ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted February 26, 2015 Think that 7 was correct - he had been riding in the Elitserien for four (yes four) years. Palovaraa wasn't a bad signing on paper... ...but on track, well ..not so impressive. I think that might change this year tho ;-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joseq7 360 Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) Thats just not true. Apart from one season when each teams was allowed to sign one work permit rider so Dyer, Sedgemen, Mark Jones, Ward and a few others were allowed to ride NL, Aussies have not been allowed to ride NL. Until about 2010ish they had to come in on a 7 in the PL and until 2001 a 9. So you only had the decent ones. They made it 5 and Glasgow signed anyone with an Aussie accent up in the hope of striking it lucky. They must have signed about 8 or 9 Aussies since the rules let them in on a 5 and only Grajzonek has got the 5 - they struck it lucky with Mason Campton in that Workington bought him off them for some odd reasons. Between the rest of them I don't think they got a 4 pointer average!I agree with your general point but as a matter of accuracy you missed out Nick Morris on the decent signing list. I know he's technically not Australian in terms of his license but he's Australian really. Our garbage signings certainly wasn't and isn't limited to antipodeans. We've signed plenty of duff Europeans too. Edited February 26, 2015 by Joseq7 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlanF 295 Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) Joey Ringwood Victor Palovaara Harley Horwood Jayden O'Malley Marek Mroz Rafal Konopka Kurt Shields All those names disprove your point. Promoters will still sign them. edit > How could I forget Mitchell Davey. And there was Damien Koppe. I bet half of them didn't actually qualify for a permit as I seriously doubt they made top 4 in a state final! So we are legislating to save promoters from their own incompetence? Most of those were Glasgow signings and the only team they hurt was Glasgow.To be fair, your idea of top 8 in Aussie Championships is probably fair (don't know about US or NZ), but I still think they should never be able to drop below 7.00 for team building purposes even if they are in the top 8. Edited February 26, 2015 by AlanF Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted February 26, 2015 So we are legislating to save promoters from their own incompetence? Most of those were Glasgow signings and the only team they hurt was Glasgow.To be fair, your idea of top 8 in Aussie Championships is probably fair (don't know about US or NZ), but I still think they should never be able to drop below 7.00 for team building purposes even if they are in the top 8. We're legislating to make sure stupid promoters don't force EU workers out of a job for 12 months by signing crud from outside the EU - which is the idea of work permits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roger MARTIN 128 Posted February 26, 2015 Thats just not true. Apart from one season when each teams was allowed to sign one work permit rider so Dyer, Sedgemen, Mark Jones, Ward and a few others were allowed to ride NL, Aussies have not been allowed to ride NL. Until about 2010ish they had to come in on a 7 in the PL and until 2001 a 9. So you only had the decent ones. They made it 5 and Glasgow signed anyone with an Aussie accent up in the hope of striking it lucky. They must have signed about 8 or 9 Aussies since the rules let them in on a 5 and only Grajzonek has got the 5 - they struck it lucky with Mason Campton in that Workington bought him off them for some odd reasons. Between the rest of them I don't think they got a 4 pointer average! Did I not say one season in the N. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted February 26, 2015 Did I not say one season in the N. You said it was rare for an Aussie to go straight into the PL. I think 1 season in nearly 20 of the NL running is the very definition of rare. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roger MARTIN 128 Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) You said it was rare for an Aussie to go straight into the PL. I think 1 season in nearly 20 of the NL running is the very definition of rare. Tod Kurtz had three seasons at Newport, 2009, 2010, and 2011, now that was rare. Edited February 26, 2015 by Devildodger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted February 26, 2015 Tod Kurtz had three seasons at Newport, 2009, 2010, and 2011, now that was rare. Todd Kurtz the rider with the British parentage? The likes of Joey Ringwood, Harley Horwood, Jayden O'Malley and Kurt Shields are not allowed to ride in the NL. And apart form one season (which it's entirely possible the UKBA/UKVI were not aware of) never have been. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roger MARTIN 128 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Todd Kurtz the rider with the British parentage? The likes of Joey Ringwood, Harley Horwood, Jayden O'Malley and Kurt Shields are not allowed to ride in the NL. And apart form one season (which it's entirely possible the UKBA/UKVI were not aware of) never have been. Did I say he didn't have British Parentage, my question is why, the year you are talking about, when Australians were in the NL, was in my opinion a good year, since then the league has before a joke, i'm not saying that all Australians that want to come over should be allowed to ride in that league, but it would be a good league for some that want to come over with a lower cma, instead of saying to some that don't qualify, end of you cant come over. Edited February 27, 2015 by Devildodger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Najjer 2,889 Posted February 27, 2015 Did I say he didn't have British Parentage, my question is why, the year you are talking about, when Australians were in the NL, was in my opinion a good year, since then the league has before a joke, i'm not saying that all Australians that want to come over should be allowed to ride in that league, but it would be a good league for some that want to come over with a lower cma, instead of saying to some that don't qualify, end of you cant come over. That's the whole point - if they don't qualify then stay home and get better so they are good enough to qualify. Not come over, get better in our leagues and then carry on into Europe after using us as a training base. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roger MARTIN 128 Posted February 27, 2015 That's the whole point - if they don't qualify then stay home and get better so they are good enough to qualify. Not come over, get better in our leagues and then carry on into Europe after using us as a training base. And you knew that was going to happen, they have been doing that for years, but not all have been good enough to do that, and what riders go to Europe and not stay in the British league, all riders want to ride in Europe, not just Australians, Kyle Newman will be riding in Europe this year, its not stopping him from riding in the British league, yes they do use the British league has a stepping stone, but who is to blame for that, and your not happy if an Australian uses Somerset has a training base, and get a 7 or 8 average on the way, and helping you win the league in doing so. I'm not against a standard for riders coming into this Country to ride in the British league, but this will just shift from Australia to the EU, and we will get overated riders coming into the league from there, and that's not going to help British speedway, I have been a critic of to many Australians coming into the league in the past, but you have to admit if it wasn't for them the league would I feel be less interesting, some of the best riders I have seen around the SBA at Plymouth, have been Aussies, Jason Doyle the best of them, but to just drop this on them, with no warning they were going to do it, is in my opinion is not helping anyone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted February 27, 2015 What, no warning that they were going to enforce rules that have been in place for 5 years? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Najjer 2,889 Posted February 27, 2015 And you knew that was going to happen, they have been doing that for years, but not all have been good enough to do that, and what riders go to Europe and not stay in the British league, all riders want to ride in Europe, not just Australians, Kyle Newman will be riding in Europe this year, its not stopping him from riding in the British league, yes they do use the British league has a stepping stone, but who is to blame for that, and your not happy if an Australian uses Somerset has a training base, and get a 7 or 8 average on the way, and helping you win the league in doing so. I'm not against a standard for riders coming into this Country to ride in the British league, but this will just shift from Australia to the EU, and we will get overated riders coming into the league from there, and that's not going to help British speedway, I have been a critic of to many Australians coming into the league in the past, but you have to admit if it wasn't for them the league would I feel be less interesting, some of the best riders I have seen around the SBA at Plymouth, have been Aussies, Jason Doyle the best of them, but to just drop this on them, with no warning they were going to do it, is in my opinion is not helping anyone. How to completely miss the point in 2 paragraphs No one is against Australians riding over here, matter of fact I think 99.9% of people think it's a great idea - if they are good enough and not some dud like we have seen in the past. Using the National League to make them better is an absolute non starter. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roger MARTIN 128 Posted February 27, 2015 How to completely miss the point in 2 paragraphs No one is against Australians riding over here, matter of fact I think 99.9% of people think it's a great idea - if they are good enough and not some dud like we have seen in the past. Using the National League to make them better is an absolute non starter. Says you, did you say that when they were allowed to ride in the NL, so it didn't make Ward, Dyer, Summers better. What, no warning that they were going to enforce rules that have been in place for 5 years? What rule is that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Najjer 2,889 Posted February 27, 2015 Says you, did you say that when they were allowed to ride in the NL, so it didn't make Ward, Dyer, Summers better. What rule is that. Exactly the reason they shouldn't be allowed in the National League - a League designed to develop BRITISH riders You are now using Starman logic where you start argueing against yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
