Terry 1,319 Posted December 13, 2015 I don't know what Penhall said but in guessing he pointed out that Carter was a prick for killing himself and his wife leaving his children without their parents. Well he was a prick, I say that as someone who has loved watching Kenny on video but try all you like, you'll not convince me he was anything but the lowest of the low as a person. As for Bruce, typical cheesy American for me. Didn't like him "as a person" from what I've seen on video and read. But as a rider, he could do magic things on a bike. As for the White City incident, numerous riders have done similar. Joe Screen shut off for Mark Loram in Poland to help him win a World title, Martin Dugard "had an EF" to get Havvy a point in the '99 overseas(?) final to allow Havvy to qualify. Hampel shut off in his last ride of the 2002ish U21 final to let a fellow Pole have a point to get him 3rd after Hampel had already won the title. It happens. I don't know what Penhall said but in guessing he pointed out that Carter was a prick for killing himself and his wife leaving his children without their parents. Well he was a prick, I say that as someone who has loved watching Kenny on video but try all you like, you'll not convince me he was anything but the lowest of the low as a person. As for Bruce, typical cheesy American for me. Didn't like him "as a person" from what I've seen on video and read. But as a rider, he could do magic things on a bike. As for the White City incident, numerous riders have done similar. Joe Screen shut off for Mark Loram in Poland to help him win a World title, Martin Dugard "had an EF" to get Havvy a point in the '99 overseas(?) final to allow Havvy to qualify. Hampel shut off in his last ride of the 2002ish U21 final to let a fellow Pole have a point to get him 3rd after Hampel had already won the title. It happens. Add to that, Olsen and Gundersen letting Petersen through in the 82 Inter-continental final and Ermolenko and Hancock making sure Larsen went through the 94 Overseas final. Probably dozens more examples. I think what p!ssed people off was how blatant Penhalls actions were. Tootling around at the back popping wheelies. He should've faked an engine failure or slid off. He was probably the most popular champion ever when he won at Wembley, but all that disappeared with that incident. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Endeavour 681 Posted December 13, 2015 Penhall was box office. Will never forget the atmosphere at Wembley in 1981. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted December 13, 2015 Penhall was box office. Will never forget the atmosphere at Wembley in 1981. every promoters dream 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) I'm just guessing, but I think the biggest issue that the crowd had with that race was just how deliberate Bruce made it look. If he had ridden close to the others and looked like he was maybe making an effort he probably wouldn't have got the same abuse, it would just have been a big talking point about whether or not he tried. He made it blatant that he wasn't trying and the sporting Brits didn't like that one bit. The Overseas Final crowds at White City were highly hypocritical. The previous year (1981) one of the final races had featured Ivan Mauger, Michael Lee, Dave Jessup and Larry Ross. Mauger and Lee were in desperate need of points and received them finishing in a co-ordinated 1-2 finish that moved both onto eight points, DJ needed a single point to clinch the title and took it, Larry Ross had already qualified, had only a faint chance of winning (he needed to win the race, with DJ last to get a run-off) and was happy to cruise around in forth place. Poor Les Collins was the victim, as Lee and Mauger's extra points put him out of the World Championship. Did the "sporting Brits" boo Dave Jessup and Larry Ross? Not a sausage. Was it obvious what was happening? Well, no-one was going around pulling wheelies, but even as an 8-year-old at the meeting, I realised what was happening. It was very obvious. The following year I was an extremely annoyed 9-year-old in the White City crowd after Bruce - my hero - was jeered. I really couldn't see any difference between what he'd done and what DJ and Larry Ross had done 12 months previously. All the best Rob Edited December 14, 2015 by lucifer sam 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,935 Posted December 14, 2015 The following year I was an extremely 9-year-old in the White City crowd after Bruce - my hero - was jeered. I really couldn't see any difference between what he'd done and what DJ and Larry Ross had done 12 months previously. All the best Rob Quite an eventful year for you Rob.Getting under the binliner dress of a Bucks Fizz star and then having your hero booed.Sort of explains why yu grew up to be the person you are 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted December 14, 2015 Great rider, no doubt. Not sure that his leaving was the start of the demise of British speedway-can't see that at all. The White City display was the nail in his coffin here. Never one of my favourites, but what told me all I need to know about him were his comments about Kenny Carter in an edition of back track. Carter did a terrible thing, but Penhalls comments were out of order. He never liked Cartwr and simply used that platfo to vilify him. Poor taste from someone who should have known better. What did he say? I find it very hard to believe any comments regarding Carter could be deemed 'out of order'. