stewmac 471 Posted October 19, 2015 For those wanting to know about the meetings. 1st Leg - Paid £20. Got programme. Bought scarf, pens, car stickers, mugs, ladies lingerie - in fact anything with leopard skin on it. But not Craig Cook's posing pouch (still in police evidence bag). Cold night. Beer. Parade - Wolbert gets warm welcome - Gripped hands moving up/down at the wrist, booing, etc Stop/start. Stop/start. Stop/start. Bloomin' freezing now. Hot chocolate. Wait for ambulance. Only six heats done by 9:15. Went to toilet, butler handing out towels. Ambulance arrives. Stop/start. James Sarjeant - perfect start, Embra fans (200m away) claim he was moving. Like a bat out of hell leads Craig Cook before he ate dirt. Glasgow fans roar/laugh/boo/cheer/make visual signs/all of the above. Speedway meeting broke out amongst full on, excellent entertainment. Roary and Roxy got hitched. Brass monkey spotted crying. Embra fans/team/promotion/entourage/physios/therapists/freebie hangers on (loads of them)/cleaning ladies/psychologists - complain they can't see anything due to poor lighting - but claim Sarjeant was moving! You decide. Stevie Wonder seen giving a perfect commentary for the meeting DVD. End of season awards and speeches. Letter handed out. Brass monkey taken away in second ambulance. 2nd Leg - Paid zilch. Got a lifty over. Didn't get programme. Got blue rinse and bob hair cut in attempt to blend in with locals. Opened first can of carry out sneaked in. Edinburgh do a professional job. Ed the Monarch spotted in the distance on the centre field making an attempt to entertain (looking like a desperate man in a toilet queue) Glasgow didn't turn up. Saw 4 coloured helmets going passing 3rd/4th hairpin bend 51 times. Should have been 60, but there were fallers - want my money back! James Sarjeant showed he cares - Embra fans saw it as spitting his dummy out. Craig Cook falls off whilst leading by 3 laps - history made. Went to toilet, wished I was wearing my wellies. Wolbert pumps his chest - must be the phlegm. Some Embra official from the safety of the track gesticulates to Tigers fans for 10 minutes to stop flashing - their cameras Craig - cameras! Put it away. Glasgow fans pray he forgets to leave track before racing starts. What a sh!tebag! Ed the Monarch seen running from the dog kennel (sorry, stadium) when rumours spread Walter Palmer (aka Cecil the lion hunter) was in the crowd. Edinburgh won. Put out of misery. Fireworks. Stevie Wonder complained it was too dark. Left Wiped dog poo off shoes (why is there always one at the entrance?) Went home. Cat now at the vets. Finished carry out Cried myself to sleep. Lol, thanks for lightening this whole thread up! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GS550 449 Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) As a club within 30 miles of the Monarchs it is as they are within their rights, find another day. That's just nonsense. There is no logical basis for it. And what's all this arrogance "find another day" attitude. Are you one of these guys in your car that thinks you own the flaming road, you think you "own" Friday as well do you. So how come in other counties they run all the speedway league meetings on the same day then. Are you trying to say that speedway in such as Poland and Sweden is on its knees? Obviously it isn't. Are you seriously suggesting that you will somehow be lured by the prospect of attending Ashfield instead of your beloved Armadale? As Mr McEnroe once said, you cannot be serious. I seriously doubt the attendance is the issue. Plus there is Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday to use. "I seriously doubt attendance is the issue". - so it is recognised that Glasgow won't steal Edinburgh's support. "Plus there is Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday to use" - so why don't Edinburgh use it then! Edited October 19, 2015 by justere2cgoodspeedway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fenway Bleachers 2,665 Posted October 19, 2015 We are happy with Friday thanks. Glasgow wish to change their raceday so must present their case at the right time and persuade the electorate. We have one voice among many. The PL promoters should deal with this as they judged. I hope we abstain and do a Pontius Pilate...... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baba 562 Posted October 19, 2015 I think glasgow would lose out it more if we went on a friday. Edinburgh fans attend ashfield on a regular basis mr jeffers, mr morgan, and mr black so we'd lose three potential fans. gate money=45 Programme=7.50 Jungle balls=9 (three shots each) Beer money= 500 Burger/pies= Well thats and undisclosed three figure sum. