Warsaw Gp Saturday 18th April

[oldace 1,678]

 

http://speedwayupdates.proboards.com/thread/12801/belle-vue-poole-2013-30pm

 

Wasn't dangerous that night though was it Starry?

 

 

Yep that was dangerous, and un-ridable due to the rain. That was the right decision.

 

 

 

What rain?

 

The track was in the same condition at heat 10 as it was for heat 11 and yet it was safe for heat 10 but suddenly unsafe for heat 11. It didn't rain in the slightest.

 

The only thing that changed between those heat was a result could be declared, that result was by the 7 Poole needed and no refunds need be given.

 

Then along comes Tony Steele plumbing new depths of cobblers with the "moisture coming out of the track"

 

Rest assured, 100% dangerous or not that match was always finished between heat 10 and 15 at whatever point Poole were 7 up.

 

It is nice though that as a Poole fan you recognize that there was massive cheating by Poole and their cohorts to get them into the play off, as you say the match really should have been off and with it Pooles chance of a play off place. Of course they then went on to field a (retrospectively I grant you) totally ineligible rider so all in all a pretty hollow victory

[foreverblue 6,091]

Harris states the track was unraceable so was it worse than when he won the cardiff gp because the track that night looked far worse to me unless we have moved on and what used to be acceptable isnt anymore.

[Grand Central 2,654]

Harris states the track was unraceable so was it worse than when he won the cardiff gp because the track that night looked far worse to me unless we have moved on and what used to be acceptable isnt anymore.

 

 

Let's not kid ourselves, though.

Had Chris Harris been given the option of taking the result at Heat 12 in Cardiff 2007 he would no doubt have taken it.

 

After all, him and NP were on 7 points, in joint second place, behind the unbeaten Hans Andersen at the interval stage.

So he would have been in a podium position.

Just like in Warsaw

 

Of course that would have meant that he would have been denied the greatest moment of his career.

And we would have been denied the experience of Cardiff's best ever final.

And all the emotions that elicited.

 

Plus ... no one at all would now be going to South Wales on July 4 this year, either.

 

So who knows what would have happened on Saturday had we got through to Heat 23.

 

.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Grand Central

[arthur cross 492]

Top marks to Paul Burbidge's effort to report on the repeated "excessive moisture" problems of the dodgier temporary tracks over the SGP years, even if plenty of major football stadia groundsmen could have said much the same as far back as 20 years ago or longer !!

 

Once it became more fashionable for new sports stadiums (or revamps of existing venues) to wrap their seating round the whole playing arena (instead of having four separate stands along each side/end with relatively open corners), the groundsmen soon discovered how much tougher it was to keep the more sheltered parts of their pitch in good condition because it was now so much harder for the breezy and sunlight aspects of their pitch maintenance to help out with the temperature aspect of it.

 

It's why many stadiums built from the 1990's onwards have either a clear panel built into the southern roof of their stands (to refract more sunlight onto the pitch) or a couple of ground-level large ventilation shafts that double-up as emergency exits for on-the-pitch fans at rock concerts ... for example, Sunderland's Stadium of Light which opened in 1997 has both those features (clear southern roof plus south-west & north-west shafts) which is why it's allowed a 55,000 capacity for rock gigs despite the stage reducing its seating capacity from 48,000 to only 40,000.

 

But as soon as you try to put a temporary speedway track into a modern football or rugby stadium you're automatically putting one of sport's most weather-dependent playing surfaces into one of sport's most climate-regulated locations ... that's ok providing the temporary track is in ideal condition as it's installed but, as Gelsenkirchen proved (and Cardiff 2013 very narrowly avoided), a damp/dodgy track has almost no chance of being salvaged given the stadium architecture into which it's been plonked !!

 

Next time Tottenham are at home you'll see how hard they find it to maintain any grass on their pitch along its whole southern goal-line (left end as the tv-coverage shows it) ever since White Hart Lane became all-seater and fully-enclosed because that area misses any sunlight ... if they can't do any better with all-year-round access to that area of their pitch, it's no wonder any temporary speedway track is going to struggle to bed-in properly in just a few days !!

 

If Ole Olsen or BSI or anyone else involved in SGP meetings is always going to ignore this crucial aspect of the pitch-level climate of most major stadiums, then you're inevitably going to get more fiascos in the future to add to Gelsenkirchen, Warsaw, etc.