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,935 Posted December 14, 2015 What did he say? I find it very hard to believe any comments regarding Carter could be deemed 'out of order'. Exactly.I haven't seen the article,but having read a number of Backtrack mags I can't see them as publishing comments that are too scandalous or unfounded Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted December 14, 2015 What did he say? I find it very hard to believe any comments regarding Carter could be deemed 'out of order'. He said that, as a father, he could never forgive Kenny Carter for what he had done - leaving two young kids without their mother. All the best Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted December 14, 2015 He said that, as a father, he could never forgive Kenny Carter for what he had done - leaving two young kids without their mother. All the best Rob How could that in any way be deemed 'out of order'! Seems quite restrained! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RPNY 608 Posted December 14, 2015 Bruce Penhall was a phenomenal Speedway rider and a decent guy. It's a shame we didn't get to see him carry on into his 30s. Little to no doubt he would have added to his world titles. How any one can feel bitter that he A. helped his mates qualify for the next round of the world championship and B. leave Dudley for Hollywood is beyond me! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dave the Mic 258 Posted December 14, 2015 He said that, as a father, he could never forgive Kenny Carter for what he had done - leaving two young kids without their mother. All the best Rob Well, it wasn't quite put like that, was it? I was no lover of Carter & would never defended what he did, but Bruce took advantage of his position to slate Carter mercilessly. I don't condone murder in any way shape or form (obviously), but Bruce was no saint, regardless of what anyone might say & I felt that he should have kept his comments to himself. I'm not saying the comments were "scandalous or unfounded" but regardless of Bruce's feelings, taking advantage of his position as a contributor to backtrack to say what he did wasn't appropriate. If I can find the article, I'll quote it. Don't get me wrong, I think what Carter did was abhorrent, but Penhall (if he's a great guy as everyone seems to think) shouldn't have used his position to make his point. Not that he hasn't done so plenty of times before. Just my opinion. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Endeavour 681 Posted December 14, 2015 How could that in any way be deemed 'out of order'! Seems quite restrained! Totally agree. If Carter hadn't taken his own life, he would have been charged with murder. Tragic for everybody concerned. Especially for his young family left with no mother or father. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted December 14, 2015 Well, it wasn't quite put like that, was it? I was no lover of Carter & would never defended what he did, but Bruce took advantage of his position to slate Carter mercilessly. I don't condone murder in any way shape or form (obviously), but Bruce was no saint, regardless of what anyone might say & I felt that he should have kept his comments to himself. I'm not saying the comments were "scandalous or unfounded" but regardless of Bruce's feelings, taking advantage of his position as a contributor to backtrack to say what he did wasn't appropriate. If I can find the article, I'll quote it. Don't get me wrong, I think what Carter did was abhorrent, but Penhall (if he's a great guy as everyone seems to think) shouldn't have used his position to make his point. Not that he hasn't done so plenty of times before. Just my opinion. Be interesting to see the actual quote, as I still can't think of any comments that would be printed in Backtrack that wouldn't be 'appropriate' when discussing a murderer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) Here's Bruce from the Kenny Carter book by Tony Mac: "I really don't want to say two words about Kenny Carter. In my eyes he was an absolute mental coward for the way he went and left his kids without parents. There are probably stronger words I could use, but that's what comes to my mind right now. "The only reason I agreed to talk about him for this book is that the book is going to make some money for his kids. So good luck with the book. I hope it goes well. "I am a true father, with four kids, and I couldn't, even on my worst day, imagine doing what he did, therefore I don't have one bit of respect for the kid." AND: "I've seen that incident (from the 1982 World Final) with Carter from hundreds of different angles, from footage from the people filming CHiPS, and it clearly shows from the back angle that I never hit Kenny when he fell. "But, you know what... the way I look at it now, after what he did to his wife and children, I wish I would've frickin' put him up in the middle of the grandstand." No controversial at all, in my eyes. Just saying how it is. Many people would agree with such sentiments. All the best Rob Edited December 14, 2015 by lucifer sam 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted December 14, 2015 Here's Bruce from the Kenny Carter book by Tony Mac: "I really don't want to say two words about Kenny Carter. In my eyes he was an absolute mental coward for the way he went and left his kids without parents. There are probably stronger words I could use, but that's what comes to my mind right now. "The only reason I agreed to talk about him for this book is that the book is going to make some money for his kids. So good luck with the book. I hope it goes well. "I am a true father, with four kids, and I couldn't, even on my worst day, imagine doing what he did, therefore I don't have one bit of respect for the kid." AND: "I've seen that incident (from the 1982 World Final) with Carter from hundreds of different angles, from footage from the people filming CHiPS, and it clearly shows from the back angle that I never hit Kenny when he fell. "But, you know what... the way I look at it now, after what he did to his wife and children, I wish I would've frickin' put him up in the middle of the grandstand." No controversial at all, in my eyes. Just saying how it is. Many people would agree with such sentiments. All the best Rob Nice Fella!!! :nono: :mad: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
