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Kenny Carter Dvd.

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A tapes exclusion always counted as a ride and 0 points on a riders average...no idea when that changed but it was definitely still in existence in that Gundersen year..it was also used as a tactical aid to get an off form rider's ride out of the way

As for Carter...I think he had had his chance of being World Champ when he died....I was convinced he would be around 81 to 83 or so but I think his time had gone in many ways, possibly due to his injuries and the total emergence of Gundersen and Nielsen...I certainly don't think he'd have won in 85 and he didn't look quite the same rider to me by then as in 81 and 82 in particular...

We will never know but I just don't think he'd have gone on and won one.

I actually think we think that Nielsen/Gundersen were better than they were, great riders dont get me wrong they did it and are in the roll of honour but Carter in 85 certainly could of won it.Saying that i don't think he was as good at Odsal Bradford than he was at the shay.NIelsen/Gundersen were great riders but i think thing's landed in there lap a bit over a period going up to Jan o and Sam/and potentially double champion Jonsson.

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I actually think we think that Nielsen/Gundersen were better than they were, great riders dont get me wrong they did it and are in the roll of honour but Carter in 85 certainly could of won it.Saying that i don't think he was as good at Odsal Bradford than he was at the shay.NIelsen/Gundersen were great riders but i think thing's landed in there lap a bit over a period going up to Jan o and Sam/and potentially double champion Jonsson.

Personally, I take an unfashionable view. I don't believe that Carter was anywhere near as good as Gundersen and Nielsen. You need a cool head to be World Champion and that part of Carter was lacking.

 

Awaits flak.

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I actually think we think that Nielsen/Gundersen were better than they were, great riders dont get me wrong they did it and are in the roll of honour but Carter in 85 certainly could of won it.Saying that i don't think he was as good at Odsal Bradford than he was at the shay.NIelsen/Gundersen were great riders but i think thing's landed in there lap a bit over a period going up to Jan o and Sam/and potentially double champion Jonsson.

Wow thats and incredibly bold statement both were phenomenal from 1984 -89 when Erik suffered his accident then Hans carried on up until the mid 90's

Never Nielsens biggest fan much preferred Erik but there is no getting away from just how good both were. If Erik hasnt had suffered his accident he also would have carried on with Hans dominating for more years.

 

Two absolute legends of the shale and Carter, as good as he was, cant be mentioned in the same breath when talking about top riers in the sport

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Carter needed his tunnel-vision way to remain successful and reminds me a little of Nicki Pedersen because of this.

 

A brilliant crowd-puller, Carter's last meeting, if I recall, saw him struggle in the meeting and only win a run-off to navigate a world semi at his home track. Maybe that memory tarnishes what he achieved as a speedway rider alone.

 

He clearly had off-track problems and seemed less hungry on it.

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I can't agree that Nielsen and Gundersen were over-rated or that we think they were better than they were. I'm also sure Carter had it in him to win the title, though sadly events prevented us from ever knowing. None the less, I thought he was great.

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I can't agree that Nielsen and Gundersen were over-rated or that we think they were better than they were. I'm also sure Carter had it in him to win the title, though sadly events prevented us from ever knowing. None the less, I thought he was great.

Not overated no way, i believe they were both great riders legends both of them Nielsen/Gundo my point really was that decade really opened up for them.In my mind up to 83 Lee,Carter,Sigalos,Sanders(who had really upped his game)had all decent head to head records against them both within three and a bit years all of them were gone.I loved watching Gundersen a great rider,always supported him to beat NIelsen Nielsen though was some rider and i was wrong about him he has to be in the all time best six riders of all time. Edited by sidney
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Most of that riders in that era are billed as being better than they were.

 

Had the current format existed I can absolutely GUARANTEE you that many of them you wouldn't have thought anywhere near as highly.

 

The simple facts are the top riders in each team didn't race each other very much, there was no Heat 13 and 15, you rarely saw them get beat and their status of being stars was cemented.

 

I'm far from saying they weren't good riders, because they were but in all eras you always have 2 or 3 riders who stand out from the rest.

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Most of that riders in that era are billed as being better than they were.

 

Had the current format existed I can absolutely GUARANTEE you that many of them you wouldn't have thought anywhere near as highly.

 

The simple facts are the top riders in each team didn't race each other very much, there was no Heat 13 and 15, you rarely saw them get beat and their status of being stars was cemented.