[Rico 210]

 

See HenryW's post.

 

Work was done to the track, not that the riders even took a look.

 

 

Just a little clarification on this BW.

 

Yes, they did bring out the equipment stated, however the remedial work only went on for 10/15 minutes - I guess the expected interval length after heat 12. Given there was a delay of around an hour at this point it was somewhat disappointing that the work wasn't carried on for a longer period in order to attempt to improve the state of the track.

 

None of the riders then came back out to check the state of the track after the limited remedial work.

 

Rico

[New Science 1,059]

Just to be safe, for certain.

Let's stop altogether.

Shut the whole sport down as it far, far too dangerous.

 

Then have a laugh at how easy those 18 would find a real job that paid them half as well.

 

.

I take it you don't see a need for an inquiry then ?

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

Top marks to Paul Burbidge's effort to report on the repeated "excessive moisture" problems of the dodgier temporary tracks over the SGP years, even if plenty of major football stadia groundsmen could have said much the same as far back as 20 years ago or longer !!

 

Once it became more fashionable for new sports stadiums (or revamps of existing venues) to wrap their seating round the whole playing arena (instead of having four separate stands along each side/end with relatively open corners), the groundsmen soon discovered how much tougher it was to keep the more sheltered parts of their pitch in good condition because it was now so much harder for the breezy and sunlight aspects of their pitch maintenance to help out with the temperature aspect of it.

 

It's why many stadiums built from the 1990's onwards have either a clear panel built into the southern roof of their stands (to refract more sunlight onto the pitch) or a couple of ground-level large ventilation shafts that double-up as emergency exits for on-the-pitch fans at rock concerts ... for example, Sunderland's Stadium of Light which opened in 1997 has both those features (clear southern roof plus south-west & north-west shafts) which is why it's allowed a 55,000 capacity for rock gigs despite the stage reducing its seating capacity from 48,000 to only 40,000.

 

But as soon as you try to put a temporary speedway track into a modern football or rugby stadium you're automatically putting one of sport's most weather-dependent playing surfaces into one of sport's most climate-regulated locations ... that's ok providing the temporary track is in ideal condition as it's installed but, as Gelsenkirchen proved (and Cardiff 2013 very narrowly avoided), a damp/dodgy track has almost no chance of being salvaged given the stadium architecture into which it's been plonked !!

 

Next time Tottenham are at home you'll see how hard they find it to maintain any grass on their pitch along its whole southern goal-line (left end as the tv-coverage shows it) ever since White Hart Lane became all-seater and fully-enclosed because that area misses any sunlight ... if they can't do any better with all-year-round access to that area of their pitch, it's no wonder any temporary speedway track is going to struggle to bed-in properly in just a few days !!

 

If Ole Olsen or BSI or anyone else involved in SGP meetings is always going to ignore this crucial aspect of the pitch-level climate of most major stadiums, then you're inevitably going to get more fiascos in the future to add to Gelsenkirchen, Warsaw, etc.

TOTTENHAM'S head groundsman, Darren Baldwin, is a speedway fan and along with wife Kelly was in Warsaw.

[BWitcher 12,453]

 

Just a little clarification on this BW.

 

Yes, they did bring out the equipment stated, however the remedial work only went on for 10/15 minutes - I guess the expected interval length after heat 12. Given there was a delay of around an hour at this point it was somewhat disappointing that the work wasn't carried on for a longer period in order to attempt to improve the state of the track.

 

None of the riders then came back out to check the state of the track after the limited remedial work.

 

Rico

 

Perhaps at that stage they had done the work necessary, or more likely it was pretty apparent at that stage the riders were refusing to race.

 

The remainder of that time no doubt was spent with them trying to persuade them to continue.

[racers and royals 8,723]

 

Perhaps at that stage they had done the work necessary, or more likely it was pretty apparent at that stage the riders were refusing to race.

 

The remainder of that time no doubt was spent with them trying to persuade them to continue.

The rest of the time was spent on the tapes-continually adjusting,testing for a good 30-40 minutes.

[Gavan 5,049]

Seriously people this is so black and white im confused by the comments.

 

1. The start tapes failed. This meant the riders had to use the green light. Not ideal in any meeting let alone a grand prix. However what this meant was that in actual fact the starts seemed fairer, which some riders did not agree with.

