European Union - In Or Out?

[iris123 12,045]

3 minutes ago, DC2 said:

Well, that can be done by financial payments.

No need to have an EU army.

The idea that in other areas there is no need possibly with agreement, remember that each individual country has command centres or such, they can be reduced and costs shared...

[DC2 9,361]

10 minutes ago, iris123 said:

The idea that in other areas there is no need possibly with agreement, remember that each individual country has command centres or such, they can be reduced and costs shared...

What do you mean?

Other than reducing command centres and sharing costs you’re talking gibberish.

That is still not an argument for an EU army.  

It would be far easier and more respectful of sovereignty for financial payments to be made to subsidise those countries that have a larger length of EU border and they in turn can share command centres if they wish with adjoining countries.

[dj350z 1,648]

1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

WHILE there were undoubtedly many failures by the UK negotiating team,  the intransigence of the EU team is equally to blame for the position we are in now. They were never going to make it easy to leave their precious politically motivated club but refusing to accept that the UK through a referendum and an election had a moral right to go their own way will come back to bite them. 
Of course there will be economic pain here but EU countries won't be immune either and it was all avoidable with flexibility all round. 

What ever made you think it was avoidable?

We have been constantly told that the EU will roll over because they have more to lose. Now all of a sudden as we edge closer to a catastrophic no-deal they were never going to make it easy for the UK to leave.
Hypocrisy of the highest order!

[DC2 9,361]

10 minutes ago, dj350z said:

What ever made you think it was avoidable?

We have been constantly told that the EU will roll over because they have more to lose. Now all of a sudden as we edge closer to a catastrophic no-deal they were never going to make it easy for the UK to leave.
Hypocrisy of the highest order!

Both of those points are true.

The EU has £100 billion more exports to the UK than we to them and so it has more to lose and if it were acting in the interests of its people it would agree a deal.

But the EU politicians want to make the political point that leaving the EU should be difficult, even if that costs their people £100 billion.

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

36 minutes ago, dj350z said:

What ever made you think it was avoidable?

We have been constantly told that the EU will roll over because they have more to lose. Now all of a sudden as we edge closer to a catastrophic no-deal they were never going to make it easy for the UK to leave.
Hypocrisy of the highest order!

NOT sure anyone said the EU would roll over. Or that they have more to lose. The point is not who has the most to lose, it's not a contest, but a fact that many EU countries and industries will be worse off with no deal. 

Of course no deal was avoidable. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by PHILIPRISING

[jrs 2,294]

5 minutes ago, DC2 said:

Both of those points are true.

The EU has £100 billion more exports to the UK than we to them and so it has more to lose and if it were acting in the interests of its people it would agree a deal.

But the EU politicians want to make the political point that leaving the EU should be difficult, even if that costs their people £100 billion.

You need to remember that is £100 Billion divided between twenty seven countries. So it will have far less impact on them than it will on us. 

These so called negotiations have been a complete charade and waste of money, as Cummings Johnson and Frost have had no intention of reaching a deal with the EU.

And the past week as been pure theatre just to try and make Johnson look important in the World. He is just a minnow who is on a narcissistic crusade, where he and his cohorts will eventually go down in history as the government who broke this country.

 

[jrs 2,294]

40 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

NOT sure anyone said the EU would roll over. Or that they have more to lose. The point is not who has the most to lose, it's not a contest, but a fact that many EU countries and industries will be worse off with no deal. 

Of course no deal was avoidable. 

I think you need to go back and read the posts thoroughly from the beginning of this thread and you find lots of examples of the UK will have the upper hand in posts and they need us more than we need them.

What has become obvious is that from the start Sir Humph has been correct in his posts about the dire situation that the UK would find itself in. 

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

7 minutes ago, jrs said:

You need to remember that is £100 Billion divided between twenty seven countries. So it will have far less impact on them than it will on us. 

 

BUT not divided equally ... Germany the big loser (cars, white goods, etc)

 

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

4 minutes ago, jrs said:

I think you need to go back and read the posts thoroughly from the beginning of this thread and you find lots of examples of the UK will have the upper hand in posts and they need us more than we need them.

What has become obvious is that from the start Sir Humph has been correct in his posts about the dire situation that the UK would find itself in. 

THE simple fact is that no one knows... economic forecasts are notoriously unreliable and Covid is still going to be around. Who knows what this thread will be like in 12 months time...

[E I Addio 13,306]

7 minutes ago, jrs said:

 

These so called negotiations have been a complete charade and waste of money, as Cummings Johnson and Frost have had no intention of reaching a deal with the EU.

 

 

Does that mean you think May and Ivan Rogers did have an intention of reaching a deal ( other than a bad one )?  If yes, they didn’t do a very good job of it , if no then they are as culpable as you say Johnson is. In either case we just as well have walked out with no deal on Day 1

[iris123 12,045]

2 hours ago, DC2 said:

What do you mean?

Other than reducing command centres and sharing costs you’re talking gibberish.

That is still not an argument for an EU army.  

It would be far easier and more respectful of sovereignty for financial payments to be made to subsidise those countries that have a larger length of EU border and they in turn can share command centres if they wish with adjoining countries.

Just inform yourself on a topic rather than go on with only some strange opinion about something based in no reality. Rather like your self sufficiency plan more than likely from what I see, based on phloppy’s bull that he needs of nothing from nobody

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/security/20190612STO54310/eu-army-myth-what-is-europe-really-doing-to-boost-defence

[DC2 9,361]

1 minute ago, iris123 said:

Just inform yourself on a topic rather than go on with only some strange opinion about something based in no reality. Rather like your self sufficiency plan more than likely from what I see, based on phloppy’s bull that he needs of nothing from nobody

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/security/20190612STO54310/eu-army-myth-what-is-europe-really-doing-to-boost-defence

Lol

The first line of your article is sufficient to prove my point:

“While there is no EU army and defence remains exclusively a matter for member states ..”

Enough said.

[The Third Man 1,355]

1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

NOT sure anyone said the EU would roll over. Or that they have more to lose. The point is not who has the most to lose, it's not a contest, but a fact that many EU countries and industries will be worse off with no deal. 

Of course no deal was avoidable. 

you didn't listen before the referendum then, or before last years election, oven ready deal springs to mind, and i heard on numerous occasions that they traded more with us than we did  so they need us more than we need them, that the German car manufacturers will never allow a no deal etc etc etc

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

4 minutes ago, The Third Man said:

you didn't listen before the referendum then, or before last years election, oven ready deal springs to mind, and i heard on numerous occasions that they traded more with us than we did  so they need us more than we need them, that the German car manufacturers will never allow a no deal etc etc etc

WOULDN'T interpret any of that as "rolling over."

[OveFundinFan 3,511]

Is it not a game of who blinks first going on at the moment. Since Thursday it seems the EU has cut means of communication between the UK and individual countries in the EU, we are told so the UK cannot curry favour with any individual country ie Germany of France. So who is the first to crack, UK or EU? I reckon rhere will be more then a few sqeaky bums between now and Sundy night deadline.  A lot more time between now and the 31st Dec, more time to come to some deal I reckon.

If the EU import less from UK then they export to UK, and tariifs have to be paid, UK should be quids in. Enough to give money to those UK companies that are paying tarrifs. Surely.