgoszczczczcz and being sponsors by "Mr Wongs Chinese" and "Uncle Toms Used Cars" so when they moved into Cardiff and the bigged stadiums they accepted things were not perfect but the sport was now sponsored by KFC and Fiat. They went from riding in front of 10,000 people at Brandon to 45,000 at in the Millennium Stadium - they remember the bad old days. The current lot (Greg aside, and Nicki for a year or two maybe) have only ever known the GPs in the big stadiums so forget what we could go back to.

 

Crump and Rickardsson helped with the change over, riding on a rubbish Cardiff track in year 1 as they say the bigger picture, it would allow the next generation to ride in these big, impressive stadia with big, impressive crowds. Now that next generation have taken over and are complaining at every bloody opportunity. How many riders these days have a reputation as moaners compared to days gone by? Especially those born in Australia! They've gone from Crump who would get upset but he wasn't a moaner, he'd ride on what he was given. Now we have Holder and Batch an d beneath them Watt and Schlein who moan when anything is not perfect.