Redcar V Somerset Thursday 9th July

[racers and royals 8,711]

Whilst I don`t agree with the SCB decision , at least they have explained the situation in full. moving on here is a suggestion for the BSPA/ SCB.

When the new months green sheets are issued around about the 3rd week of the month(24th June it was for July) JUST include the averages appertaining to the NEW month- AND MAKE THAT VERY CLEAR-because at the moment the June`s averages are there(column A) with the Junes +5%(column C) with July sandwiched in-between.

So that would result in much clearer paperwork June`s average`s would be only on one issue( obviously further changes appertaining to the particular month could be issued as now) and then July`s would then only be on one issue(plus subsequent changes during the month as now)

 

Edit to illustrate the change suggested above I find it interesting that in Graham Reeves statement he doesn`t mention the July average issue 16 but issue 18(June 29th) and issue 19 (3rd July). Issue 19 was only done for the Peterborough change and therefore is not the norm.

Edited July 12, 2015 by racers and royals

[arnieg 3,613]

As harsh as it is on Somerset the BSPA have at least applied their own rules.

There is a clear section about timings of protests and this was not met.

It should of course never have happened in the first place but ALL parties have some part in the responsibility for it.

Agreed

 

If Somerset are so keen on retrospective appeals then I trust they will accept it when their rivals appeal over the incorrect average awarded to Brady Kurtz last year and his score is removed from all 2014 matches!

 

In this case there were mistakes by all parties, and the key word is mistake.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,692]

Bit what's to stop another PL protesting now as this is the first time they have found out about it? It's not just Somerset who have lost out here - anyone battling Redcar for league places has been cheated.

can see where youre coming from but I dont think there is any specific provision for a protest from a team not involved in the match.

This is likely to mean that even if you accept a protest from another team is acceptable then the same stated timescales apply - however inpractical that may be.

[gusworld 15]

Shocking decision and it sends a clear message that you can break the rules and still get away with it. Not a good day for the integrity of speedway.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,692]

Shocking decision and it sends a clear message that you can break the rules and still get away with it. Not a good day for the integrity of speedway.

thats just the point no one initially thought any rules were broken - not Redcar not Somerset and not the referee.

 

The mistake was only queried after which is then outside the clearly stated protest timescales.

 

Unfortnate that it has happened but certainly not cheating as some have argued.

[Najjer 2,871]

As harsh as it is on Somerset the BSPA have at least applied their own rules.

There is a clear section about timings of protests and this was not met.

It should of course never have happened in the first place but ALL parties have some part in the responsibility for it.

I have already posted near enough the same as this earlier in the thread totalling agreeing that all three parties take responsibility. However, that is almost irrelevant now the mistake has been spotted and something can be done about it - instead a blind eye has been turned to it. It's a standard now that cheating will be tolerated and completely acceptable.

thats just the point no one initially thought any rules were broken - not Redcar not Somerset and not the referee.

 

The mistake was only queried after which is then outside the clearly stated protest timescales.

 

Unfortnate that it has happened but certainly not cheating as some have argued.

Agreed about the first part of your post, and certainly quieres the logic behind the timescale in that rule, but that's another debate for another day.....

 

I think to just sweep this under the carpet and say "oh well they all messed up, don't let it happen again" in a professional sport is madness.

[ch958 2,389]

NOTHING is being swept under the carpet - the rules have been applied. NOBODY cheated - it was incompetence all round

 

all 3 parties agreed the r/r riders beforehand - lets not forget that - the most pertinent fact here

 

lets move on for Gods sake otherwise its just tennis - this is wrong - no its right

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

NOTHING is being swept under the carpet - the rules have been applied. NOBODY cheated - it was incompetence all round

 

all 3 parties agreed the r/r riders beforehand - lets not forget that - the most pertinent fact here

 

lets move on for Gods sake otherwise its just tennis - this is wrong - no its right

I agree. This hasn't been ignored.

 

And it isn't deliberate cheating, either. It is - as you correctly say - a catalogue of mistakes.

 

What we have is a full and complete explanation of the actions and circumstances and a ruling that in such circumstances there is no ground to amend the result. If memory serves me correctly, that is entirely consistent with other judgements where the same position has applied.

 

Somerset supporters should stop pointing fingers at the SCB (or BSPA) and start looking elsewhere for someone to blame. Their management were totally happy until they started losing.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Halifaxtiger

[lucifer sam 3,953]

One thing I find odd is that I didn't think the referee was supposed to use the club's match programme. Isn't he supposed to use the Kandysoft-supplied programme, which would have had the correct averages on it?

 

I still can't see how Redcar can be allowed to keep the 3 match points. They've gained from their own error. Yes, the referee made a mistake too in not checking it properly. But it sends out a message to teams try the correct thing to do is to pull a fast one (not suggesting Redcar did on this occasion, I think it was a mistake), and hope the referee and opposing team don't spot it. If you track an illegal rider, then those points should be deducted.