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drosser 44 Posted October 19, 2015 It's a derby for the league there was always going to be a few on edge. I don't think the letter the glasgow owners handed out after the meeting on Friday exactly helped as it added more fuel to the fire IMO. I'm not sure how something handed out after the meeting excuses poor behavior a couple of hours beforehand. It may have added an excuse for the Saturday meeting - but only for those looking for an excuse! Its time we all had a good look at ourselves. Wind-up and banter are part of all competitive events but there are always some who take it to another level - particularly when alcohol is involved. Both sides have fans who fit into that category - it might be better if the genuine fans and club officials showed their disapproval. Booze was banned from football coaches and grounds for good reason - too many half wits were abusing it. I know lots of people who enjoy a couple of pints and enjoy their speedway without losing respectability - shame it does not work for all. Congratulations to the Dark Side on another excellent season culminating in the League title. I would love to see you get a better stadium like Ingleston to keep up the Scottish Speedway profile - AND because it is more than 30 miles from Ashfield Congratulations to the Tigs on an excellent season - at least we 'gubbed' the English (joke / banter for those who live in Englandshire - I love English people, really - I just struggle to finish a whole one). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GS550 449 Posted October 19, 2015 I stand with a Glasgow fan who is a season ticket holder at both venues, and there are usually a few other Glasgow fans in our group on nights when Glasgow are not the visitors. So it would definitely affect attendances but by how many is difficult to say. At a guess I would say 25 to 30. If Glasgow were to go Elite (not beyond the realms of possibility) then, in addition to these 25 to 30, a further number of more neutral speedway fans might be tempted west to see the top stars in action. I understand that the Glasgow owners have done their research and think they can maximise their attendances by running on a Friday night - so that's what they want to do. I also understand that Edinburgh don't want to lose even 30 people attending on a Friday night - so they are opposed to this happening. As things stand there appears to be a rule that allows them to object to this, so naturally that is what they are going to do. And, although I'm not party to any conversations between them, I am surprised that the Glasgow owners were (hugely) surprised that this would be Edinburgh's stance. The problem with 'the letter' is that the Glasgow owners basically call the Edinburgh promotion liars and say they do not believe the reasons given for opposing the move. Instead they conclude that "the Monarchs are seeking to hinder our financial income, restrict our fan base growth and limit our ability to sign top riders who race abroad on a Sunday". Wow, that's some conclusion to jump to when all they've said is they don't want you to race on the same night as them. The Glasgow owners then compound this by going on to say they "feel compelled to announce that we will no longer be attending meetings at Armadale, as we don't want to help fund Edinburgh with one penny of our money now that it is clear they have decided to affect our income and growth." This comes across to me as childish, petulant and highly unprofessional. The timing of the message being issued also seemed to be deliberately trying to affect the attendance of Glasgow supporters at Armadale on the Saturday night (having already banked the admission money of the large Edinburgh contingent at Ashfield). This must surely have put a dampener on Glasgow fans excitement at being in the middle of a huge Premier League play-off with their local rivals. Unsure, if by going to support their team in their biggest match for decades, they might be displeasing the owners. I have been hugely impressed by what has happened at Glasgow since the Facenna brothers took over and a lot of goodwill towards Glasgow has been built up over that period. Some of that has been lost by the issuing of this message and I hope it's not too late for them to apologise for some of their comments and sort out the issue in an adult way by discussion with the Edinburgh promotion and going through whatever process is necessary with the BSPA. A well reasoned and well put post. I just happen to disagree with a number of the points. For example, it seems to me that it is the Edinburgh management that have been childish, petulant and unprofessional as well as somewhat arrogant and dictatorial. Lets be clear: Edinburgh's fans will not desert Armadale en mass and go to Ashfield instead, that is just ridiculous. I have also found a number of Edinburgh's fans to be extremely hostile and arrogant, including acting in a foul mouthed, aggressive and intimidating manner even towards innocent bystanders. And less than gracious and overly boastful and arrogant in their win which they diminish by such arrogant behaviour and which I find very undignified on the part of a number of arrogant Edinburgh fans, yourself excluded. Some it seems have never heard of the term "magnanimous in victory", again I exclude yourself from this. Back to the aspect of Edinburgh's management, It seems to me to be so childish to do anything other than be neighbourly, instead it seems Edinburgh's management and a number of its fans delight in being arrogant and hostile towards others. I find it all very sad. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyclone 943 Posted October 19, 2015 I'm not sure how something handed out after the meeting excuses poor behavior a couple of hours beforehand. It may have added an excuse for the Saturday meeting - but only for those looking for an excuse! Its time we all had a good look at ourselves. Wind-up and banter are part of all competitive events but there are always some who take it to another level - particularly when alcohol is involved. Both sides have fans who fit into that category - it might be better if the genuine fans and club officials showed their disapproval. Booze was banned from football coaches and grounds for good reason - too many half wits were abusing it. I know lots of people who enjoy a couple of pints and enjoy their speedway without losing respectability - shame it does not work for all. Congratulations to the Dark Side on another excellent season culminating in the League title. I would love to see you get a better stadium like Ingleston to keep up the Scottish Speedway profile - AND because it is more than 30 miles from Ashfield Congratulations to the Tigs on an excellent season - at least we 'gubbed' the English (joke / banter for those who live in Englandshire - I love English people, really - I just struggle to finish a whole one). Not much chance when those on Friday in the hospitality cabin in the middle between the 3rd/4th bend were suitably tanked up and shouting & gesturing vile abuse towards the Monarchs riders on their parade lap. Returning round at the end of the meeting these morons were more intoxicated and still shouting foul anti-Edinburgh abuse into the night air. What a wonderful environment to bring your kids along to, not ! You have to ask why those providing hospitality continued to fuel these eejits up 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smod 145 Posted October 19, 2015 Something to bear in mind is that when the-then new Glasgow owner made a reasoned and well-presented application to the AGM for a change to Friday nights two years ago, the proposal was considered and voted on by the entire Premier League. The vote went one vote for and thirteen against. Setting any protest by Edinburgh aside, do we really think the change would get better support by the other clubs this time around? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eide67 199 Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) A well reasoned and well put post. I just happen to disagree with a number of the points. For example, it seems to me that it is the Edinburgh management that have been childish, petulant and unprofessional as well as somewhat arrogant and dictatorial. Lets be clear: Edinburgh's fans will not desert Armadale en mass and go to Ashfield instead, that is just ridiculous. I have also found a number of Edinburgh's fans to be extremely hostile and arrogant, including acting in a foul mouthed, aggressive and intimidating manner even towards innocent bystanders. And less than gracious and overly boastful and arrogant in their win which they diminish by such arrogant behaviour and which I find very undignified on the part of a number of arrogant Edinburgh fans, yourself excluded. Some it seems have never heard of the term "magnanimous in victory", again I exclude yourself from this. Back to the aspect of Edinburgh's management, It seems to me to be so childish to do anything other than be neighbourly, instead it seems Edinburgh's management and a number of its fans delight in being arrogant and hostile towards others. I find it all very sad. Okay, fair enough, we'll agree to disagree. I don't think anyone is suggesting Edinburgh fans will desert Armadale en masse, or that even one Edinburgh fan will go to Ashfield rather than Armadale. However they will lose the Glasgow fans that currently attend regularly and perhaps some neutral fans. A move to Friday by Glasgow will certainly not add to attendances at Armadale, so I think it is quite reasonable for the Edinburgh management to oppose it. From a personal point of view I would miss standing with my Glasgow friends every Friday (and occasional Sunday). I am concerned with the aggressive and intimidating behaviour you and others have described. It has no place in speedway. Other than the odd shout across the terraces, I did not witness any on either Friday or Saturday night and I have to say I have never felt intimidated at a speedway meeting (and I have been