 

2. Temporary tracks in the main have never been much good , they generally tend to rut up. The fact is that the track wasnt dangerous at all, just a couple of issues caused by the track nothing major.

 

3.The riders 'walked out' of the meeting. Nobody called a halt this was rider power. Forget the crap and garbage of all the people towing the party line, the meeting should of continued.

 

If we see a track later in the series where riders are hitting ruts all the time and the meeting continues then there needs to be repurcussions for all the riders.

 

The track was difficult but the main issue seemed to be the start gate not the track

 

It hasn't dawned on you how ridiculous this comment is?

ignore the troll mate.

[E I Addio 15,843]

 

I can tell you that Jim Lawrence,s view of the start line was as expected (above and looking down) so he wouldn't have seen the tapes going up unevenly, his replay view from another angle was also high looking down and didn't give a clear front view that most fans got.(why he only got that view I don't know)

 

Doyle was excluded because of instructions given on green light starting at the riders briefing by Steele and Morris and on the fact he made a big jump at the gate rather than a small one, to be fair I didn't have a problem with Doyle,s exclusion he shouldn't have moved until the light went out and he clearly did, no one else had any problems and in fact the rest of the GL starts went without incident.

FIM rules allow for a flag start in the event of a starting gate & GL failure so it could have been worse.

 

 

Fair comment. Its not quite what the Star says but it makes no difference. If the SS version is correct then the worst that can be said is that other refs might have made different judgments but Lawrence was working within the latitude allowed under the rules so any criticism would at most be minor. If your facts are correct then he was a victim of the generally shambolic organisation. I don't doubt what you say, given the general background of organisational incompetence

 

As far as Doyles exclusion is concerned I didn't have a problem with the exclusion itself, but the long delay in announcing the decision made it seem at the time that the referee was dithering and indecisive. However we now know the problem was that the exclusion lights weren't working nor was the referees telephone to the pits so again it was the shambolic organisation of the event. So I happy to say that based on what we now know my original criticism of Lawrence's decisions appears to have been ill-founded, and you have made some valid comments.

 

 

The track was difficult but the main issue seemed to be the start gate not the track

 

 

 

Not what Steve Brandon said. But what would he know ? He was only in the pit lane talking to the riders.

[BWitcher 12,453]

The rest of the time was spent on the tapes-continually adjusting,testing for a good 30-40 minutes.

 

Which perhaps suggests once again that this was the primary issue with the riders..

[nw42 2,048]

Seriously people this is so black and white im confused by the comments.

 

1. The start tapes failed. This meant the riders had to use the green light. Not ideal in any meeting let alone a grand prix. However what this meant was that in actual fact the starts seemed fairer, which some riders did not agree with.

 

2. Temporary tracks in the main have never been much good , they generally tend to rut up. The fact is that the track wasnt dangerous at all, just a couple of issues caused by the track nothing major.

 

3.The riders 'walked out' of the meeting. Nobody called a halt this was rider power. Forget the crap and garbage of all the people towing the party line, the meeting should of continued.

 

If we see a track later in the series where riders are hitting ruts all the time and the meeting continues then there needs to be repurcussions for all the riders.

 

The track was difficult but the main issue seemed to be the start gate not the track

ignore the troll mate.

 

 

It's 'so black and white' but you then say it 'seemed' to be the starting gate that was the issue, not factual then?

 

This thread has revealed things that most of us would not have been aware of yet you complain that it's still going, stop contributing to it if you want it to end. It's a decent thread imo because in the main it hasn't descended into snide remarks and backbiting.

 

Just sayin'

[brandonbee48 1,194]

First stirrings of legal action.

 

http://www.sportowefakty.pl/zuzel/516401/pierwsze-pozwy-przeciwko-pzm-zlozone

 

Polish organisers get sued. Polish organisers sue BSI. BSI sue the riders. Riders sue Ole Olsen.. Olsen sues the shale supplier........... This one will run and run and run... The lawyers will ensure that. Regards. Alan.

Edited April 24, 2015 by brandonbee48

[Jacques 3,114]

Harris states the track was unraceable so was it worse than when he won the cardiff gp because the track that night looked far worse to me unless we have moved on and what used to be acceptable isnt anymore.

 

Where is this please?