 

The clubs who miss out the most are Plymouth and Scunthorpe, who are currently behind Redcar in the Premier League table on false pretences.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited July 12, 2015 by lucifer sam

[ch958 2,389]

One thing I find odd is that I didn't think the referee was supposed to use the club's match programme. Isn't he supposed to use the Kandysoft-supplied programme, which would have had the correct averages on it?

 

I still can't see how Redcar can be allowed to keep the 3 match points. They've gained from their own error. Yes, the referee made a mistake too in not checking it properly. But it sends out a message to teams try the correct thing to do is to pull a fast one (not suggesting Redcar did on this occasion, I think it was a mistake), and hope the referee and opposing team don't spot it. If you track an illegal rider, then those points should be deducted.

 

The clubs who miss out the most are Plymouth and Scunthorpe, who are currently behind Redcar in the Premier League table on false pretences.

 

All the best

Rob

 

just when you think everythings been explained.......

 

how can you pull a fast one when the names of rr riders are agreed BY EVERYBODY before the match

[lucifer sam 3,953]

 

just when you think everythings been explained.......

 

how can you pull a fast one when the names of rr riders are agreed BY EVERYBODY before the match

 

Whoooosh!!!!

 

I said I didn't think that had happened on this occasion i.e. I said I thought Redcar had made a mistake.

 

You might want to read people's posts properly before replying to them.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited July 12, 2015 by lucifer sam

[bigcatdiary 3,164]

One thing I find odd is that I didn't think the referee was supposed to use the club's match programme. Isn't he supposed to use the Kandysoft-supplied programme, which would have had the correct averages on it?

 

I still can't see how Redcar can be allowed to keep the 3 match points. They've gained from their own error. Yes, the referee made a mistake too in not checking it properly. But it sends out a message to teams try the correct thing to do is to pull a fast one (not suggesting Redcar did on this occasion, I think it was a mistake), and hope the referee and opposing team don't spot it. If you track an illegal rider, then those points should be deducted.

 

The clubs who miss out the most are Plymouth and Scunthorpe, who are currently behind Redcar in the Premier League table on false pretences.

 

All the best

Rob

 

I would think the referee fills in the riders and averages from the line ups supplied by the teams, I still don't understand why the averages were not checked against the latest issue of the GSA but for him and the team managers to all miss it is odd, I agree that teams shouldn't benefit from this sort of mistake and Redcar clearly have, I also don't agree with the SCB decision not to alter the score.

 

This sort of decision hardly sets a good example going forward.

[lucifer sam 3,953]

 

I would think the referee fills in the riders and averages from the line ups supplied by the teams, I still don't understand why the averages were not checked against the latest issue of the GSA but for him and the team managers to all miss it is odd, I agree that teams shouldn't benefit from this sort of mistake and Redcar clearly have, I also don't agree with the SCB decision not to alter the score.

 

This sort of decision hardly sets a good example going forward.

 

Agreed. It is shocking that (a) all three parties could miss it (b ) Redcar should be allowed to gain from their mistake.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited July 12, 2015 by lucifer sam

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

One thing I find odd is that I didn't think the referee was supposed to use the club's match programme. Isn't he supposed to use the Kandysoft-supplied programme, which would have had the correct averages on it?

 

I still can't see how Redcar can be allowed to keep the 3 match points. They've gained from their own error. Yes, the referee made a mistake too in not checking it properly. But it sends out a message to teams try the correct thing to do is to pull a fast one (not suggesting Redcar did on this occasion, I think it was a mistake), and hope the referee and opposing team don't spot it. If you track an illegal rider, then those points should be deducted.

 

The clubs who miss out the most are Plymouth and Scunthorpe, who are currently behind Redcar in the Premier League table on false pretences.

 

All the best

Rob

Its not just their error, its the referee's and Somerset's as well.

 

The thing is though is that not to take action is - for right or wrong - the rule that applies in this case and its been applied consistently and explained in detail. I get annoyed when the rules of the sport are deliberately flouted and no explanation at all is given (Bradley Wilson Dean's PL average is one that springs to mind)but that's not the case here.

 

You make fair point about an illegal ride and whether it should stand, but if the clubs don't like it then it is in their power to change the situation.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Halifaxtiger

[lucifer sam 3,953]

Its not just their error, its the referee's and Somerset's as well.

 

The thing is though is that not to take action is - for right or wrong - the rule that applies in this case and its been applied consistently and explained in detail. I get annoyed when the rules of the sport are deliberately flouted and no explanation at all is given (Bradley Wilson Dean's PL average is one that springs to mind)but that's not the case here.

 

You make fair point about an illegal ride and whether it should stand, but if the clubs don't like it then it is in their power to change the situation.

 

HT, yes there were mistakes all around, after Redcar's original error with the averages.

 

And I agree, we have been given a full explanation of what happened in this case.

 

But I still think it really does send out very much the wrong message in allowing an illegal ride to stand. And Redcar now have three PL points that they should not have.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited July 12, 2015 by lucifer sam