attending for a very long time). Hopefully it was just a few isolated cases. On Saturday we had the biggest ever crowd at Armadale for a tense important local derby with no crowd segregation, no police and no stewards, and, from where I was standing at least, no trouble. Long may it continue. Edited October 19, 2015 by eide67 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyclone 943 Posted October 20, 2015 Something to bear in mind is that when the-then new Glasgow owner made a reasoned and well-presented application to the AGM for a change to Friday nights two years ago, the proposal was considered and voted on by the entire Premier League. The vote went one vote for and thirteen against. Setting any protest by Edinburgh aside, do we really think the change would get better support by the other clubs this time around? Apart from Peterborough replacing Leicester, the remaining twelve PL clubs are unchanged from 2013.. Scunthorpe changing from a Friday to Sunday could also change their voting intentions, though as Rob Godfrey reckoned Glasgow had reneged on the loan deal agreement for David Howe, by giving him his Tigers debut at Scunny, this might influence as to how he will vote. Also worth noting that by changing from a Friday to a Sunday race-day, you would presume that RG does not see this as an impediment to assembling a competitive side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pogo1 288 Posted October 20, 2015 One thing that is missing in this debate, can someone please tell me who brought the 30 mile rule in regarding same race day, I don't see this rule in the rule book, Imagine been told after you had bought a grocery business that couldn't open it on Saturdays as the one 5 miles down the road opens on Sat too, It's laughable because like most things in speedway it's outdated , 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Angus 79 Posted October 20, 2015 One thing that is missing in this debate, can someone please tell me who brought the 30 mile rule in regarding same race day, I don't see this rule in the rule book, Imagine been told after you had bought a grocery business that couldn't open it on Saturdays as the one 5 miles down the road opens on Sat too, It's laughable because like most things in speedway it's outdated , It isn't a rule, mate. It is the joint agreement which has existed since the British League was formed in1965, and which almost certainly existed in some form since the SCB allowed the creation of league speedway in 1946. The tracks are all members of a club (called the League) and they protect each other from invasion of each others' business interests. This means no track can be opened in opposition to an existing league member (nor change to a joint racenight) without the approval of the other tracks in the "club". How would Glasgow feel if it was suddenly announced that a new promotion was about to re-open at Shawfield and intended to race in the Premier League on Sundays, Fridays or whenever? But they wouldn't have to worry because, however rich and powerful the new people at Shawfield were, the BSPA simply wouldn't agree to their impinging on Ashfield's business. The new people would be told they couldn't join the "club" and the Tigers' interests would be protected. Which is why the previous attempt to return Glasgow to Fridays was virtually black-balled by the other tracks -- and it is why any current efforts to do the same will suffer the same fate. Move on. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Young51 156 Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) You say: "Usual guff" in reference to my post. My post made reasoned points and you should not be so ill mannered, discourteous and insulting as to refer to my reasoned points in such manner. Instead your post as quoted above is full of vitriol and which I find vulgar. It appears you have never heard of the saying "magnanimous in victory". Instead your post is full of derisory insulting language e,g, "Slashfield" and which is rather churlish, uncouth and unbecoming, then going on to be full of self-proclaimed boasting and yob-like behaviour including other juvenile yob-like acronyms as "GIRUYT". What age are you twelve? All rather unseemly and every such post that is made and yob-like proclamation such as your post quoted above devalues the achievement of winning a league title and you lose the respect of others. And it was not at all "spot on" as you errantly put it, you are well wide of the mark and you clearly know nothing about me. It also appears that you overlook that I originally mentioned a foul-mouthed Edinburgh fan at Armadale on Saturday whose behaviour was aggressive, using foul mouthed language, inciteful and deliberately intimidating to innocent bystanders. I then only answered the points of another poster and which I did in good faith. If you wish to behave in a juvenile-like and yob-like manner then kindly do not involve