 

I'm far from saying they weren't good riders, because they were but in all eras you always have 2 or 3 riders who stand out from the rest.

Those great riders named believe me would of been great in any era,the same with Craven,Briggs,Mauger,Moore,Fundin (ect).Thinking about it now god Nielsen would of had a field day in our inferior EL product whatever the format.

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Those great riders named believe me would of been great in any era,the same with Craven,Briggs,Mauger,Moore,Fundin (ect).Thinking about it now god Nielsen would of had a field day in our inferior EL product whatever the format.

 

Nielsen, Gundersen, Craven, Briggs, Moore, Fundin etc were all time great riders.

 

Kenny Carter, Billy Sanders were not.

 

The inferior EL is irrelevant, although Nielsen would still not have achieved as high an average in it as he did most seasons in the old format.

 

A more applicable comparison is the Polish or Swedish League.

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Most of that riders in that era are billed as being better than they were.

 

Had the current format existed I can absolutely GUARANTEE you that many of them you wouldn't have thought anywhere near as highly.

 

The simple facts are the top riders in each team didn't race each other very much, there was no Heat 13 and 15, you rarely saw them get beat and their status of being stars was cemented.

 

I'm far from saying they weren't good riders, because they were but in all eras you always have 2 or 3 riders who stand out from the rest.

 

That is so true. One of the reasons the EL appears to be weaker than it actually is, is that the top stars get beaten more often by each other. The other thing is that modern engines are so sensitive to getting the, set up dead right that the difference between the top men and the also rans is narrower than it used to be. If Gundersen etc were riding today they would still be very good but would have to work much harder to stay at the top.

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That is so true. One of the reasons the EL appears to be weaker than it actually is, is that the top stars get beaten more often by each other. The other thing is that modern engines are so sensitive to getting the, set up dead right that the difference between the top men and the also rans is narrower than it used to be. If Gundersen etc were riding today they would still be very good but would have to work much harder to stay at the top.

Another possible reason could be the fact that any 'top line' Riders in the Elite League keep their best engines for Poland, Sweden etc. and just use their secondary engines over here.

 

How else do we explain the low Points return from the then World Champion in the Elite League last Season.

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That is so true. One of the reasons the EL appears to be weaker than it actually is, is that the top stars get beaten more often by each other. The other thing is that modern engines are so sensitive to getting the, set up dead right that the difference between the top men and the also rans is narrower than it used to be. If Gundersen etc were riding today they would still be very good but would have to work much harder to stay at the top.

Are you serious utter tosh! he would have a field day whatever track gate whatever stats you throw at us.Have a rethink going back years up until Gundersen (ect) the league was harder most teams had a good five and four at home and riders like PC at three and a decent no 1.Honestly Addio you are quite clued on on most subjects but i recon you are a bit off the mark in this instance,Alot of teams years ago had a decent home advantage/ most travelled badly, at home they were a force.Dress it up as much as you like the EL is an average product living off the scraps pretty average Gundersen/Nielsen both with there gating prowess whatever gate would be licking there lips nowadays in Britain.Also your point about the best and also rans is confusing what is a also ran in your view? a junior? Edited by sidney

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It's amazing how many unbeatable, dominant riders there were according to Sidney.

 

The more he says that, the more he actually strengthens the argument that I and E I Addio have put forward.

 

Sidney, it's very simple. Take the top 10 riders from the 80's, put them in the format it is now and they would end up with similar averages to the current top 10.

 

Nielsen at his best would be higher, but that would mean other members of the top 10 would be lower.

 

Likewise, that the current top 10, put them in a format as was from early 80's, you'd have a number of 10pters, and the rest 9+.

 

It's maths, it can't be argued against.

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It's amazing how many unbeatable, dominant riders there were according to Sidney.

 

The more he says that, the more he actually strengthens the argument that I and E I Addio have put forward.

 

Sidney, it's very simple. Take the top 10 riders from the 80's, put them in the format it is now and they would end up with similar averages to the current top 10.

 

Nielsen at his best would be higher, but that would mean other members of the top 10 would be lower.

 

Likewise, that the current top 10, put them in a format as was from early 80's, you'd have a number of 10pters, and the rest 9+.

 

It's maths, it can't be argued against.

OH YES I CAN!!! :party: :party: :party: :party: :party:

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OH YES I CAN!!! :party: :party: :party: :party: :party:

Getting in to the Christmas Panto spirit...OH NO you CAN'T!.

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