me. Thank you. I humbly apoligize Sir..the usual guff i was referring to was the guff from the Glasgow promotion more than your 'well reasoned guff' per se..nowt personal really..Although i will say towards you politely..get a bloody sense of humour or put me on ignore..i couldnt really care tbh.. I'm, sure if shock horror Glasgow had won us Monarchs would have 'got it tight' on here and rightly so but in a good natured bantering sort of way because thats how i roll too..Glasgow fans and others call Armadale Armadump but i dont start boo-hooing about it..life is short..have a laugh or whats the bloody point? Those that know me know i'm not 'yobbish' at all..how you choose to interpret my post is your affair..thank you Edited October 20, 2015 by Young51 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GS550 449 Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) It isn't a rule, mate. It is the joint agreement which has existed since the British League was formed in1965, and which almost certainly existed in some form since the SCB allowed the creation of league speedway in 1946. The tracks are all members of a club (called the League) and they protect each other from invasion of each others' business interests. This means no track can be opened in opposition to an existing league member (nor change to a joint racenight) without the approval of the other tracks in the "club". How would Glasgow feel if it was suddenly announced that a new promotion was about to re-open at Shawfield and intended to race in the Premier League on Sundays, Fridays or whenever? But they wouldn't have to worry because, however rich and powerful the new people at Shawfield were, the BSPA simply wouldn't agree to their impinging on Ashfield's business. The new people would be told they couldn't join the "club" and the Tigers' interests would be protected. Which is why the previous attempt to return Glasgow to Fridays was virtually black-balled by the other tracks -- and it is why any current efforts to do the same will suffer the same fate. Move on. A well reasoned and well put post. I also came within about 2 seconds of clicking the "Like" option. There's a couple of things though if you could help clarify or explain. You mention about this agreement existing from 1965 and being in place in some form since about 1946 etc. So how can we explain Glasgow and Edinburgh both running on the same night, Friday, for years e.g. when Glasgow were at Blantyre, then Blantyre 2, then Shawfield, covering the 70, 80's and 90's. Both Glasgow and Edinburgh ran on a Friday night and happily co-existed so what's the problem with them both running on a Friday now. Was it not the case that Friday was always Glasgow's race night anyway (I don't know fer sure so it is a question). And then when Monarchs had to move to Powderhall in the 70's they could only get Friday racing there and they were allowed, or not objected to, by Glasgow. If that's the case then is it not reasonable to expect Edinburgh to "return the favour". Then there's the modern day aspect. Times have changed. The sport has changed. The world is a different place and even speedway has changed, different engines, different rules that keep changing every season or so. The needs and circumstances, the business world, etc, have all changed. If any business, or sport for that matter, doesn't keep up with the times it will fall by the wayside. Poland has a much bigger influence now and riders tend to race there on Sundays to the extent that riders that would otherwise be available the rest of the week are not available on Sundays. Tracks which race on other days now have an unfair advantage that didn't used to be there. To put it another way, tracks that race on Sundays are at an unfair disadvantage, a situation that did not exist when the rules or agreement you refer to was made. It is no longer fit for purpose. Then there's the big city teams aspect. The sport has advocated over the years that such teams benefit the sport overall. On that score it would surely be in the interests of the sport to have a big city team that is thriving and that would also point to changing the raceday back to Fridays as was always Glasgow's racenight anyway - and which Glasgow allowed Edinburgh to also race on in the 70, 80, and 90's. Food for thought. Edited October 20, 2015 by justere2cgoodspeedway 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheScotsman 2,483 Posted October 20, 2015 Such a shame that a thread about the greatest 2 evenings in Scottish speedway history has ended up with such petty arguments about which I doubt anyone knows the whole story. The BSPA MC will make the final decision I expect not the promotions. The thread has become as tedious as most Berwick ones and that is saying something! So to end with - well done Monarchs / hard luck Tigers. And let battle commence again in March. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
